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Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

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  • #46
    Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

    Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
    I mention several events, so I am not real sure what you need to be clarified. So let me start with Rev 12 that says that the woman is fed in the wilderness
    from the face of the serpent FOR A time, times and a half and/or 1260 days. Whereas, the times of the beast equal 42 months, which equals 1239 (+/- 1) days, meaning that Satan is cast out approx. 21 days before the 42 months begin. It could be different if the ending points (of the 42 months and 1260 days are different). Let me insert a personal note here. To equate 42 months, or time, times & a half, to be equal to the 1260 days is to find yourself part & parcel with the philosophy of the "antichrist" who wishes to change times and seasons. A so-called "prophetic" month of 30 days is that inordinate unscriptural philosophy. The scriptures ONLY give rise to a lunar month calendar system, that amounts to months of 29 and 30 day lengths, with 12 months equaling 354 days. Time, times, and half, 1260 days, and 42 months are all non-congruent lengths of time.

    Because the AoD happens before the G.T., which happens before Satan is cast out, which happens before the powers of the heavens are shaken, this means that the AoD IS NOT the same thing as when the man of sin is revealed. I equate his revelation with this time when the powers of heaven are shaken. This equates to one or more of thee following: 5th trumpet, beast from the sea, or beast from the earth.

    Jesus comes with the kingdom at the 7th trumpet a short period of time after the "man of sin is revealed first, 2 Thess 2". This also corresponds to the "another" that arises after the first 10 horns, who subdues the other 3 kings that arise from the earth.
    I.e. the 4th king subdues the other 3 kings that arise from the earth. This is in addition to the little horn uprooting 3 of the first 10 horns.
    Dan 7:24 KJV And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and ANOTHER shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

    This period of time is stated to last for Time, Times, and the "Dividing" of Time. [not half a time]. Although this could technically be any where from 3 years, 1 month UPTO 3 years 11 months, but because this king arises after the little horn breaks the whole world into pieces, it is a period of time less than 3 years and 6 months. This also means that it corresponds to some time after Satan is cast out of heaven for his time, times and half a time. I hope this answered your question. I'll be glad to further clarify that or any other question.

    Be Blessed
    The PuP
    Now that you have clarified, I would say you and I are basically seeing a lot of this the same. Initially I thought you may have meant satan gets cast out after the trib of those days, where I would have disagreed with that. But since you weren't meaning that, I then don't really have anything to dispute in that post, which is good of course.

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    • #47
      Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

      Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
      I can't agree. The AoD is clearly a part of the tribulation events.
      I would say that the AoD is concurrent with the start of the (great) tribulation of those days, so I believe we are in agreement on that part. When Jesus says (multiple times) "in those days", I believe that he is alluding to "that/ this generation" that shall see all these things" come to pass:

      Mat 24:34 KJV Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

      The thing that I wanted/ want to point out is that Jesus gives us an ordering to the events "of those days"

      Mat 24:29 IMMEDIATELY AFTER the "tribulation" of THOSE DAYS shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

      And so, the "tribulation of those days" does not include the darkened sun, lightless moon, stars falling from heaven [the 6th seal] nor the powers of the heaven being shaken [Nor the erchomai/ coming of Jesus]. Essentially, Jesus says that the great tribulation of those days precedes the opening of the 6th seal. This is why I stand by my conviction to say that Paul does not have the AoD in mind when he talks about the revelation of the man of sin.

      Be Blessed
      The PuP

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

        Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
        Essentially, Jesus says that the great tribulation of those days precedes the opening of the 6th seal.
        All the seals are opened long before the GT. The seals only show glimpses of events that happen in the various trumps. The events the seals describe do not happen at the time of the opening. The 6th seal that was opened shows events of the 7th trump. Basically the seals give us information of things to come, and the trumps are the things to come actually happening. Christ does not return in the 6th seal and then a second time in the 7th trump...That tells us the first was showing us what would happen later.
        James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          All the seals are opened long before the GT. The seals only show glimpses of events that happen in the various trumps. The events the seals describe do not happen at the time of the opening. The 6th seal that was opened shows events of the 7th trump. Basically the seals give us information of things to come, and the trumps are the things to come actually happening. Christ does not return in the 6th seal and then a second time in the 7th trump...That tells us the first was showing us what would happen later.
          If the seals are sequential and the trumpets are concurrent with the trumpets, then that means that you believe that those (concurrent) trumpets sound before the 6th seal is opened. Is that what you believe?

          Be Blessed
          The PuP

          Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
          All the seals are opened long before the GT. The seals only show glimpses of events that happen in the various trumps. The events the seals describe do not happen at the time of the opening. The 6th seal that was opened shows events of the 7th trump. Basically the seals give us information of things to come, and the trumps are the things to come actually happening. Christ does not return in the 6th seal and then a second time in the 7th trump...That tells us the first was showing us what would happen later.
          If the seals are sequential and the trumpets are concurrent with the trumpets, then that means that you believe that those (concurrent) trumpets sound before the 6th seal is opened. Is that what you believe?

          Be Blessed
          The PuP

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

            Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
            If the seals are sequential and the trumpets are concurrent with the trumpets, then that means that you believe that those (concurrent) trumpets sound before the 6th seal is opened. Is that what you believe?
            No. Scripture says no trumpets are handed out until after the 7th seal was opened so all seals are opened before any trump sounds and they don't sound immediately after that either. We don't know how much time passes but there is a clear gap between the 7th seal and when the trumps begin to sound.

            Rev 8:1* And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.*
            Rev 8:2* And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.*
            James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              No. Scripture says no trumpets are handed out until after the 7th seal was opened so all seals are opened before any trump sounds and they don't sound immediately after that either. We don't know how much time passes but there is a clear gap between the 7th seal and when the trumps begin to sound.

              Rev 8:1* And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.*
              Rev 8:2* And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.*
              But you are still disagreeing with Jesus when he said that the g.t. happens before the stars fall from heaven.

              Mat 24:29 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

              Be Blessed
              The PuP

              Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post
              No. Scripture says no trumpets are handed out until after the 7th seal was opened so all seals are opened before any trump sounds and they don't sound immediately after that either. We don't know how much time passes but there is a clear gap between the 7th seal and when the trumps begin to sound.

              Rev 8:1* And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.*
              Rev 8:2* And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.*
              But you are still disagreeing with Jesus when he said that the g.t. happens before the stars fall from heaven.

              Mat 24:29 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

              Be Blessed
              The PuP

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                Originally posted by Pesachpup View Post
                But you are still disagreeing with Jesus when he said that the g.t. happens before the stars fall from heaven.

                No, the GT happens before that happens. The issue is the seals are opened before the GT so nothing the seals describe means those events were happening at the time of the opening.



                Mat 24:29 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

                That definitely happens after the GT is over. It's the 7th trump/second coming of Christ. The 6th seal speaks of those events but the events are still future at the time of the opening.
                James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                  Originally posted by ewq1938 View Post






                  That definitely happens after the GT is over. It's the 7th trump/second coming of Christ. The 6th seal speaks of those events but the events are still future at the time of the opening.
                  It looks like to me this makes you two on the same then. Well make that 3, I'm on the same page as well.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Who's in, who's out (of the Olivet Discourse)?

                    Originally posted by divaD View Post
                    It looks like to me this makes you two on the same then. Well make that 3, I'm on the same page as well.
                    Great. I've been saying this forever but people usually don't agree
                    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

                    Comment

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