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  • Re: The False Prophet

    Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
    We are currently in the 7th head stage. The 8th is still coming.

    Rome is the 4th and final beast.

    But this has to co-incide with the 6th, 7th and 8th kings
    This indicates 3 stages of Rome, we can find these 3 stages in Dan 2:
    Iron legs, two feet, ten toes.

    The iron legs stage is complete. We are currently in the two feet stage, EU/Rome and Turkey/Istanbul.

    The antichrist will arise during the ten horns /ten toes stage.
    He is an 8th is only speaking about Apollyon being the King of the Bottomless Pit, he is OF THE SEVEN tells you can be no 8th, because only a Demon can be of the 7 and no Demon Kingdom is set up as an 8th Kingdom per se, we see that by the HE WAS.....OF....THE 7. You are confusing the riddle of him being an 8th King with there being 8 Kingdoms, thats just not the case, else the Beast of the Sea would have had 8 Heads. {Satan is a KING Also, but there is no 9th Kingdom !! See my point? Its just a part of God's riddle, he confuses the world with His beautiful prose.}

    Rome is the 4th Beast Daniel was shown, there was no need in Gabriel/God confusing people when pointing forward via PAST Beasts. But John was looking back in time, from the Last Beast to the first Beast, so he was shown all 7. There are actually 5 Beasts in Daniel, the Little Horn is CLEARLY DESCRIBED as a Beast in Dan. 7:11 all unto himself.

    So we had Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome { the 7 Headed FIGURATIVE Beast John saw was now Wounded, the Church Age placed the Wound} and there could also be NO BEAST because there was NO Israel in the land to Beast over. God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones, there was as nothing unto God for nigh 2000 years until 1948. That is why the Brits were not a Beast, nor were the Muslims/Ottoman Empire.

    The Last Beast only reemerges when the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region to be REBORN as a Beast in the LIKENESS of Rome in that it will look exactly like old Rome on the map and power will be BASED in Europe like Rome was. The 10 toes can mean the COMPLETE NUMBER of Kings of the Region. The Anti-Christ thus ARISES from the E.U. which stands for the 10 toes as we speak.

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    • Re: The False Prophet

      Originally posted by divaD View Post
      This is where Premil explains this part. This is meaning once the little horn is given to the burning flame. And if that is meaning the same beast we see getting cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, that means verse 12 above has to be fulfilled during a time post the 2nd coming. There is only one thing, and one thing only, that could possibly explain that. That being the thousand years and satan's little season.
      That's if you assume verse 12 follows verse 11 in events. But when you read the text you should be able to recognize this is not the case. "as concerning" refers back to other subjects thus the timing logically would also. So verse 12 does not follow verse 11 in a timeline.

      11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
      12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time

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      • Re: The False Prophet

        Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
        That's if you assume verse 12 follows verse 11 in events. But when you read the text you should be able to recognize this is not the case. "as concerning" refers back to other subjects thus the timing logically would also. So verse 12 does not follow verse 11 in a timeline.

        11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
        12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time
        Let's think this through for a moment though. Verse 11 does not include those in verse 12 as also being given to the burning flame at the time. Because if it did, there would be no need for verse 12, and that verse 11 would have simply indicated the horn, plus the rest of the beasts, they were given to the burning flame. And this is similar logic one should apply in Rev 19 as well, instead of where some think satan is cast into the LOF in that chapter. Yet it never mentions satan one single time in that chapter.

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        • Re: The False Prophet

          Originally posted by divaD View Post
          Let's think this through for a moment though. Verse 11 does not include those in verse 12 as also being given to the burning flame at the time. Because if it did, there would be no need for verse 12, and that verse 11 would have simply indicated the horn, plus the rest of the beasts, they were given to the burning flame. And this is similar logic one should apply in Rev 19 as well, instead of where some think satan is cast into the LOF in that chapter. Yet it never mentions satan one single time in that chapter.
          So you really think the little horn is thrown into the fire then after that there is 1000 literal years? Is not verse 9 the GWT?

          9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
          10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

          11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
          12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:

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          • Re: The False Prophet

            Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
            So you really think the little horn is thrown into the fire then after that there is 1000 literal years? Is not verse 9 the GWT?

            9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
            10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

            11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
            12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
            Verse 9 is meaning during the time of Rev 20:4. Verse 9 is meaning the 2nd coming. Verse 9 is meaning verse 22 in Dan 7. And notice what just preceded verse 22.

            Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

            This speaks of the 42 month reign of the beast in Rev 13.

            Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

            In verse 22, once the Ancient of days came, judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom....which is also what we see happening in Rev 20:4 at the time. But even if you want to ignore all of that, verse 12 in Dan 7 is still meaning chronologically after verse 11, where one then has to explain the rest of the beasts lives being prolonged post the horn being given to the burning flame. And if that part is meaning Rev 19:20, this indicates verse 12 in Dan 7 is meaning after verse 20 in Rev 19. IOW, the thousand years and satan's little season are post the 2nd coming, and not in this age instead.

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            • Re: The False Prophet

              Originally posted by divaD View Post
              Verse 9 is meaning during the time of Rev 20:4. Verse 9 is meaning the 2nd coming. Verse 9 is meaning verse 22 in Dan 7
              .

              Is not also verse 9 the same as verse 26?

              9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

              26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
              27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

              We see the saints inherit not a temporal but everlasting kingdom.

              So then with verse 9 and 26 the same how could still three other beasts remain for a season and a time?

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              • Re: The False Prophet

                Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                So you really think the little horn is thrown into the fire then after that there is 1000 literal years? Is not verse 9 the GWT?

                9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
                10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

                11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
                12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:
                The only way I can see you being correct here, Dan 7:11 does not involve the 2nd coming, but is referring to something that already occurred a long time ago. In a case like that, your position would make sense, in regards to the rest of the beasts in verse 12. But if verse 11 instead involves the 2nd coming, your position does not make sense if it denies a thousand years and a little season post once the horn is given to the burning flame, in order to fulfill verse 12.

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                • Re: The False Prophet

                  Originally posted by ross3421 View Post

                  So then with verse 9 and 26 the same how could still three other beasts remain for a season and a time?
                  I haven't really considered verse 26, so I need time to think on it. But in the meantime, there is still verse 12, and it appears to chronologically follow verse 11.

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                  • Re: The False Prophet

                    Originally posted by divaD View Post
                    The only way I can see you being correct here, Dan 7:11 does not involve the 2nd coming, but is referring to something that already occurred a long time ago. In a case like that, your position would make sense, in regards to the rest of the beasts in verse 12. But if verse 11 instead involves the 2nd coming, your position does not make sense if it denies a thousand years and a little season post once the horn is given to the burning flame, in order to fulfill verse 12.
                    Let's try another approach. You know this is for me trying to prove a man innocent as the man is already found guilty by the masses.

                    The other beasts in Rev 13 have become "part of" the fourth beast. So if the fourth beast is thrown into the LOF would not it's feet and mouth?

                    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
                    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

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                    • Re: The False Prophet

                      Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                      Let's try another approach. You know this is for me trying to prove a man innocent as the man is already found guilty by the masses.

                      The other beasts in Rev 13 are "part of" the fourth beast. So if the fourth beast is thrown into the LOF would not it's feet and mouth?

                      1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
                      2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
                      I for sure get your logic, since that does make sense. Yet it still doesn't explain why their lives are prolonged after the horn is given to the burning flame. Why do we even need to know this at that point if the rest of these beasts were given to the burning flame as well? And another thing, if only one beast in Rev 13, why does it call these in verse 12 the rest of the beasts, as in more than one beast? It doesn't say the rest of the beast, their lives were prolonged, it says beasts.

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                      • Re: The False Prophet

                        Originally posted by divaD View Post
                        Yet it still doesn't explain why their lives are prolonged after the horn is given to the burning flame. Why do we even need to know this at that point if the rest of these beasts were given to the burning flame as well? And another thing, if only one beast in Rev 13, why does it call these in verse 12 the rest of the beasts, as in more than one beast? It doesn't say the rest of the beast, their lives were prolonged, it says beasts.
                        12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, [they had their dominion taken away]: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

                        So let's examine the verse a bit closer. We see two details, 1. Dominion taken away and 2. Lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

                        So what prevents the other beasts lives coincide with the ending of the fourth beast. Thus what prevents them from being thrown into the LOF together.?

                        I think your stuck on the word "prolonged". Which you take to mean afterwards. Not the case

                        The four beast rise up together -
                        Dominion take away from other beasts BUT their lives did not end just prolonged. How long prolonged? Till the beast is cast into the fire
                        Then the beast is cast into the fire. Which would be all four of them as after the dominion was taken away they become one..

                        So the text is saying YET they had their dominion taken away (by the fourth beast) they did not die at this point but lives were prolonged with the fourth beast. Thus when the fourth beast is cast into the fire so too are the others!

                        You got it? The mind plays tricks and slants to a certain desired outcome with preconceived notions.

                        So let's read it again.....

                        11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
                        12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away (by the beast): yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time (until when? 1000 year later? of course not until the beast himself is slain).

