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  • #16
    Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

    Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Well journeyman, the bible and I both say:
    If God wants ya, He's gonna get ya, nothing in heaven nor on Earth can stop Him from getting what He wants.

    But hey, I wont try further to stop you from thinking contrary to His ability to do that.
    God has already told us what he wants and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, regardless of ones financial status or book smarts.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

      Originally posted by journeyman View Post
      God has already told us what he wants and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, regardless of ones financial status or book smarts.
      Yes, you said it plainly, but maybe not plain enough for you to pick up and run with that sentence's emphasis: Fear of God is the "beginning" of knowledge, beginning implies an end, and a journey to that end.

      Jesus authors both that beginning, and He authors the finished end to that beginning.

      But the journey in between the two ends are as an Olympic race through various obstacles as Paul describes it in one of his letters.
      That journey between the two ends is not Jesus's duty, Jesus finished His saving work on the cross.
      It is now the Holy Spirit's sustaining grace that comforts us by bringing to our remembrance scripture to apply, but more importantly by the renewing/cleansing our mind through our personal devotion to learn and apply God's word(s) to our daily life.
      I cannot do that alone, I need my fellows who are also comforted by that same Holy Spirit. comforted in the same ways, by the renewing and cleansing of their minds too.
      Scripture says one man sharpens another, it doesn't say only perfected men can sharpen another man.
      By "perfected" I mean pure in doctrine and also practicing that doctrine.
      Meaning, if you've run across a man walking on the Earth that is perfected in doctrine, then you are perfectly deceived and have not even encountered the beginning of wisdom yet.

      So then, who should we look to be sharpened by and or help sharpen in this journey to the end when Jesus Himself perfects us:
      1, One who does not see the need to even learn God's word(s) for themselves or for their house/dependents ?
      2, One who's obvious aim is to rob steal and destroy from God's kingdom ?
      3, Or one who does diligently search through God's word(s) for truth, even though he recognizes that he himself might still be in error about the many peculiar and mysterious ways of God ?

      *hint* I say number 3 on the list, but your first reply to me on this thread indicates that you seek no man to be sharpen by, because you fear being led astray by them, or what ?

      What are you getting at here is my obvious question:
      You jumped from saying not to trust bible scholars to sharpen us, but after reproof you now have jumped onto smarts and financial status not being a limiting factor in our journey.

      If you want to sharpen me here, then get to the point of my error precisely, and stop jumping from one of your errors to your next one of your errors like a nervous rabbit jumping from one dark hole to another in an attempt to hide.








      Re:
      Originally posted by journeyman View Post
      You know Jacob's Ladder,
      Jesus wasn't what some 1st century scholars were expecting the Messiah to be. Also, Jesus warned us about false Messiah's that would come and misunderstanding the scriptures about what the true Messiah does, will keep many from salvation.







      Re:
      Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
      @ Eschatology hindering God's kingdom.
      No ! ...there is evidence in our bibles that if God cannot find a man with the will or ability to correct another man, then God will immediately enable a donkey(an ass) with the ability to correct that man.


      About ten to fifteen years ago, I felt the same way about eschatology.
      Actually, I pretty much felt the same way about bible scholars in general, as to how unprofitable of a pursuit it is for a christian.
      But, over time Jesus slowly and 'very' mercifully showed me personally where I was in error there.


      So, I'm going to share the gist of what He showed me to correct my previous views on the intense devotion of some men to pursue human-understanding of God's 'ways' (Theology).


      First, eschatology is not profitless toward the building up of our fellows inside of Jesus's kingdom.
      Although eschatology can be divisive, most if not all of those possible divisions do not trespass into salvation/gospel breaking divisions.
      The consuming devotion of scholarly pursuits into Theology (including eschatological studies) have been used by God's Holy Spirit to reveal Himself to a horde of different cultures and Nations of people who otherwise would have been left to their own current meager abilities to know God as God present's Himself, rather than just knowing God according to how men have presented Him to them.
      ie: There is safety/security in the presence of many wise counsel(s) Proverbs 11:14


      Our human abilities whether they are financial or social-cast limitation and or physical and cognitive abilities, those abilities (or disabilities) are imposed upon the majority of us individually, which affects our ability to understand scripture whether be by reading it or hearing it to understand it.
      What man's scholarly pursuits into Theology (including eschatological studies) "profits" is it almost completely nullifies the affects of those our abilities and or our lack of any of those abilities.
      Those scholarly pursuits of some men help to maintain Jesus's body as a body, rather than just individual members of a body doing their own thing according to their individual limited
      abilities.


