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  • Who is a Jew or the nation Israel.

    Who is a Jew or the nation Israel.
    This is what God has spoken through His prophets.


    Genesis 17:3
    Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4. "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

    Romans 4:13
    It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
    16. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

    Exodus 12:37
    The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. 38. Many other people went up with them, as well as large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds.

    Leviticus 19:34
    The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 24:22
    You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.

    Numbers 15:15
    The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD :

    Joshua 8:33
    All Israel, aliens and citizens alike, with their elders, officials and judges, were standing on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the LORD, facing those who carried it—the priests, who were Levites. Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD had formerly commanded when he gave instructions to bless the people of Israel.

    Isaiah 14:1
    The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.

    Isaiah 44:5
    One will say, 'I belong to the LORD '; another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,' and will take the name Israel.

    Ezekiel 47
    21. "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22. You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23. In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.

    Ephesians 2:19
    Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...

    Isaiah 56:3
    Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people."- 6. And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
    and who hold fast to my covenant-
    7. these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."
    8. The Sovereign LORD declares— he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."

    Romans 9:6
    It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

    1 Corinthians 14:21
    In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

    Ephesians 2:12
    remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

    Ephesians 3:6
    This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

    Romans 2:28
    For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Romans 3:29
    Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

    Romans 9:24
    even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

    Romans 10:12
    For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,...

    Galatians 3:28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Colossians 3:11
    Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

    Revelation 2:9
    I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

    Revelation 3:9
    I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

    Acts 3:25
    And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.'

    Romans 8:17
    Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

    Galatians 3:29
    If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Ephesians 3:6
    This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

    Titus 3:7
    so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

    Isaiah 9:3
    You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as men rejoice when dividing the plunder.

    Isaiah 26:15
    You have enlarged the nation, O LORD; you have enlarged the nation. You have gained glory for yourself;
    you have extended all the borders of the land.

    Romans 10:19
    Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;...

    Esther 8:17
    In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

    Genesis 17:3
    Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4. "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5. No longer will you be called Abram ; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you,...

    Genesis 35:11
    And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body.

    Psalm 2:4
    The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. 5. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, 6. "I have installed my King
    on Zion, my holy hill." 7. I will proclaim the decree of the LORD : He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father. 8. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.

    Psalm 18:43
    You have delivered me from the attacks of the people; you have made me the head of nations; people I did not know are subject to me.

    Psalm 82:8
    Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

    Psalm 111:6
    He has shown his people the power of his works, giving them the lands of other nations.

    Zechariah 2:10
    "Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD. 11. "Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. 12. The LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13. Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."

    Matthew 12:21
    In his name the nations will put their hope."

    Romans 4:18
    Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."

    Romans 9:8
    In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

    The Parable of the Tenants
    Luke 20
    9. He went on to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11. He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12. He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.
    13. "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.' 14. "But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. 'This is the heir,' they said. 'Let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' 15. So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. "What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16. He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!" 17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

    " 'The stone the builders rejected
    has become the capstone? 18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

    19. The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.

  • #2
    There was a lot more scripture that I could have posted, but I thought these were best. Do you agree with this scripture? Is a Jew a convert to Judaism and the Hebrews a race of people? Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mdo757 View Post
      There was a lot more scripture that I could have posted, but I thought these were best. Do you agree with this scripture? Is a Jew a convert to Judaism and the Hebrews a race of people? Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.

      Well done. Good study.

      I thoroughly agree. We are saved by grace not by race.
      "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

      http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

      WPM

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wpm View Post
        Well done. Good study.

        I thoroughly agree. We are saved by grace not by race.
        From what I see in scripture a Jew is a convert to Judaism. The people who make up the nation are all different races of peoples, all converts to Judaism through Yahshua the Messiah.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mdo757 View Post
          From what I see in scripture a Jew is a convert to Judaism. The people who make up the nation are all different races of peoples, all converts to Judaism through Yahshua the Messiah.

          They are a convert to Christ and become spiritually a Jew. To be a natural Jew would mean physical circumcision, what is needed to become a spiritual Jew is spiritual circumcision.
          "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

          http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

          WPM

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wpm View Post
            They are a convert to Christ and become spiritually a Jew. To be a natural Jew would mean physical circumcision, what is needed to become a spiritual Jew is spiritual circumcision.
            Basically you are correct. But also a person can conclude that the Hebrews are a race of people, and a Jew is a convert to Judaism. Such as a Judaeo Christian would be a Jew under the New Covenant. Being a Jew has nothing to do with a race of people according to scripture. I also found out in my studies that the word Goyim is not always translated correctly. Originally the word meant "people-s," (always) but now days it is also is used to mean "nation-s." In scripture God did not count the Hebrews and other peoples that did not take part in worshipping Him.

            Comment


            • #7
              Who, then, are gentiles?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mfowler12 View Post
                Who, then, are gentiles?
                The word Gentile is used to describe other peoples and nations who are not of the religion of Judaism. In other words, Pagans. All who are of a different belief, or join other religious beliefs to Judaism are Pagans. I guess you could say that truth is narrowly defined, and not broad and all encompassing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mdo757 View Post
                  There was a lot more scripture that I could have posted, but I thought these were best. Do you agree with this scripture? Is a Jew a convert to Judaism and the Hebrews a race of people? Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.
                  I don't understand your statement "Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism." Saul was heavy into Judaism until he became a Christian. Then as Paul, he converted from Judaism to Christian. Before Christ, God's people were the men of faith in the Lord. After Christ, God's people are still the men of faith in the Lord.

