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  • The False Prophet

    So I don't derail other threads, Ive noticed a lot of views concerning who the False prophet is and to what his role entails. Ive noticed everyone including myself applies how they see the beasts, and their eschatology into their viewpoint, obviously if someone has a view that is wrong maybe others can point out an overlooked contradiction and help reshape our views. So who and what is the false prophet?

    I for one have the first beast being both the Antichrist andthe false prophet, although I see the AC becoming the FP, let me explain.

    Jesus Christ is the Messiah and our saviour He came into our world and was rejected by mankind as the prophesied King and Messiah, yet mankind will accept one of their own to represent himself.
    John 5:43 says, I have come in my Father's name, and you donot accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

    This is in contrast to the prophet who God will use to represent Himself.

    In Deut 18 we read ďThe Lord your God will raise up for youa prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hearĒ

    This is a prophecy concerning Christ, the true prophet raised up as a man who will speak with fullness the Words of God.

    Christ performed signs to prove that He was the prophet to come, Moses set the template he performed signs to show Israel he was sent by God with the Word of God, for example one of the signs Moses performed was his authority over the serpent after Aarons rod ate the serpents that pharaoh had ordered thrown down, Moses then took the rod which was a serpent into his hand. Along with showing authority over the serpents other signs and miracles did Christ perform to show he was indeed the Prophet.

    My whole point here is some man is going to come and present himself as the saviour of the world, and mankind will accept him in place of Christ and by definition is the Antichrist and will be over the world. (at the beginning,as a figure head or ruler??) Part of being the Saviour, Christ is to be able to perform signs to authenticate that one is indeed sent from God, hence the need for Antichrist to prove he is the prophet


    I see the first beast that rises out of the sea, as rising up from among men therefore I see the first beast as the Antichrist.

    Rev 13:1 and I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    I pretty much follow the more traditional view here, that as the world leader he will be the seventh, starting with Pharaoh as number one throughout the empires till now.

    13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: andthe dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

    Again I go with pretty much the more common viewpoint, theworld empire will have aspects from the Babylonian, the speed of the Grecian, morestronger etc. etc. with all these previous aspects mixed in.

    Rev 13:3-5 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded todeath; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after thebeast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to makewar with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

    This is where I have the second beast come into play, The Antichrist seems to be fatally wounded, and he appears to be healed, there appears to be miraculous deception and the AC is now more accepted, This is where I believe the AC now evolves into the false prophet, he is given ability to perform great signs by the second beast, to deceive the whole earth, thus he now fulfils the signs of the prophet to come.

    The second beast is Satan, these are the corresponding verses that show this.

    2Thes 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and sot hat all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Rev 13:11-14 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on theearth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight ofthe beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


    Without going into more detail at the moment, Its probably already obvious to some that the FP continues for another 42 months so yes I do see the role of AC as in the first halfof the 7 year period, who now is also the FP empowered by the second beast inthe second half.

  • #2
    Re: The False Prophet

    Originally posted by boangry View Post
    So I don't derail other threads, Ive noticed a lot of views concerning who the False prophet is and to what his role entails. Ive noticed everyone including myself applies how they see the beasts, and their eschatology into their viewpoint, obviously if someone has a view that is wrong maybe others can point out an overlooked contradiction and help reshape our views. So who and what is the false prophet?

    ...
    We have little information as to his identity. Here is what I saw from Revelation 13;
    • Verse 11 says "AN-Other" Beast. This makes him an individual and the second of two Beasts
    • Verse 11 says that he comes out of the "earth". The first Beast came out of the "sea" (v.1). In typology, the sea speaks of the nations. Israel is also a nation but called "sand" (of the sea-shore). Thus, the Second beast is a Jew

    Now, the question is, why does the Gentile Beast need a Jewish Beast. The answer is that the Beast's ambition is to set himself up in a Temple in Jerusalem and divert all worship to himself as if he were Messiah-Emmanuel. But the Law of Moses is quite clear. Him being a Gentile, he would not get ice in winter from Israel. Any relations with a member of the Gentiles is strictly forbidden, never mind a Gentile in the Holy Place. A powerful and charismatic Israelite, capable of doing wonders, would go a long way to liaise the Beast when he "confirmed the Covenant" with Israel as per Daniel Chapter 9. And in his final putsch to be worshiped as God in the holy of Holies in a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, the first Beast would find a powerful Jewish Beast invaluable.

