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  • Discussion Can someone be saved before they know who Jesus is?

    If you know that you were saved, then yes, you are a christian and a child of God who will one day be in the presence of God. I was saved for about 2 months before I asked my pastor who Jesus was. He didn't give me an answer, just helped me to find the books of the bible to find out for myself. Salvation comes from God and has nothing to do with our knowledge, however, we are also given the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth.

    Acts 9:1-18.
    Paul/Saul didn't know who the Savior was. He asked who He was too. Was Paul saved before or after he believed Jesus could save him?

  • #2
    If you're referring to the understanding or knowledge that Christ is both fully man and fully God; then my answer would be "yes", that it is possible to be saved without that specific understanding.

    In fact, in my studies of 1st century culture, something has really stood out to me in regard to this very thing.

    That is that most of the Gentile churches (who didn't have the "underpinning" of the law and prophets) consisted many times of people who didn't know much more than Jesus had touched their lives and changed them somehow.

    It became the responsibility of those who were in the "offices" listed in Ephesians chapt 4 (Apostles, prophets, pastors-teachers, etc.) to then instruct them in "Christianity 101" as it were.
    Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



    ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


    A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

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    • #3
      Originally posted by HankZ View Post
      If you know that you were saved, then yes, you are a christian and a child of God who will one day be in the presence of God. I was saved for about 2 months before I asked my pastor who Jesus was. He didn't give me an answer, just helped me to find the books of the bible to find out for myself. Salvation comes from God and has nothing to do with our knowledge, however, we are also given the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth.

      Acts 9:1-18.
      Paul/Saul didn't know who the Savior was. He asked who He was too. Was Paul saved before or after he believed Jesus could save him?
      They need to believe that God raised him from the dead, that he is their saviour and confess him as their Lord. (Romans 10:9, John 3:16)

      In Acts 2 they believed on the Lord Jesus CHirst, and that God raised him from the dead - and they had a change of heart (repented) - and that day those thousands were added to the church.

      They had this basic knowledge of him at least. I'm not sure about the fulness of your question, but at face value if someone doesn't even know who this savior/Jesus is then they can't confess someone they don't even know (at all) as their Lord. But if they have HEARD about him, as we can read the progression in Romans 10, then they can believe on him.

      HankZ: Could you clarify if your questions is talking about knowing Jesus at all, or knowing the fulness of who he is, or somewhere in the middle?
      Last edited by Julian; Jan 15th 2009, 03:52 PM.

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      • #4
        Can someone be saved before they know who Jesus is?


        I’m not meaning to ‘hedge’ on the question, but our looking at the issue gets a bit complicated, especially for a “New in Christ” thread and especially since there’s been considerable division among Christians throughout history on these issues; but delving into these complications can be very important.

        I’d say, yes, salvation is from God and one can be saved before knowing who Jesus is. But in our discussions we often bring different understandings of what it means to be saved and to know Jesus. We bring even other understandings to the question of knowing whether we know we are/were saved, or can know. There are some pretty diverse perspectives among Christians here at Bibleforums, but I think I’m mostly in agreement with your perspective on these issues.

        Here’s some of what I believe. As to knowledge, I believe there’s a distinction to be made between a general knowledge of God and a saving knowledge of God. I believe, for example, that Satan and deamons and each of us humans have an innate knowledge of God by virtue of being created by God – sort of like having it as part of our DNA. It’s for this reason I don’t believe in atheists – I think everyone has some built-in knowledge of God. I further believe that humans were created to fellowship rightly with God, so that when we’re not fellowshipping rightly with God we ‘notice’ that something is missing, something is wrong. This I would term a general knowledge of God, as distinct from a saving knowledge of God.

        A saving knowledge of God is much more difficult to ‘pin down’, since I believe it essentially comes from God through the Holy Spirit as an awakening of our essence into new life through Christ. I believe this necessary for our salvation. I believe this is purposed by God before the creation of the world, and that it can occur in time at any point in one’s human life-cycle – from before birth right through our leaving our earthly bodies for elsewhere. In my own life I believe I was saved before I was born and that there has never been a time in my life when I wasn’t so saved. Further, I believe this saving knowledge also occurs at some level in our being that isn’t dependent on human intellect – that the mentally handicapped, for example, can be graced with this knowledge every bit as much as you or I. This saving knowledge, which, again, is of the Holy Spirit, brings with it such things as repentance from evil and a true love of God. We might not be humanly able to see the evidences of this in someone’s life, but usually we do – when, for example, someone visibly and vocally “turns their life over to God”, makes “confession of believing in God”, “accepts Jesus into their life”, “turns from their sinful ways”, and exhibits a “spirit-filled” life in Christ.

        The whole matter of salvation is another issue – one we again often theologically complicate, just as the Bible does. In one since we are saved before the foundation of the world, in another we are saved in time when Christ Jesus died for our sins, in another we are saved when we receive the Holy Spirit, in another we are being saved daily through our Christian walk, in another we will not be ultimately saved until we are completely free of the presence of sin and eternally at home with the Lord. There are even further complications, particularly in considerations of when and in what order salvation occurs through the process of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

        Comment


        • #5
          Just an additional thought on the subject:

          We're told that our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life, before the foundations of the world were ever laid down.

