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  • Over here Brothers

    Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
    YOUR NOT! Folks go to hell because of sin.

    The demons also knew that Jesus is the Son of God ... and TREMBLED!

    Yes, God does forgive all our sins when we put out faith in Him but if someone chooses to live a lifestyle of sin instead of serving their Lord out of love then... well, i'm glad i am not the judge and it is not too wise to tell folks they can live however they want to after they are saved, you will probably be held accountable for what you teach your brothers.

    The scriptures teach us that FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of WISDOM. Many today have forgotten God is Just and Holy as well as Love.

    Remember we are also told to REPENT! That means to turn from the sinful lifestyles not just ask forgiveness.
    People go to hell because they DIE in their sins without ever placing faith, if everyone went hell because of committing sins - we'd ALL go there...
    Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    <-- Pharisees never ENTERED heaven because they were self-righteous and DIED in their sins because of unbelief and WORKS! (Don't bother quoting 1 Corinthians 6:9 - it refers to INHERITANCES, not ENTERING heaven).

    Yeah the demons trembled because #1 Christ never died for them (he takes away the sin of MEN not demons), the demons will be punished #2 we SHOULD fear the Lord and not walk as fools. #3 works salvation is a "whore of babylon" thing.

    The word "repent" in the Greek is "metanoia" which means a CHANGE OF MIND - i.e. faith. Changing your mind from unbelief to believing. It actually has nothing to do with sins but faith.

    Psalm 49:6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
    Psalm 49:7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
    Someone might try to argue "but you must have works as a fruit of the spirit," yes works are good, BUT, faith itself is a fruit of the spirit:
    Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    If you DON'T have faith, you can't even please God anyhow - thus it creates a loophole, you HAVE to only rely on your faith to please God, works don't cut it:
    Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    And, most people aren't connected with the holy spirit because they don't use 1 John 1:9 by NAMING their sins to God to be purified (see Psalm 32:5)

    Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
    You can do all the works in the world - if you DON'T use 1 John 1:9, God WON'T hear you! You MUST be purified! Hence people go thinking works account whole or in part for salvation...

    IF anyone thinks we have to be "good" and "not sin" (which is impossible) to enter heaven - then gentiles cannot be saved, for, faith alone is the basis God used for salvation to the gentiles.

    I don't think sins are good at all - I try my best to live properly, but Paul himself sinned alot (he calls himself the CHIEF of sinners in 1 Timothy 1:15), most of the bible was also written by murderers (King David, Moses, Paul etc). Only pharisees and catholics think we can achieve being SINLESS ON OUR OWN! You CAN'T - you just name your sins to God.

  • #2
    Brother, i understand where your coming from but God is not just Grace. Yes, we are saved by faith and not by works. Even in the OT times faith is what saved but your interpretation of repenting, i cannot agree with. Read back through how John preached repentance. It starts in the heart but is not supposed to stop there.

    We are playing with words here. Folks go to hell because of SIN.

    If man had never sinned we would not have needed a Savior.

    We cannot know if a person is going to Heaven or not by what sin they commit but only by who the have faith in. We do not know if his wife is saved so how can we even guess that she is going to Heaven. I answered the question, if she could go to hell for sinning.

    Sorry if i missed the post that included her testimony.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      but God is not just Grace.
      Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
      Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
      If it's by works - then grace IS NO MORE GRACE!
      God is indeed only grace, no works or anything like that (don't distort God's grace into lasciviousness, or "filth" in other words) - first comes faith, then the maturation which the believer should stop doing bad things - if not, you'll be like the fellow in 1 Corinthians 5:5:
      1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      your interpretation of repenting, i cannot agree with.
      You accuse me for an "intrepretation" when I merely restate what the Greek word "metanoia" means for repentance - a change of mind - FAITH! A dictionary explanation of a Greek word isn't an interpretation I'm afraid... Catholics do the same distortion with Petra/Petros, trying to say they are the same; nope! Lexicons say they ARE different, so does Greek literature.

      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      It starts in the heart but is not supposed to stop there.
      We ALL sin, we ALL fall at times, get used to it. King David did many sinful things, Paul kept sinning throughout his whole apostleship and was wrought with sorrow about his persecutions of God's people. Paul mentions his distress with the sins that he struggled with:
      Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
      Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do
      Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      We are playing with words here. Folks go to hell because of SIN.
      Sin is the CAUSE FOR hell (the merits thereof) - but NOW you go to hell for unbelief for Christ has died for our sins. Think in the present...

      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      If man had never sinned we would not have needed a Savior.
      Well there you go! You just refuted your "the demons believe too" claim, for, Christ died for us and not the demons.

