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Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

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  • #16
    Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

    Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    ...so verse Matt24:4/Mk13:5 says [can be legitimately translated], "[…] Take heed, lest A CERTAIN ONE [G5100] deceive you [proleptic 'you,' plural]"
    But isn't it referring to the collective lot of deceivers that will arise in those days?

    Be Blessed
    The PuP

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

      Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
      But do you believe that "THE xxxx xxxxxx" (the 4 choices) is specifically pointed to in the text?

      Be Blessed
      The PuP
      Yes. False Messiahs are plural, but definitely the man of sin /antichrist is primarily in mind.

      The false prophets are plural, but the signs and wonders are mentioned, so definitely the false prophet is in mind.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

        Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
        ...so verse Matt24:4/Mk13:5 says [can be legitimately translated], "[] Take heed, lest A CERTAIN ONE [G5100] deceive you [proleptic 'you,' plural]"
        It tend to think it means what it says...no man, meaning any man who might attempt to do so. That same phrase is used in other passages as well, where I don't get the impression it is ever meaning a certain one in particular. Such as...


        Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

        2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

        1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

          Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
          Yes. Messiahs are plural, but definitely the man of sin /antichrist is primarily in mind.

          The false prophets are plural, but the signs and wonders are mentioned, so definitely the false prophet is in mind.
          Maybe the fp is not a person as in a single individual, but that all of these combined equal the fp? We have to keep in mind this...

          Matthew 24:24*For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

          The elect has to be meaning the church in this context, thus these false Christs, and false prophets, are trying to deceive the church. The only way that might be possible, these false Christs, and false prophets make it seem they, too, are part of the church, when in reality they are not. Maybe like some of these alleged people we see on Christian tv channels, who have a huge following, and claim miracles and healings by way of their hands are taking place left and right, and that the Holy Spirit is behind all of this. Maybe in some cases that could be true, but in all cases though?

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          • #20
            Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

            Originally posted by divaD View Post
            How do you know it is the fp that does that? What other Scriptures prove that it is the fp who places this?
            Because Daniel 12 tells us the Daily Sacrifice shall be taken away {Jesus Worship is forbidden} AND the AoD is set up, there will be 1290 days [until these wonders end] {Second Coming ends these wonders}.

            Dan.12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.



            The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region at the 1260 event, which happens 30 days after the 1290 event. So if the A.C. doesn't conquer Israel until 30 days after the AoD who gives that order ? The Jewish High Priest, of course forbids the Worship of Jesus {takes away the Sacrifice}. What I don't get, and I used to do it also, is why people don't get that Gabriel/God are not going to be referencing an END TIME Sacrifice that is PROFANE !! They are speaking about THE SACRIFICE, Jesus Christ being taken away !! Thus only the Jewish High Priest can do this, he runs the Temple, so if hes anti-Jesus and 1/3 of the Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah and start worshiping Jesus in the Temple of God, this man is going to blow his stack {many Jews today hate...HATE their own kids/cousins/kin today if they accept Jesus}. So this man will forbid Jesus worship, and IMHO, he will mock Jesus and the 1/3 by placing an IMAGE of the E.U. President in the Temple 30 days before he Conquers Jerusalem, thus the Jews have their SIGN to Flee Judea before they are Conquered. They only understand this if they are Christians who have read and heeded Matthew 24:15-17.

            Does scriptures agree with this timing ? Yes, Malachi 4:5-6 says God will send Elijah back BEFORE the Day of the Lord {1260 event} to turn Israel back unto God. So Israel {1/3} repent before the 1260 and the 1290 at the 1335 Blessing, which, IMHO, is the Two-witnesses showing up. It also matches the time periods that both the Beast and Two-witnesses OFFICE'S on earth must be, both have 1260 day offices, since the Two-witnesses die before the Beast dies, they must therefore show up before he Conquers Jerusalem. It all fits, or else I wouldn't understand it as of God.

            We see in Antiochus and Jason {High Priest appointed by Antiochus whose real name was Yeshua} the exact same TYPES, Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews which caused the Maccabean Revolt. So the False Prophet has to be a Jewish High Priest gone rogue. Rev. 13 therefore tells us the FP places the Image of the Beast and Demands all men to worship him or die.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

              Originally posted by divaD View Post
              Maybe the fp is not a person as in a single individual, but that all of these combined equal the fp? We have to keep in mind this...

              Matthew 24:24*For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

              The elect has to be meaning the church in this context, thus these false Christs, and false prophets, are trying to deceive the church. The only way that might be possible, these false Christs, and false prophets make it seem they, too, are part of the church, when in reality they are not. Maybe like some of these alleged people we see on Christian tv channels, who have a huge following, and claim miracles and healings by way of their hands are taking place left and right, and that the Holy Spirit is behind all of this. Maybe in some cases that could be true, but in all cases though?
              I believe the false prophet of Rev 13 has 2 little horns, meaning two leaders in very small geographical locations. Rev 13 describes how they have vast religious influence.

              I see the false prophet beast as represented by the Roman Pope, and the Istanbul Caliph. These two religious leaders will influence Christianity and Islam to support the false Messiah in Israel. Possibly the Pope will have more of the breakaway churches back under the Catholic fold by then, through the ecumenical movement.