    But now we must venture into unsure ground. Who is the second Beast? We only have one hint, and no doctrine can be established on one scripture. So we must humbly point out the evidence but take no stand. The First Beast is obviously Nero who was resurrected out of time. The Second Beast might be Judas Iscariot. The hint of proof is this. Both the First and the Second Beast go to the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is used interchangeably with the word "perdition". So the First Beast is called the "SON OF PERDITION" (2nd Thess.2:3). He is most probably called this because the Lake of Fire was made for the Devil and his angels, but the first one into the Lake of Fire is a MAN - the First Beast. Satan only enters the Lake of Fire 1,000 years later. And along with the First Beast, as he is cast into "perdition", is the Second Beast (Rev.19:20). And our Lord Jesus called only ONE MAN "the son of perdition" - JUDAS ISCARIOT!

    John 17:12 informs us; "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." Judas Iscariot was meant.



    Revelation 13:11-17 (KJV)
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The False Prophet

      It's as I said in the other thread: Rev 16.13; 19.20; 20.10. These seem to show 2 men--not an empire and a man. If the beast are presented as 2 men *together,* then they cannot be the *same man!*

      The "wounding" of the Beast refers, I think, to the empire over which Antichrist will reign. It is an empire with roots in the old Roman Empire. And it was at that time that Christ died on the cross, thus "wounding" both Satan and the Beast/Empire.

      The Christian conversion of the Empire has prevented it from issuing forth the Antichrist. The revelation of Antichrist himself has awaited the apostasy of Christianity, leading to a breakup in the unity of the Empire, ultimately leading to a reuniting of that Empire under the Antichrist.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The False Prophet

        Originally posted by Walls View Post
        We have little information as to his identity. Here is what I saw from Revelation 13;
        • Verse 11 says "AN-Other" Beast. This makes him an individual and the second of two Beasts
        • Verse 11 says that he comes out of the "earth". The first Beast came out of the "sea" (v.1). In typology, the sea speaks of the nations. Israel is also a nation but called "sand" (of the sea-shore). Thus, the Second beast is a Jew

        Now, the question is, why does the Gentile Beast need a Jewish Beast. The answer is that the Beast's ambition is to set himself up in a Temple in Jerusalem and divert all worship to himself as if he were Messiah-Emmanuel. But the Law of Moses is quite clear. Him being a Gentile, he would not get ice in winter from Israel. Any relations with a member of the Gentiles is strictly forbidden, never mind a Gentile in the Holy Place. A powerful and charismatic Israelite, capable of doing wonders, would go a long way to liaise the Beast when he "confirmed the Covenant" with Israel as per Daniel Chapter 9. And in his final putsch to be worshiped as God in the holy of Holies in a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, the first Beast would find a powerful Jewish Beast invaluable.
        Thanks for your take, Walls. I am surprised I can still come to the site, I always get a server is busy page, right when im about to join in and discuss lol, so if I disappear for a day or two, its not my intention.

        I too see the sea as a type of nations or gentiles although there is an argument for it representing all peoples.

        For the second beast I presume you are referring to Hos_1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea.

        I do think itís a big step to make the sand here a picture of the earth, as its simply giving a picture of how populous Israelites will be. For I see the first beast the AC as an Israelite even if he isnít at first accepted as one.