      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      We cannot know if a person is going to Heaven or not by what sin they commit but only by who the have faith in. We do not know if his wife is saved so how can we even guess that she is going to Heaven. I answered the question, if she could go to hell for sinning.
      If she placed faith in Christ paying for her sins, she is indeed going to heaven.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by devonrose742 View Post
        If it's by works - then grace IS NO MORE GRACE!
        God is indeed only grace, no works or anything like that (don't distort God's grace into lasciviousness, or "filth" in other words) - first comes faith, then the maturation which the believer should stop doing bad things - if not, you'll be like the fellow in 1 Corinthians 5:5:
        No, God saves us by His grace. He is so much more.

        Acts 5:1 ¶ But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
        2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
        3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? {to lie to: or, to deceive}
        4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
        5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
        6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
        7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
        8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
        9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
        10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
        11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

        Did I miss something here? I do not see God showing even more grace to this couple even though they are giving money to the church

        1 Cor 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
        2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
        3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, {judged: or, determined}
        4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
        5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
        6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
        7 ¶ Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: {is sacrificed; or, is slain}
        8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. {the feast: or, holyday}
        9 ¶ I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

        You mentioned this guy so you know Paul is teaching to not let sin go without punishment within the church so that others are not lead astray!

        You accuse me for an "intrepretation" when I merely restate what the Greek word "metanoia" means for repentance - a change of mind - FAITH! A dictionary explanation of a Greek word isn't an interpretation I'm afraid... Catholics do the same distortion with Petra/Petros, trying to say they are the same; nope! Lexicons say they ARE different, so does Greek literature.
        i "accuse" you for your use of the word, not it's definition.
        3340. metanoew metanoeo, met-an-o-eh'-o from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
        If you truly change the way you think, it should show in what you do.

        We ALL sin, we ALL fall at times, get used to it. King David did many sinful things, Paul kept sinning throughout his whole apostleship and was wrought with sorrow about his persecutions of God's people. Paul mentions his distress with the sins that he struggled with:
        John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
        Jesus said that "sin no more" part, not Buckshot

        Sin is the CAUSE FOR hell (the merits thereof) - but NOW you go to hell for unbelief for Christ has died for our sins. Think in the present...
        so you think folks that don't believe that Jesus died for their sins are not under the law anymore? What does the present have to do with it? We who put our faith in Jesus truly live in His grace but those who do not are still under the schoolmaster
        Well there you go! You just refuted your "the demons believe too" claim, for, Christ died for us and not the demons.
        you are just too funny

        If she placed faith in Christ paying for her sins, she is indeed going to heaven.
        In this i agree

        Comment


        • #5
          If your a christian and you sin. Then ask God to forgive you. I John !:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrightousness.
          But if that person chooses to live a life compleatly oposit the Bible without ever asking for forgivness than that is a compleatly different story.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
            No, God saves us by His grace. He is so much more.
            Did I miss something here? I do not see God showing even more grace to this couple even though they are giving money to the church
            Acts 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
            Acts 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
            Ananias was punished by God (God ended his life) because he didn't use 1 John 1:9:
            Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
            Ananias was already saved of course (and that's what grace is) - but if you get out of God's system, things slowly worsen like Ananias' story. There are many other instances of this too - King David almost became like Ananias, but, David quickly learned 1 John 1:9 (hence Psalm 32:5).
            Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
            5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
            woah woah woah, you're playing with a translation, "may" is an added word by the KJV translations (and by may, they don't mean it's a questioning issue, which shows you're desparate here - King James said you're only saved by faith, and NOT by works)
            To deliverG3860 such an oneG5108 unto SatanG4567 forG1519 the destructionG3639 of theG3588 flesh,G4561 thatG2443 theG3588 spiritG4151 may be savedG4982 inG1722 theG3588 dayG2250 of theG3588 LordG2962 Jesus.G2424
            "may be saved" is simply one word in the Greek which is "sozo" (meaning saved).

            Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
            6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
            This has nothing to do with salvation, but concerning our status on earth.
            Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
            9 ¶ I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
            You SHOULDN'T fornicate, but again, nothing to do with salvation, just ethics and growing with the Word.
            Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
            You mentioned this guy so you know Paul is teaching to not let sin go without punishment within the church so that others are not lead astray! i "accuse" you for your use of the word, not it's definition.
            3340. metanoew metanoeo, met-an-o-eh'-o from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
            If you truly change the way you think, it should show in what you do. John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
            Jesus said that "sin no more" part, not Buckshot
            so you think folks that don't believe that Jesus died for their sins are not under the law anymore? What does the present have to do with it? We who put our faith in Jesus truly live in His grace but those who do not are still under the schoolmaster you are just too funny
            Well if you truly believed your "punishment within the church" definition, you wouldn't be so hasty to underline "MAY" (which as I outlined, is only one word in the Greek - but you quickly support your agenda, you try to pick out things in mere translations)
            1st Corinthians 6:18: Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
            John 5:14 – Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
            When Jesus said "sin no more," he meant to stop sinning unless diseases would arise, (lest a WORSE thing come unto thee). Also, Paul writes by doing "fornication" you sin unto your BODY - i.e. possibilities of disease. Since I cleared up 1 Corinthians 5:5 for you, that shows if one falls unto Satan, he shall still be saved (don't go trying to contradict that verse like you've already been attempting).
            John 9:2-3 – “And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? And Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents; but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.”
            See, the disciples were confused when they saw the blind man since negative afflications back then were associated with sins (like Job's case), of course when Jesus said "neither hath this man sinned," he meant his blindness wasn't the cause of sin - we're all sinners:
            Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
            Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
            Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JK18 View Post
              If your a christian and you sin. Then ask God to forgive you. I John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrightousness.
              But if that person chooses to live a life compleatly oposit the Bible without ever asking for forgivness than that is a compleatly different story.
              There is no "asking for forgiveness," (that's not even a bible term if I'm not mistaken, "forgiveness" is, but it's always on GOD'S END)
              Psalm 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
              You simply ACKNOWLEDGE (or NAME) your sins, THEN you are PURIFIED. You see, salvation first comes when you do John 3:16 and believe Christ paid for your sins, THEN comes purification. There is never no instance where a believer "asked for forgiveness" in the bible.

              The Publican never said "God I ask for forgiveness" (for it's not a questioning matter, God DOES it when you BELIEVE):
              Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
              Originally posted by JK18 View Post
              But if that person chooses to live a life compleatly oposit the Bible without ever asking for forgivness than that is a compleatly different story
              If you don't "purify" yourself (like most believers), then you won't be connected to the Holy Spirit (Psalm 66:18), it's not a "different story" or questioning matter. If you live a life opposite to the bible, then you could become like Ananias, still saved, but spiritually dead and heading for consequences.

              Comment


              • #8
                You really do get me to smilin'

                Thanks.

                Thing is, we cannot see into anyone else's heart.
                Where do you read that Ananias was saved? You are posting about adding things like "asking for forgiveness" into the Bible and that I misuse the "may" (which did cause me to chuckle, thanks again). Yet you assume that Ananias is saved, why?

                Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: {strait: or, narrow}
                14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. {Because: or, How}
                15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
                16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
                17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
                18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
                19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
                20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
                21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
                22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
                23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
                24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
                25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
                26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

                Here I will help you to break it down into the Greek so we don't mistake anything
                Mt 7:23 kai tote homologeo autos hoti oudepote ginosko humas apochoreo apo emou ergazomai anomia

                Jesus will say, I never knew you to some that call upon His name. I know what you have been saying but you have to be careful in telling folks they don't have any worries. You cannot see in their hearts and do not know their intents.It would be sad to teach someone that they are doin just fine and don't need to change anything and then at judgement find out that they had never really placed their faith in Jesus because they were told they were okay like they were.

                We can know a true Brother and Sister by their works... Jesus said that, not me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                  You really do get me to smilin'
                  20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
                  We can know a true Brother and Sister by their works... Jesus said that, not me.
                  Actually no, Jesus said you shall know them by THEIR FRUITS - not WORKS. In fact, the term "fruit" is NEVER associated to "works" (I'm perplexed by christendom thinks a fruit is a work).

                  So let's recap, what is the FRUIT of the spirit?
                  Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
                  Ahhh FAITH! The fruit of the spirit brings FAITH! ("works" isn't even mentioned in that list may I add).
                  So... YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FAITH! A catholic or buddhist can do good WORKS, but what is that when you can't test THEIR FAITH?

                  Fruit is produced by the Holy Spirit, for, WORKS ARE OF GOD NOT US!
                  Numbers 16:28 And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind.
                  John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
                  So, the work OF GOD is for us to BELIEVE - thus faith which is a fruit of the spirit, hence it's GOD'S work.
                  Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
                  There is no "we" or "us," ONLY God!