                  The scripture you quoted from Romans says it best:
                  Romans 4:13
                  It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
                  16. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.


                  Jesus is Lord and was Lord before the foundation of the world. Men of faith in the Lord are God's people. Before Christ, it was limited to descendants of Israel to be called one of God's people. After the cross, any nationality can become one of God's people. As you quoted:

                  Romans 10:12
                  For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,...

                  Raybob

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Raybob View Post
                    I don't understand your statement "Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism." Saul was heavy into Judaism until he became a Christian. Then as Paul, he converted from Judaism to Christian. Before Christ, God's people were the men of faith in the Lord. After Christ, God's people are still the men of faith in the Lord.

                    The scripture you quoted from Romans says it best:
                    Romans 4:13
                    It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
                    16. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.


                    Jesus is Lord and was Lord before the foundation of the world. Men of faith in the Lord are God's people. Before Christ, it was limited to descendants of Israel to be called one of God's people. After the cross, any nationality can become one of God's people. As you quoted:

                    Romans 10:12
                    For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,...

                    Raybob
                    I am a Judaeo Christian.
                    1. Acts 2:11
                      (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

                    2. Acts 6:5
                      This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

                    3. Acts 13:43
                      When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

                    Acts 11:26
                    and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people.
                    The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mdo757 View Post
                      I am a Judaeo Christian.
                      1. Acts 2:11
                        (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

                      2. Acts 6:5
                        This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

                      3. Acts 13:43
                        When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

                      Acts 11:26
                      and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people.
                      The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
                      What translation are you using?? Those aren't found in the KJV nor are they in the original Greek text. What your bible calls converts to Judaism, the KJV calls religious proselytes.

                      Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.


                      Raybob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Raybob View Post
                        What translation are you using?? Those aren't found in the KJV nor are they in the original Greek text. What your bible calls converts to Judaism, the KJV calls religious proselytes.

                        Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.


                        Raybob
                        I'm quoting the NIV. Basically proselyte and convert are the same thing. You need to keep in mind that it wasn't until years later the disciples were first called Christians. Before then they were called the "Way" and a sect of Judaism.
                        1. Luke 5:30
                          But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

                        2. Acts 24:5
                          "We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect

                        3. Acts 24:14
                          However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,

                        4. Acts 26:5
                          They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing, that according to the strictest sect of our religion, I lived as a Pharisee.

                        5. Acts 28:22
                          But we want to hear what your views are, for we know that people everywhere are talking against this sect."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Actually, Jews who believed in Jesus weren't a sect of Judiasm - they were the fulfillment of Judaism. Those who persecuted the Christians called them a sect in order that Rome would put them to death, for it was unlawful to begin new religions, though Judaism was legal since it was an already established religion. Many (including myself) believe that one of the main reasons that Luke wrote Acts was to prove that Christianity was not a sect, but was the promised fulfillment of Judaism.

                          Great posts! - Astro
                          analyze. synthesize. repeat.

                          *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good post.

                            Paul says several times, often with nearly the same sentence, that flesh and blood are irrelevant to God. Being Jew or Gentile is irrelevant.

                            1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

                            Col 2:11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,
                            Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

                            Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

                            Gal 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
                            Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

                            This last one requires some thought. Who is “the Israel of God”?

                            We are. Paul is using Israel to mean all those who are saved. Those who glorify the risen son.

                            So far this topic could be in any of the forums. Let’s give it an ETC flair:

                            Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
                            Rom 11:27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

                            Again, what is Israel? Does this verse literally mean the Jews will be saved at the end? Given all the other verses where Paul tells us being a Jew or Gentile is not important, I would say no, that is not what this is saying. It means all of those who are with Christ will be saved. Christians are the Israel of God.
                            In Christ,

                            -- Rev

                            “To preserve the government we must also preserve morals. Morality rests on religion; if you destroy the foundation, the superstructure must fall. When the public mind becomes vitiated and corrupt, laws are a nullity and constitutions are waste paper.” – Daniel Webster, 4th of July, 1800, Oration at Hanover, N.H.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
                              Actually, Jews who believed in Jesus weren't a sect of Judiasm - they were the fulfillment of Judaism. Those who persecuted the Christians called them a sect in order that Rome would put them to death, for it was unlawful to begin new religions, though Judaism was legal since it was an already established religion. Many (including myself) believe that one of the main reasons that Luke wrote Acts was to prove that Christianity was not a sect, but was the promised fulfillment of Judaism.

                              Great posts! - Astro
                              You are mistaken, they were a fulfillment of prophecy, not Judaism. Look this scripture over again. Christianity is the fulfillment of prophecy.
                              1. Luke 5:30
                                But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

                              2. Acts 24:5
                                "We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect

                              3. Acts 24:14
                                However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets,

                              4. Acts 26:5
                                They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing, that according to the strictest sect of our religion, I lived as a Pharisee.

                              Comment

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