          Meaning: God already knows/knew who will & won't ask for forgiveness & accept salvation.

          So in SOME sense, YES.
          I'd say we're saved before we know Jesus....but only because HE knows that we WILL ask, and our names ARE in the "Book of Life".

          Know what I mean?
          Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
          _______________________________________________
          There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by markdrums View Post
            Just an additional thought on the subject:

            We're told that our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life, before the foundations of the world were ever laid down.

            Meaning: God already knows/knew who will & won't ask for forgiveness & accept salvation.

            So in SOME sense, YES.
            I'd say we're saved before we know Jesus....but only because HE knows that we WILL ask, and our names ARE in the "Book of Life".

            Know what I mean?
            Yep! Great answer.
            V
            I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
            - Mahatma Gandhi



            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by markdrums View Post
              Just an additional thought on the subject:

              We're told that our names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life, before the foundations of the world were ever laid down.

              Meaning: God already knows/knew who will & won't ask for forgiveness & accept salvation.

              So in SOME sense, YES.
              I'd say we're saved before we know Jesus....but only because HE knows that we WILL ask, and our names ARE in the "Book of Life".

              Know what I mean?
              Which verse were you thinking of? Because some verses use a greek word that referrs to the different 'ages/world' that have come and gone, and others referr to the beginning of time (more or less). I beleive Christ was crucified before the foundation of this age, but he wasn't even born before the other ages.

              Wasn't it is flesh and blood that the made atonement for us on the cross? If so, how did that exist before time or the world was created/began? Surely he became flesh at some point in time, and wasn't that flesh crucified before he was even made flesh...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Julian View Post
                Which verse were you thinking of? Because some verses use a greek word that referrs to the different 'ages/world' that have come and gone, and others referr to the beginning of time (more or less). I beleive Christ was crucified before the foundation of this age, but he wasn't even born before the other ages.

                Wasn't it is flesh and blood that the made atonement for us on the cross? If so, how did that exist before time or the world was created/began? Surely he became flesh at some point in time, and wasn't that flesh crucified before he was even made flesh...

                I'm trying to remember where the verses are.... I'll keep digging.
                But in the mean time, I'll explain the context of what I said.

                God is the beginning and the end, and he KNOWS the beginning from the end.

                Before he created Heaven & Earth, he already knew us. He knew who we would be & what decisions we'll make.

                The actual crucifixion WAS the payment for our sins, & "sealed the deal" so to speak. Through our faith in Christ & by God's grace we are saved.

                If a person never asks for salvation and never puts his/her faith in Jesus, then they aren't saved...... and their names are not in the Book of Life.

                We can't comprehend what it is to be "outside of time". So to us, we see things as, before, during, and after. God however; sees things as, "They ARE". There's not really a past, present & future in his terms. Everything just "IS".

                So, Christ would have been crucified before the foundations of the world.

                And NOW... I'm getting to the point where I need to stop, because I can't comprehend exactly what that means, or how it works either!


                WHEW!

                Hopefully I made at least some sort of sense.
                Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
                _______________________________________________
                There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's understandable that in our knowledge of the Lord that we must eventually get to the point where our perception is so hindered by both his greatness and our fickle and fallen minds that we can go no further.
                  "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
                  -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

                  "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

                  Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by grit View Post
                    A saving knowledge of God is much more difficult to ‘pin down’, since I believe it essentially comes from God through the Holy Spirit as an awakening of our essence into new life through Christ. I believe this necessary for our salvation. I believe this is purposed by God before the creation of the world, and that it can occur in time at any point in one’s human life-cycle – from before birth right through our leaving our earthly bodies for elsewhere. In my own life I believe I was saved before I was born and that there has never been a time in my life when I wasn’t so saved.
                    Before you were born? Are you referring to being predestined and called or do you mean your sins were forgiven (subjectively as well as objectively) before you were born? You seem to be indicating that the salvation you now experience you also experienced before you were born. If so do you have Scripture backing?
                    ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                      I'm trying to remember where the verses are.... I'll keep digging.
                      But in the mean time, I'll explain the context of what I said.

                      God is the beginning and the end, and he KNOWS the beginning from the end.

                      Before he created Heaven & Earth, he already knew us. He knew who we would be & what decisions we'll make.

                      The actual crucifixion WAS the payment for our sins, & "sealed the deal" so to speak. Through our faith in Christ & by God's grace we are saved.

                      If a person never asks for salvation and never puts his/her faith in Jesus, then they aren't saved...... and their names are not in the Book of Life.

                      We can't comprehend what it is to be "outside of time". So to us, we see things as, before, during, and after. God however; sees things as, "They ARE". There's not really a past, present & future in his terms. Everything just "IS".

                      So, Christ would have been crucified before the foundations of the world.

                      And NOW... I'm getting to the point where I need to stop, because I can't comprehend exactly what that means, or how it works either!


                      WHEW!

                      Hopefully I made at least some sort of sense.
                      Thanks - but I need to wait for the scriptures instead of the rest first.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mcgyver View Post
                        If you're referring to the understanding or knowledge that Christ is both fully man and fully God; then my answer would be "yes", that it is possible to be saved without that specific understanding.