        Also I donít see that the AC must be from Israel, although I believe he must be Jewish I actually see that he must also be from Egypt with Jewish ancestry, my reasoning is simply the prophet Moses was a prince of Egypt, and then when he fled he went to Midian, and 40yrs later returned to Egypt to rescue Israel at Gods command, Again the parallel is seen with Christ he also fled to Eygpt as a babe after the execution of babes was ordered. Anyway all im thinking is that the AC/FP must be both Jewish and gentile if that even makes senseÖ






        But now we must venture into unsure ground. Who is the second Beast? We only have one hint, and no doctrine can be established on one scripture. So we must humbly point out the evidence but take no stand. The First Beast is obviously Nero who was resurrected out of time. The Second Beast might be Judas Iscariot. The hint of proof is this. Both the First and the Second Beast go to the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is used interchangeably with the word "perdition". So the First Beast is called the "SON OF PERDITION" (2nd Thess.2:3). He is most probably called this because the Lake of Fire was made for the Devil and his angels, but the first one into the Lake of Fire is a MAN - the First Beast. Satan only enters the Lake of Fire 1,000 years later. And along with the First Beast, as he is cast into "perdition", is the Second Beast (Rev.19:20). And our Lord Jesus called only ONE MAN "the son of perdition" - JUDAS ISCARIOT!

        John 17:12 informs us; "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." Judas Iscariot was meant.
        I see what you mean about venturing into unsure ground, Ive never heard anything like this before :-)

        The first question must be and you've already pointed out what appears to be the apparent contradiction, the first beast is referred to as the son of perdition in scripture, yet you say the second beast is also the son of perdition and could therefore be Judas, so Im wondering why you have two sons of perdition? or conversely why don't you just make the first beast Judas?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The False Prophet

          Originally posted by randyk View Post
          It's as I said in the other thread: Rev 16.13; 19.20; 20.10. These seem to show 2 men--not an empire and a man. If the beast are presented as 2 men *together,* then they cannot be the *same man!*
          I could be misunderstanding you here, But I see Jesus as one man, yet He is both the true Prophet and the true Christ, I see the man of sin to also be both the false prophet and the false Christ.

          The "wounding" of the Beast refers, I think, to the empire over which Antichrist will reign. It is an empire with roots in the old Roman Empire. And it was at that time that Christ died on the cross, thus "wounding" both Satan and the Beast/Empire.
          I can see how that could be possible, but for me it doesn't quite tie in with why people will marvel after the beast at the wounding of the head, also just to me if it was mortal wound that appears miraculously healed, it lends into the miraculous ability the FP will have to delude the world.

          The Christian conversion of the Empire has prevented it from issuing forth the Antichrist. The revelation of Antichrist himself has awaited the apostasy of Christianity, leading to a breakup in the unity of the Empire, ultimately leading to a reuniting of that Empire under the Antichrist.
          I see apostate Christianity throughout our Church history, I think many antichrists have already come, and many false prophets have already come and gone, I also see it starting off small and coming to a big crescendo that will make way for the ultimate AC, the world seems to be changing and moving so fast, that they are building one massive broad road that everyone can hop on and travel on at their hearts content :-(

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The False Prophet

            boangry,
            A big clue to who the false prophet will be, is where the false prophet ends up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The False Prophet

              Originally posted by journeyman View Post
              boangry,
              A big clue to who the false prophet will be, is where the false prophet ends up.
              Ok, I don't mind drawing the dots, The FP ends up being cast into the LoF alive, along with the beast. One of the reasons I have the FP as the first beast is that we are told the second beast causes all those on earth to worship the first beast. REV 13:12b "And causes the earth and all those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed"

              Also one of these beasts rises up out of the bottomless pit, Rev 17:8 "The beast you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition(destruction)

              Which beast is this?

              The lawless one also known as the Antichrist, also is according to the working of Satan, 2thes 2:9.My viewpoint also has the first beast as the Antichrist, who also is according to the power of the second beast, also with the first beast the dragon gave him his power, his throne and great authority Rev 13:2b Also the second beast exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence.