      Second, in response to our personal reluctance to giving the total devotion of our strength and mind to what we have chosen to do:
      Well we can not all have prophetic ability, nor all have teaching ability, nor all have ______ <--- fill in the blank ability 1 Corinthians 12:29
      ....And also we are charged by even Earthy wisdom found in our bibles to do what ever our hand finds to do, to do it with all of our strength and minds Ecclesiastes 9:10


      So yeah, that is the gist of why I no longer give heed to my flesh's resentment toward the persistent (even zealousness) of biblical scholars, no matter their particular cove of specialty ie: Eschatology.
      In the end, they all will have lifted Christ to every Nation and every culture on the Earth.
      ....In my new/corrected view of the pursuits of biblical scholars: all biblical scholars are teachers, good teachers at that !
      But, teachers are still growing/learning, just like all of the rest of us are.
      Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
      Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

        Too much of an obsession with eschatology can be counterproductive in my opinion. For believers it should be balanced with the rest of God's word. I know people who aren't even Christians who love nothing more than debating the meaning of Daniel and Revelation. One positive that does come out of discussing eschatology is at least it makes you aware of what the scriptures say about it, and this is a good thing for believers.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

          Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
          Yes, you said it plainly, but maybe not plain enough for you to pick up and run with that sentence's emphasis: Fear of God is the "beginning" of knowledge, beginning implies an end, and a journey to that end.

          Jesus authors both that beginning, and He authors the finished end to that beginning.

          But the journey in between the two ends are as an Olympic race through various obstacles as Paul describes it in one of his letters.
          That journey between the two ends is not Jesus's duty, Jesus finished His saving work on the cross.
          It is now the Holy Spirit's sustaining grace that comforts us by bringing to our remembrance scripture to apply, but more importantly by the renewing/cleansing our mind through our personal devotion to learn and apply God's word(s) to our daily life.
          I cannot do that alone, I need my fellows who are also comforted by that same Holy Spirit. comforted in the same ways, by the renewing and cleansing of their minds too.
          Scripture says one man sharpens another, it doesn't say only perfected men can sharpen another man.
          By "perfected" I mean pure in doctrine and also practicing that doctrine.
          Meaning, if you've run across a man walking on the Earth that is perfected in doctrine, then you are perfectly deceived and have not even encountered the beginning of wisdom yet.

          So then, who should we look to be sharpened by and or help sharpen in this journey to the end when Jesus Himself perfects us:
          1, One who does not see the need to even learn God's word(s) for themselves or for their house/dependents ?
          2, One who's obvious aim is to rob steal and destroy from God's kingdom ?
          3, Or one who does diligently search through God's word(s) for truth, even though he recognizes that he himself might still be in error about the many peculiar and mysterious ways of God ?

          *hint* I say number 3 on the list, but your first reply to me on this thread indicates that you seek no man to be sharpen by, because you fear being led astray by them, or what ?

          What are you getting at here is my obvious question:
          You jumped from saying not to trust bible scholars to sharpen us, but after reproof you now have jumped onto smarts and financial status not being a limiting factor in our journey.

          If you want to sharpen me here, then get to the point of my error precisely, and stop jumping from one of your errors to your next one of your errors like a nervous rabbit jumping from one dark hole to another in an attempt to hide.

          Re:

          Re:
          You didn't address my points.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

            Originally posted by journeyman View Post
            You didn't address my points.
            Because you did not address my counterpoints to your first argument aimed at my OP here on this thread.
            Instead you just jumped into a rabbit hole by introducing different arguments also aimed at my OP here, rather than addressing my counter points to your first argument.

            I wont chase a rabbit's distraction tactics, I'll just chuckle a little-bit while watching them scurry to scatter into the next hole that they've dug.