                        In fact, in my studies of 1st century culture, something has really stood out to me in regard to this very thing.

                        That is that most of the Gentile churches (who didn't have the "underpinning" of the law and prophets) consisted many times of people who didn't know much more than Jesus had touched their lives and changed them somehow.

                        It became the responsibility of those who were in the "offices" listed in Ephesians chapt 4 (Apostles, prophets, pastors-teachers, etc.) to then instruct them in "Christianity 101" as it were.
                        yes, this is what makes us different than others, is our witness for jesus,and our willingness to die for his name.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by crossnote View Post
                          Before you were born? Are you referring to being predestined and called or do you mean your sins were forgiven (subjectively as well as objectively) before you were born? You seem to be indicating that the salvation you now experience you also experienced before you were born. If so do you have Scripture backing?
                          Yes.
                          Well, we've touched on this in some of the baptism threads. There aren't a lot of Scriptures that cover in utero experiences. One might reference 1 Cor. vii. 14, Luke i. 41-44, Acts ii. 39, Rom. xi. 16, Gen. xvii. 7, Acts ii. 38-39, Rom. iv. 11-12, Mark x. 13-16, Luke xviii. 15-17, 2 Sam. xii. 23, Romans ix. 8-13.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [quote=grit;1945240]

                            I’m not meaning to ‘hedge’ on the question, but our looking at the issue gets a bit complicated, especially for a “New in Christ” thread and especially since there’s been considerable division among Christians throughout history on these issues; but delving into these complications can be very important.

                            I’d say, yes, salvation is from God and one can be saved before knowing who Jesus is. But in our discussions we often bring different understandings of what it means to be saved and to know Jesus. We bring even other understandings to the question of knowing whether we know we are/were saved, or can know. There are some pretty diverse perspectives among Christians here at Bibleforums, but I think I’m mostly in agreement with your perspective on these issues.

                            Here’s some of what I believe. As to knowledge, I believe there’s a distinction to be made between a general knowledge of God and a saving knowledge of God. I believe, for example, that Satan and deamons and each of us humans have an innate knowledge of God by virtue of being created by God – sort of like having it as part of our DNA. It’s for this reason I don’t believe in atheists – I think everyone has some built-in knowledge of God. I further believe that humans were created to fellowship rightly with God, so that when we’re not fellowshipping rightly with God we ‘notice’ that something is missing, something is wrong. This I would term a general knowledge of God, as distinct from a saving knowledge of God.

                            A saving knowledge of God is much more difficult to ‘pin down’, since I believe it essentially comes from God through the Holy Spirit as an awakening of our essence into new life through Christ. I believe this necessary for our salvation. I believe this is purposed by God before the creation of the world, and that it can occur in time at any point in one’s human life-cycle – from before birth right through our leaving our earthly bodies for elsewhere. In my own life I believe I was saved before I was born and that there has never been a time in my life when I wasn’t so saved. Further, I believe this saving knowledge also occurs at some level in our being that isn’t dependent on human intellect – that the mentally handicapped, for example, can be graced with this knowledge every bit as much as you or I. This saving knowledge, which, again, is of the Holy Spirit, brings with it such things as repentance from evil and a true love of God. We might not be humanly able to see the evidences of this in someone’s life, but usually we do – when, for example, someone visibly and vocally “turns their life over to God”, makes “confession of believing in God”, “accepts Jesus into their life”, “turns from their sinful ways”, and exhibits a “spirit-filled” life in Christ.

                            The whole matter of salvation is another issue – one we again often theologically complicate, just as the Bible does. In one since we are saved before the foundation of the world, in another we are saved in time when Christ Jesus died for our sins, in another we are saved when we receive the Holy Spirit, in another we are being saved daily through our Christian walk, in another we will not be ultimately saved until we are completely free of the presence of sin and eternally at home with the Lord. There are even further complications, particularly in considerations of when and in what order salvation occurs through the process of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
                            for a new christian you sure have a great understanding of the word! isnt the bible awesome. i will give you a rule of thumb that i find helps me to answer tough doctine issues. let the holy spirit reveal it to you and depend on him. for me when i hear something that doesnt sound correct a verse will pop into my head. like when i read your question acts 4:12 there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved. remember it all must fit together perfectly if it doesnt then go back and pray that the lord will give you the understanding. dont use any other resources except a concordance.ggggggggggggggggggggg
                            ]

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by grit View Post
                              Yes.
                              Well, we've touched on this in some of the baptism threads. There aren't a lot of Scriptures that cover in utero experiences. One might reference 1 Cor. vii. 14, Luke i. 41-44, Acts ii. 39, Rom. xi. 16, Gen. xvii. 7, Acts ii. 38-39, Rom. iv. 11-12, Mark x. 13-16, Luke xviii. 15-17, 2 Sam. xii. 23, Romans ix. 8-13.

                              I find the references quite vague. Althogh Acts 2:39 which you posted does state 'as many as call on the name

                              Here is one that may be more to the point.

                              Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
                              (Eph 2:2-3)
                              ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

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