              Are these the dots I should be drawing lines too?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The False Prophet

                Originally posted by boangry View Post
                I could be misunderstanding you here, But I see Jesus as one man, yet He is both the true Prophet and the true Christ, I see the man of sin to also be both the false prophet and the false Christ.
                Yes, the verses I gave you show the Beast and the Prophet as 2 separate men, two people in one place. Jesus never appeared as 2 people in one place.

                Originally posted by boangry
                I can see how that could be possible, but for me it doesn't quite tie in with why people will marvel after the beast at the wounding of the head, also just to me if it was mortal wound that appears miraculously healed, it lends into the miraculous ability the FP will have to delude the world.
                True, this is just a theory of mine--not an argument. I've pondered over it for years. But I've settled on this, if only for now, because I look back on the story as if it was from the beginning in Genesis, where God said the head of the serpent would be bruised, or wounded.

                That's why I see Christ and his cross as being the "wounding" of the Beast. And it was after Christ died that the Empire was wounded and eventually deteriorated, becoming 1st a Christian Empire, and then a defeated Rome, until Rome was revived under the Holy Roman Empire. In our day that Empire has divided into a number of European states. And this seems exactly as Dan 7 depicted it.

                Originally posted by boangry
                I see apostate Christianity throughout our Church history, I think many antichrists have already come, and many false prophets have already come and gone, I also see it starting off small and coming to a big crescendo that will make way for the ultimate AC, the world seems to be changing and moving so fast, that they are building one massive broad road that everyone can hop on and travel on at their hearts content :-(
                I'm with you, brother.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The False Prophet

                  Originally posted by boangry View Post
                  Ok, I don't mind drawing the dots, The FP ends up being cast into the LoF alive, along with the beast. One of the reasons I have the FP as the first beast is that we are told the second beast causes all those on earth to worship the first beast. REV 13:12b "And causes the earth and all those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed"

                  Also one of these beasts rises up out of the bottomless pit, Rev 17:8 "The beast you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition(destruction)

                  Which beast is this?

                  The lawless one also known as the Antichrist, also is according to the working of Satan, 2thes 2:9.My viewpoint also has the first beast as the Antichrist, who also is according to the power of the second beast, also with the first beast the dragon gave him his power, his throne and great authority Rev 13:2b Also the second beast exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence.

                  Are these the dots I should be drawing lines too?
                  A Beast is in the place of an ANIMAL that DOMINATES. Satan the Dragon is the designate of Rev. 12 Dominion. HE DOMINATES the Mediterranean Sea Region's Powers !! He this BEASTS over them. The 7th Head that a Crown is on is the Rev. 13 Beast...........the crowns in Rev. 13 are on the 10 Horns/Kings he is over, this is the Little Horn/A.C./Beast, he dominates the MSR also and maybe the whole world, we know he kills 2 billion people, that is a DOMINANT MAN !! The Rev. 17 Scarlet Colored Beast is a Demon named Apollyon, he has been locked up in there Pit for nigh 2000 years, by God no doubt. He was a Demon placed over the MSR by Satan, Israel called him the DESTROYER, his job down through history was to destroy the Jews/Israel. He BEASTED over the 6 Heads {HE WAS}.................was placed in the pit {WAS NOT}..........and he will be released at the 1st woe and kill the Two-witnesses {HE YET IS}. He was the prince of Persia who resisted Micheal for 21 days in Daniel ch. 10.

                  The 2nd Beast of Rev. 13 is not a Government Beast nor is he a Demon like the Dragon or Scarlet Colored Beast, he is a RELIGIOUS BEAST !! The Anti-Christ/Beast Man designates him {A Jewish High Priest} to be ALL POWERFUL over ALL RELIGION. So much so that the 10 Kings in Rev. 17:16 KILL OFF the Harlot {All False Religion} because this FALSE PROPHET or Religious Beast will Demand Beast worship or death !! Thus Islam is killed off, Buddhism is killed off etc. etc. They chase the Jews into the Wilderness and kill the Remnant Gentile Church {Martyrs under the 5th Seal}.