            Re:
            Originally posted by journeyman View Post
            God has already told us what he wants and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, regardless of ones financial status or book smarts.
            Re:
            Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
            Yes, you said it plainly, but maybe not plain enough for you to pick up and run with that sentence's emphasis: Fear of God is the "beginning" of knowledge, beginning implies an end, and a journey to that end.

            Jesus authors both that beginning, and He authors the finished end to that beginning.

            But the journey in between the two ends are as an Olympic race through various obstacles as Paul describes it in one of his letters.
            That journey between the two ends is not Jesus's duty, Jesus finished His saving work on the cross.
            It is now the Holy Spirit's sustaining grace that comforts us by bringing to our remembrance scripture to apply, but more importantly by the renewing/cleansing our mind through our personal devotion to learn and apply God's word(s) to our daily life.
            I cannot do that alone, I need my fellows who are also comforted by that same Holy Spirit. comforted in the same ways, by the renewing and cleansing of their minds too.
            Scripture says one man sharpens another, it doesn't say only perfected men can sharpen another man.
            By "perfected" I mean pure in doctrine and also practicing that doctrine.
            Meaning, if you've run across a man walking on the Earth that is perfected in doctrine, then you are perfectly deceived and have not even encountered the beginning of wisdom yet.

            So then, who should we look to be sharpened by and or help sharpen in this journey to the end when Jesus Himself perfects us:
            1, One who does not see the need to even learn God's word(s) for themselves or for their house/dependents ?
            2, One who's obvious aim is to rob steal and destroy from God's kingdom ?
            3, Or one who does diligently search through God's word(s) for truth, even though he recognizes that he himself might still be in error about the many peculiar and mysterious ways of God ?

            *hint* I say number 3 on the list, but your first reply to me on this thread indicates that you seek no man to be sharpen by, because you fear being led astray by them, or what ?

            What are you getting at here is my obvious question:
            You jumped from saying not to trust bible scholars to sharpen us, but after reproof you now have jumped onto smarts and financial status not being a limiting factor in our journey.

            If you want to sharpen me here, then get to the point of my error precisely, and stop jumping from one of your errors to your next one of your errors like a nervous rabbit jumping from one dark hole to another in an attempt to hide
            Re:
            Originally posted by journeyman View Post
            You know Jacob's Ladder,
            Jesus wasn't what some 1st century scholars were expecting the Messiah to be. Also, Jesus warned us about false Messiah's that would come and misunderstanding the scriptures about what the true Messiah does, will keep many from salvation.
            Re:
            Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
            @ Eschatology hindering God's kingdom.
            No ! ...there is evidence in our bibles that if God cannot find a man with the will or ability to correct another man, then God will immediately enable a donkey(an ass) with the ability to correct that man.

            About ten to fifteen years ago, I felt the same way about eschatology.
            Actually, I pretty much felt the same way about bible scholars in general, as to how unprofitable of a pursuit it is for a christian.
            But, over time Jesus slowly and 'very' mercifully showed me personally where I was in error there.

            So, I'm going to share the gist of what He showed me to correct my previous views on the intense devotion of some men to pursue human-understanding of God's 'ways' (Theology).

            First, eschatology is not profitless toward the building up of our fellows inside of Jesus's kingdom.
            Although eschatology can be divisive, most if not all of those possible divisions do not trespass into salvation/gospel breaking divisions.
            The consuming devotion of scholarly pursuits into Theology (including eschatological studies) have been used by God's Holy Spirit to reveal Himself to a horde of different cultures and Nations of people who otherwise would have been left to their own current meager abilities to know God as God present's Himself, rather than just knowing God according to how men have presented Him to them.
            ie: There is safety/security in the presence of many wise counsel(s) Proverbs 11:14

            Our human abilities whether they are financial or social-cast limitation and or physical and cognitive abilities, those abilities (or disabilities) are imposed upon the majority of us individually, which affects our ability to understand scripture whether be by reading it or hearing it to understand it.
            What man's scholarly pursuits into Theology (including eschatological studies) "profits" is it almost completely nullifies the affects of those our abilities and or our lack of any of those abilities.
            Those scholarly pursuits of some men help to maintain Jesus's body as a body, rather than just individual members of a body doing their own thing according to their individual limited
            abilities.