              When the Olivet Discourse refers to false prophets with deceiving signs and wonders, to me this is an obvious reference to the deceiving signs and wonders in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post

                When the Olivet Discourse refers to false prophets with deceiving signs and wonders, to me this is an obvious reference to the deceiving signs and wonders in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13.
                We are at least on the same page in regards to this. I agree with you.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                  Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark

                  ...so verse Matt24:4/Mk13:5 says [can be legitimately translated], "[…] Take heed, lest A CERTAIN ONE [G5100] deceive you [proleptic 'you,' plural]"
                  Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                  But isn't it referring to the collective lot of deceivers that will arise in those days?
                  I believe the following verse (Matt24:5/Mk13:6) does ^ as you say, but not Matt24:4/Mk13:5 (which Grk word "G5100" can be translated "A CERTAIN ONE").

                  [recall, I'm saying that in my study of the chronology (etc), I believe ALL of the "beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (which parallel the SEALS) begin FOLLOWING "our Rapture/The Departure," including this INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4/Mk13:5... 1Th5:2-3]" which is followed by many more "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that follow on from that INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR]… So, I believe the WORDING of this specific verse is designed to be DISCOVERED ("understood") by those who will exist IN the trib JUST FOLLOWING our Rapture/The Departure... FOR THEIR "benefit" (to "grasp" what is now to transpire upon the earth, at/during that specific future time-period which will LEAD UP TO "His 2nd Coming to the earth" FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth)]

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                    Originally posted by Revelation Man View Post
                    thus the Jews have their SIGN to Flee Judea before they are Conquered. They only understand this if they are Christians who have read and heeded Matthew 24:15-17.
                    How many do you suppose currently living in that region even fits..."They only understand this if they are Christians who have read and heeded Matthew 24:15-17"?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                      IOW, I believe (per CONTEXT) it has specific reference to a specific "individual" at a specific (FUTURE) "time period" (the trib yrs); but is relatively harmless for folks throughout the past 2000 yrs to have taken its "instruction" in a personally applicable way, if you get what I mean

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                        Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                        But isn't it referring to the collective lot of deceivers that will arise in those days?

                        Be Blessed
                        The PuP
                        That's a good way of looking at it. I tend to agree with you, now that you have mentioned it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                          Originally posted by divaD View Post
                          It tend to think it means what it says...no man, meaning any man who might attempt to do so. That same phrase is used in other passages as well, where I don't get the impression it is ever meaning a certain one in particular. Such as...


                          Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

                          2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

                          1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
                          I can elaborate later (or in another thread, so as to not muddy up the OP's thread here), but basically...

                          consider:

                          --the word in both Eph5:6 and 1Jn3:7 is a DIFFERENT GREEK WORD altogether, and instead of "G5100 - tis" (which CAN LEGIT be translated as "A CERTAIN ONE") is [instead] "G3367 - medeis / medemia / meden - no one, none, nothing"

                          --it is only in the 2Th2:3 verse you pointed out, that this "G5100 - tis" word is [also] used, which CAN LEGIT be translated "A CERTAIN ONE" but doesn't always / doesn't always have to be.

                          See what I mean?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                            divaD, there's more to those specific verses I could also point out, but that's for starters ^

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                              Originally posted by DurbanDude View Post
                              When the Olivet Discourse refers to false prophets with deceiving signs and wonders, to me this is an obvious reference to the deceiving signs and wonders in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13.
                              The way I see THIS is, that in Matt24:23[24] (speaking of a LATER time-slot than what I've been speaking of in my previous posts of this thread) says (in v.23) [context: SECOND HALF of trib] "THEN [/at that time] if A CERTAIN ONE [G5100 - tis] says unto you [proleptic 'you,' plural] 'See HERE the Christ, or HERE,' believe [it] not" (this person speaking of someone BESIDES themselves), and then the wording saying accompanied by "great signs and wonders," that THIS individual sounds very much aligned with what takes place in the Rev13:11-18 passage and there refers to the "ANOTHER beast" (the false prophet) and these kinds of "great wonders" and like things... and this is what I believe takes place IN THE SECOND HALF, aligning THESE sections of each passage... make sense??

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                                Originally posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
                                I can elaborate later (or in another thread, so as to not muddy up the OP's thread here), but basically...

                                consider:

                                --the word in both Eph5:6 and 1Jn3:7 is a DIFFERENT GREEK WORD altogether, and instead of "G5100 - tis" (which CAN LEGIT be translated as "A CERTAIN ONE") is [instead] "G3367 - medeis / medemia / meden - no one, none, nothing"

                                --it is only in the 2Th2:3 verse you pointed out, that this "G5100 - tis" word is [also] used, which CAN LEGIT be translated "A CERTAIN ONE" but doesn't always / doesn't always have to be.

                                See what I mean?
                                Ok I see your point now. Since 'tis' can mean 'certain', it therefore is a legit translation of the verse in question. But not that it has to mean 'certain', but because it can mean 'certain'.

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