                  Now we had this same DUO {TYPE} in History, Antiochus and Jason the High Priest who demanded the Jews become Hellenized, Antiochus defiled the Temple. Why do people think we get such a detailed history of the Greek Kings in chapter 11 ? Rev. 7 says he must Arise out of the Fourth Beast. Rev. 8 says the same Little Horn arises out of one of the Four Generals Kingdoms. We have to COMBINE these two to get the answer, the Little Horn/A.C./Beast ARISES out of both at the same time, because Greece is in the E.U. none of the others are in the E.U. so it can only be Greece. Then we understand chapter 11's detail, Dan. 21-33 is the LOOK at what the Anti-Christ will be like in verses 36-45.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The False Prophet

                    Originally posted by boangry View Post
                    Thanks for your take, Walls. I am surprised I can still come to the site, I always get a server is busy page, right when im about to join in and discuss lol, so if I disappear for a day or two, its not my intention.

                    I too see the sea as a type of nations or gentiles although there is an argument for it representing all peoples.

                    For the second beast I presume you are referring to Hos_1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea.

                    I do think itís a big step to make the sand here a picture of the earth, as its simply giving a picture of how populous Israelites will be. For I see the first beast the AC as an Israelite even if he isnít at first accepted as one.

                    Also I donít see that the AC must be from Israel, although I believe he must be Jewish I actually see that he must also be from Egypt with Jewish ancestry, my reasoning is simply the prophet Moses was a prince of Egypt, and then when he fled he went to Midian, and 40yrs later returned to Egypt to rescue Israel at Gods command, Again the parallel is seen with Christ he also fled to Eygpt as a babe after the execution of babes was ordered. Anyway all im thinking is that the AC/FP must be both Jewish and gentile if that even makes senseÖ








                    I see what you mean about venturing into unsure ground, Ive never heard anything like this before :-)

                    The first question must be and you've already pointed out what appears to be the apparent contradiction, the first beast is referred to as the son of perdition in scripture, yet you say the second beast is also the son of perdition and could therefore be Judas, so Im wondering why you have two sons of perdition? or conversely why don't you just make the first beast Judas?
                    No contest. Your take on the Second Beast is just as valid as mine.

                    We have little or no information to even contend with. As to being the "son of perdition", what is established is that the Holy Spirit called the First Beast "son of perdition" in 2nd Thessalonians 2. And our Lord Jesus called Judas Iscariot "son of perdition". BOTH are called this, but they are different men. As I said in my first posting, one mention of anything is inadequate to form doctrine. So I do not insist on anything. But the student of the Bible who trusts the magnificent mind of God, takes every little indication FOR HIMSELF. God planned and wrote "son of perdition" for BOTH men. For me it is significant but not enough to contend with. It is just like the genealogy of Jesus. Several woman are named, but Bathsheba is not named. She is called "the wife of Uriah". Why? I cannot positively tell. But to me it is significant, and the significance is that God greatly disapproved of what Bathsheba did with David.

                    This is even more significant when one appreciates the status of the other women WHO WERE NAMED. One a Canaanitess (or unknown origin) who seduced her father-in-law, another a gentile prostitute from a cursed city, another a Moabitess who was not supposed to enter the ranks of Israel till the tenth generation. Yet God deals them a measure of fame by naming them. Bathsheba not. Makes one think hey brother?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The False Prophet

                      Originally posted by boangry View Post
                      So I don't derail other threads, Ive noticed a lot of views concerning who the False prophet is and to what his role entails. Ive noticed everyone including myself applies how they see the beasts, and their eschatology into their viewpoint, obviously if someone has a view that is wrong maybe others can point out an overlooked contradiction and help reshape our views. So who and what is the false prophet?

                      I for one have the first beast being both the Antichrist andthe false prophet, although I see the AC becoming the FP, let me explain.
                      The two beasts exist at the same time, the second beast supporting the first beast, so they cannot be the same entity.