                        Comment


                        • Re: The False Prophet

                          John says,

                          Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn.4:1-3

                          The false prophet says that the Messiah hasn't come in the flesh because of unfulfilled OT prophecy. The false prophet points to how the OT says the Messiah will defeat the enemies of God's people and how Jesus didn't do that. The false prophet claims the Messiah will do this in the future.
                          The false prophet will ignore who the enemy really is. The false prophet will ignore the battle Jesus fought and won and how God's people conquer the enemy by the Messiahs Spirit.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The False Prophet

                            Originally posted by divaD View Post
                            Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
                            8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
                            9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
                            10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
                            11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
                            12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
                            13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


                            and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition

                            And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
                            ------------------------------------------------

                            And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

                            five are fallen....the beast that was, meaning during the times of the five that have fallen.

                            and one is....and is not, meaning during the time of one is.

                            and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space....even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition, meaning during the time of the other that is not yet come.
                            --------------------------------------------

                            So how can he be the eighth, and is of the seven? I still haven't figured that out. Maybe the following is a clue?

                            Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

                            Or if not that, maybe it has something to do with there being two key players in Rev 13 rather than one? The two key players being the beast and the fp.
                            Good suggestion at the end, I believe the 7th and the 8th are the two main players in the end. The 7th still exists during the reign of the 8th. But the 8th... Being of the 7th is the dominant leader in the Middle East.

                            There is the Roman beast which ruled since the fall of the 4 Greek kingdoms, which is different to the beast that comes out the pit to rule the same ten horn empire at the end. I believe at that point the ancient Roman beast takes a secondary more religious supportive role from the two ancient capitals of Rome. (two cities = two horns like a lamb.)

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                            • Re: The False Prophet

                              Originally posted by ross3421 View Post
                              12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, [they had their dominion taken away]: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

                              So let's examine the verse a bit closer. We see two details, 1. Dominion taken away and 2. Lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

                              So what prevents the other beasts lives coincide with the ending of the fourth beast. Thus what prevents them from being thrown into the LOF together.?

                              I think your stuck on the word "prolonged". Which you take to mean afterwards. Not the case

                              The four beast rise up together -
                              Dominion take away from other beasts BUT their lives did not end just prolonged. How long prolonged? Till the beast is cast into the fire
                              Then the beast is cast into the fire. Which would be all four of them as after the dominion was taken away they become one..

                              So the text is saying YET they had their dominion taken away (by the fourth beast) they did not die at this point but lives were prolonged with the fourth beast. Thus when the fourth beast is cast into the fire so too are the others!

                              You got it? The mind plays tricks and slants to a certain desired outcome with preconceived notions.

                              So let's read it again.....

                              11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
                              12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away (by the beast): yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time (until when? 1000 year later? of course not until the beast himself is slain).
                              Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

                              This is key to understanding verse 12 IMO. This verse says...and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

                              Daniel 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

                              Verse 27 is meaning after the horn is given to the burning flame. Verse 27....And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High...is pretty much what we see taking place in verse 22, which would also be meaning after the horn is given to the burning flame...and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom(verse 22).

                              It seems to me, verse 27...and all dominions shall serve and obey him...this would be one reason why the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time....in order to serve and obey Him during the ruling with a rod of iron phase during the thousand years. And since these wouldn't be immortals, the fact immortals don't need their lives prolonged for a season and time, but mortals would, they are then tested after the thousand years during satan's little season. Do they want to continue serving and obeying Him, or do they want to rebel instead?

                              We can get a glimpse of the ruling with a rod of iron phase, via a passage such as Zech 14:16-19. And we can see from that why there might be a rebellion after the ruling with a rod of iron phase. It looks like some might not want to come up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And if they don't, there will be punishments. So not hard to picture a rebellion after this.

                              You might argue that it doesn't look like some of these are exactly serving and obeying Him to begin with if they refuse to come up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. Maybe that's the case in the beginning, that some might refuse to do this, but since a thousand years are a long time, they all might eventually see it His way and not want to endure any more of the punishments. But then when satan is loosed, it turns out they never really saw it His way after all, since they decide to rebel instead, once satan deceives them into thinking they can actually overthrow Christ and His saints one world government governing the planet.

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                              • Re: The False Prophet

                                Originally posted by journeyman View Post
                                John says,

                                Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn.4:1-3

                                The false prophet says that the Messiah hasn't come in the flesh because of unfulfilled OT prophecy. The false prophet points to how the OT says the Messiah will defeat the enemies of God's people and how Jesus didn't do that. The false prophet claims the Messiah will do this in the future.
                                The false prophet will ignore who the enemy really is. The false prophet will ignore the battle Jesus fought and won and how God's people conquer the enemy by the Messiahs Spirit.
                                Yes how true I agree and John was talking about apostate Israel in his day

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