            Second, in response to our personal reluctance to giving the total devotion of our strength and mind to what we have chosen to do:
            Well we can not all have prophetic ability, nor all have teaching ability, nor all have ______ <--- fill in the blank ability 1 Corinthians 12:29
            ....And also we are charged by even Earthy wisdom found in our bibles to do what ever our hand finds to do, to do it with all of our strength and minds Ecclesiastes 9:10

            So yeah, that is the gist of why I no longer give heed to my flesh's resentment toward the persistent (even zealousness) of biblical scholars, no matter their particular cove of specialty ie: Eschatology.
            In the end, they all will have lifted Christ to every Nation and every culture on the Earth.
            ....In my new/corrected view of the pursuits of biblical scholars: all biblical scholars are teachers, good teachers at that !
            But, teachers are still growing/learning, just like all of the rest of us are.
            Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
            Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

              Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
              Because you did not address my counterpoints to your first argument aimed at my OP here on this thread.
              Instead you just jumped into a rabbit hole by introducing different arguments also aimed at my OP here, rather than addressing my counter points to your first argument.

              I wont chase a rabbit's distraction tactics, I'll just chuckle a little-bit while watching them scurry to scatter into the next hole that they've dug.

              Re:

              Re:

              Re:

              Re:
              You haven't made any counterpoint. The wealth/social status/book smarts idea was introduced by you, but most of the people who taught the gospel were just common folks. The only scholar among the apostles got a complete overhaul.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

                Originally posted by journeyman View Post
                You haven't made any counterpoint. The wealth/social status/book smarts idea was introduced by you, but most of the people who taught the gospel were just common folks. The only scholar among the apostles got a complete overhaul.
                No.
                Maybe you could try reading my OP here on the thread again, because all of the answers you're seeking from me are all found within it.
                Meaning, I don't think re-posting them a third time for you will help.

                Or, you could read that OP here on the thread again and re-word your questions (or as you prefer to call questions "your points")



                Peace
                Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
                Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

                  Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
                  No.
                  Maybe you could try reading my OP here on the thread again, because all of the answers you're seeking from me are all found within it.
                  I never sought answers from you. I pointed out how some of the so called scholars of Gods word hated Jesus and the result of that. I also pointed out what Jesus and the Apostles said about false teachers to come and what the result of not recognizing them will be. That's all.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

                    Originally posted by journeyman View Post
                    I never sought answers from you. I pointed out how some of the so called scholars of Gods word hated Jesus and the result of that. I also pointed out what Jesus and the Apostles said about false teachers to come and what the result of not recognizing them will be. That's all.
                    Since you put it like that, I can agree 100% with you then.
                    Yeah, there are some scoundrel bible scholars out there now, and also in the past too.
                    But for me, that does not discredit that Profession, they are a needed and blessed resource for studying God's word until Christ returns. (every rose has it's thorns)

                    Anyway, false teachers and or dysfunctional-scholars can sharpen a man through trials of error, maybe sharpen a man even quicker than a righteous man can sharpen another man.
                    ....Honestly, even satan and his buddies scheming wiles have sharpened me over and over again in my life.
                    I would not be as strong in my faith now with out those trials loosed by upon me by satan, false teachers and dysfunctional bible scholars in my past, and I'm sure more are headed my way in the future too if doesn't Jesus return quickly.


                    Peace.
                    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
                    Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Why an Obsession with Eschatology is a Waste of Time

                      Originally posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
                      Since you put it like that, I can agree 100% with you then.
                      Yeah, there are some scoundrel bible scholars out there now, and also in the past too.
                      But for me, that does not discredit that Profession, they are a needed and blessed resource for studying God's word until Christ returns. (every rose has it's thorns)

                      Anyway, false teachers and or dysfunctional-scholars can sharpen a man through trials of error, maybe sharpen a man even quicker than a righteous man can sharpen another man.
                      ....Honestly, even satan and his buddies scheming wiles have sharpened me over and over again in my life.
                      I would not be as strong in my faith now with out those trials loosed by upon me by satan, false teachers and dysfunctional bible scholars in my past, and I'm sure more are headed my way in the future too if doesn't Jesus return quickly.

                      Peace.
                      We do grow as we trust in Jesus no matter what happens. The Lord does send good teachers.

                      Comment

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