                      FIRST Beast: A beast represents a kingdom, the first beast is a kingdom with 10 horns, and then is given a boastful mouth. At that moment, Rev 13:5, when the beast is given a mouth, many of the events match the antichrist of 2 Thess 2, and /or the little horn of Dan 7. The FIRST Beast when given a mouth, is the antichrist.

                      SECOND Beast: you will notice in Dan 7 and Dan 8, horns represent the relative extent of an empire. The second beast has two tiny horns, meaning two tiny locations, but context shows it has vast religious influence over the world. Knowing that the final empire is still Rome, these two tiny locations with vast religious influence should be connected to Rome.
                      The most likely two tiny locations that fit this description are the Vatican in Rome, and Caliphate in Istanbul. These two locations have authority over the two biggest religions on earth, and are based in the two old Capitals of the Roman Empire.

                      The FP beast is the unity of the two old capitals of Rome and Istanbul as they unite to support the revealing of antichrist.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The False Prophet

                        Originally posted by boangry View Post
                        Ok, I don't mind drawing the dots, The FP ends up being cast into the LoF alive, along with the beast. One of the reasons I have the FP as the first beast is that we are told the second beast causes all those on earth to worship the first beast. REV 13:12b "And causes the earth and all those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed"

                        Also one of these beasts rises up out of the bottomless pit, Rev 17:8 "The beast you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition(destruction)

                        Which beast is this?

                        The lawless one also known as the Antichrist, also is according to the working of Satan, 2thes 2:9.My viewpoint also has the first beast as the Antichrist, who also is according to the power of the second beast, also with the first beast the dragon gave him his power, his throne and great authority Rev 13:2b Also the second beast exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence.

                        Are these the dots I should be drawing lines too?
                        Yes, but there are billions of dots, so instead of writers cramp, your perception that,
                        I see apostate Christianity throughout our Church history, I think many antichrists have already come, and many false prophets have already come and gone, I also see it starting off small and coming to a big crescendo that will make way for the ultimate AC
                        is the way the man of sin is known.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The False Prophet

                          Originally posted by boangry View Post
                          So I don't derail other threads, Ive noticed a lot of views concerning who the False prophet is and to what his role entails. Ive noticed everyone including myself applies how they see the beasts, and their eschatology into their viewpoint, obviously if someone has a view that is wrong maybe others can point out an overlooked contradiction and help reshape our views. So who and what is the false prophet?

                          I for one have the first beast being both the Antichrist andthe false prophet, although I see the AC becoming the FP, let me explain.

                          Jesus Christ is the Messiah and our saviour He came into our world and was rejected by mankind as the prophesied King and Messiah, yet mankind will accept one of their own to represent himself.
                          John 5:43 says, I have come in my Father's name, and you donot accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

                          This is in contrast to the prophet who God will use to represent Himself.

                          In Deut 18 we read ďThe Lord your God will raise up for youa prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hearĒ

                          This is a prophecy concerning Christ, the true prophet raised up as a man who will speak with fullness the Words of God.

                          Christ performed signs to prove that He was the prophet to come, Moses set the template he performed signs to show Israel he was sent by God with the Word of God, for example one of the signs Moses performed was his authority over the serpent after Aarons rod ate the serpents that pharaoh had ordered thrown down, Moses then took the rod which was a serpent into his hand. Along with showing authority over the serpents other signs and miracles did Christ perform to show he was indeed the Prophet.

                          My whole point here is some man is going to come and present himself as the saviour of the world, and mankind will accept him in place of Christ and by definition is the Antichrist and will be over the world. (at the beginning,as a figure head or ruler??) Part of being the Saviour, Christ is to be able to perform signs to authenticate that one is indeed sent from God, hence the need for Antichrist to prove he is the prophet


                          I see the first beast that rises out of the sea, as rising up from among men therefore I see the first beast as the Antichrist.

                          Rev 13:1 and I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

                          I pretty much follow the more traditional view here, that as the world leader he will be the seventh, starting with Pharaoh as number one throughout the empires till now.

                          13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: andthe dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

                          Again I go with pretty much the more common viewpoint, theworld empire will have aspects from the Babylonian, the speed of the Grecian, morestronger etc. etc. with all these previous aspects mixed in.

                          Rev 13:3-5 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded todeath; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after thebeast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to makewar with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

                          This is where I have the second beast come into play, The Antichrist seems to be fatally wounded, and he appears to be healed, there appears to be miraculous deception and the AC is now more accepted, This is where I believe the AC now evolves into the false prophet, he is given ability to perform great signs by the second beast, to deceive the whole earth, thus he now fulfils the signs of the prophet to come.

                          The second beast is Satan, these are the corresponding verses that show this.

                          2Thes 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and sot hat all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

                          Rev 13:11-14 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on theearth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight ofthe beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


                          Without going into more detail at the moment, Its probably already obvious to some that the FP continues for another 42 months so yes I do see the role of AC as in the first halfof the 7 year period, who now is also the FP empowered by the second beast inthe second half.
                          The following alone contradicts some of your conclusions.

                          Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

                          The text says this...These both were cast alive. Usually 'both' means 2, thus making these not the same entity, but 2 distinct entities.

                          Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

                          the devil that deceived them...equals 1 entity. the beast...equals 1 entity. the false prophet...equals 1 entity. 1 entity+1 entity+1 entity=3 entities.

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                          • #14
                            Re: The False Prophet

                            Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                            The two beasts exist at the same time, the second beast supporting the first beast, so they cannot be the same entity.
                            Im not sure why people keep pointing this out? Totally agree the two beasts are two totally different entities. Ill try and rephrase what Im saying.

                            First beast = The man of sin/lawlessness

                            Second beast = Satan

                            First beast = The man of sin is the antichrist who is also is the false prophet.

                            Totally agree the second beast supports the first beast, we can see this in 2 thes 2:9 "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders

                            Which harmonises with "Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. and he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence" and performs great signs that causes the whole world to worship the first beast etc etc

                            I think people are misunderstanding my position here, because Im saying the Antichrist and the false prophet are one and the same man, who I believe is the first beast that has risen up to world power.

                            So my explanations are for how and why the position of the AC and the false prophet are a one man role(not a two beast role)

                            Jesus of Nazareth was one man who held the dual roles, He is the true Christ and He is the true Prophet, it just makes sense to me that mankind rejected Christ but they will accept another who comes in his own name that he needs to proclaim he is the promised saviour of mankind(Christ), and to prove it with signs and wonders (Prophet) and he cant really claim to be one without the being the other.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The False Prophet

                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              The following alone contradicts some of your conclusions.

                              Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

                              The text says this...These both were cast alive. Usually 'both' means 2, thus making these not the same entity, but 2 distinct entities.

                              Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

                              the devil that deceived them...equals 1 entity. the beast...equals 1 entity. the false prophet...equals 1 entity. 1 entity+1 entity+1 entity=3 entities.
                              Yes excellent point.

                              I was going to copy and paste a previous post from another thread, but ill rewrite instead.

                              1st beast = the False prophet aka the antichrist = 1 entity

                              2nd beast = Satan = 1 entity

                              3rd beast = Image that has come to life = 1 entity

                              So 1+1+1 = one hundred and eleven nah just kidding, it = 3 entities.

                              Rev 13:15 "He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast" Gen 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;"

                              I find the idea of an image coming to life, totally unfathomable, but by all means and purposes its what the text appears to say, and if its what the scripture says then its all according to Gods plan.

                              Rev 13:15b"That the image of the beast should both speak, and cause as many as would not worship the beast to be killed"

                              And if the third beast has been brought to life I expect this is the beast that is cast alive with the FP into the lake of fire.

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