                  It is true only "GOD" knows, but, that's taking away from salvation, which is only faith:
                  2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
                  As for Ananias, yes, he was saved, compare these two verses:
                  Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
                  Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
                  Obviously Ananias had the Holy Spirit in order to LIE to the Spirit... If he wasn't saved, Peter wouldn't even be talking to him in a stern way saying he was rebelling against God, those who don't KNOW God don't care and WON'T understand...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would love for you to visit with my 18 yr old son

                    He just preached a message the other day about Faith that Works.

                    This is what real faith does. It works, this is just the way true faith is.

                    Maybe you don't understand because you have never taken the time to watch a fruit tree grow. Fruit is the end result of a lot of things happening. Hence "the fruit of the Spirit". Fruit doint just happen to get on the trees. The tree has to have water, sun, and minerals to grow.

                    Many "christians" today think all they need to do is believe and God will pour the fruits out to them. As a wise guy around here says "BLAH, BLAH,BLAH..."

                    A true walk with God is was it is, a walk. You cannot just sit around and call yourself a servant of the Most High. He expects you to be "serving".

                    One day we will all be judged. I added a verse so you can be assured that even the saved will be judged. The quick and the dead verses say more to me but i figured you would try to pick those apart

                    Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                      I would love for you to visit with my 18 yr old son
                      I'm only 17, so, it would be more appropriate if you had someone older to discuss Bible stuff.

                      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                      This is what real faith does. It works, this is just the way true faith is.
                      There's only one kind of faith, there aren't different "levels" of it (people ADD verbs to faith, like GENUINE faith, or REAL faith; when these extra words are not in the Bible - just faith - all it takes is a drop).
                      Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
                      another context would be with Romans 10:12.
                      I would also reccomend this article by David J. Stewart:
                      http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/salva...e_unbelief.htm <-- Christian Baptist Website

                      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                      Maybe you don't understand because you have never taken the time to watch a fruit tree grow.
                      Many "christians" today think all they need to do is believe and God will pour the fruits out to them. As a wise guy around here says "BLAH, BLAH,BLAH..."
                      How does that person GROW fruit? hmm?
                      1Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
                      BY READING THE WORD OF GOD! Not by "works." You can't grow spiritually if you sit at a food bank all day, you NEED to Word of God to grow to bear fruit - WHICH, faith comes by hearing the Word of God inevitably... So you're stuck in a loophole of FAITH + BIBLE. Works are done IN faith, not FOR faith.

                      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                      A true walk with God is was it is, a walk. You cannot just sit around and call yourself a servant of the Most High. He expects you to be "serving".
                      Again you're adding verbs again "faith" and "TRUE faith" and now "walk with God" or "TRUE walk with God."
                      It is correct you SHOULD not be lazy - BUT, if you were lazy what does that mean? That means you're not studing the Word (1 peter 2:2 as mentioned before). No matter what you do, as long as you placed faith, you become a "Son of God," just because WE'RE lazy doesn't mean God is... People who go harping on works never usually themselves do anything, they just say "you must do works" out of pure tradition thinking it gives them some kind of enlightenment and righteousness by merely parroting...
                      2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
                      However, the point is that you're not RELYING on your works to save you, or think they surpass faith, faith is the median for our spirituality.

                      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                      One day we will all be judged. I added a verse so you can be assured that even the saved will be judged. The quick and the dead verses say more to me but i figured you would try to pick those apart
                      Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
                      Of course we will all be judged, we SHOULD not walk as fools. Just because one is saved [only] by faith doesn't mean God slacks off and won't punish for the merits thereof. People seem to think "saved by faith" means you're lazy? Not quite, it means Christ died on the cross for us and that there is NOTHING good in us but Christ alone.
                      Works are of God and not of ourselves (thus WE use faith for God to operate in us), I quoted enough verses to prove that.
                      Moses didn't say "all of these miracles and works I have done of MYSELF because I'm a self-righteous pharisee that thinks our rotten sinful nature can actually have something good."
                      Only faith.

                      I again direct your countenance to these verses:
                      Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
                      Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
                      Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
                      Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
                      I would also direct you to an article I wrote on the Pharisees (how modern Pharisees are thriving):
                      http://christkeep.com/articles/modern_pharisees.html <-- modern pharisees

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                      • #12
                        I knew you were both about the same age You seem to be a lot alike and both think you have it all figured out. I was like that about twenty years ago too. This is why it would be fun to watch ya'll debate over wording

                        The older i get the more i realize i have a lot more to learn...

                        Mt 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

                        Ro 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

                        Ac 6:8 ¶ And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people

                        Lu 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

                        There are differant amounts of faith my brother. God does put things in our lives to increase our faith. Just like i mentioned fruit trees need things to grow, so do we. It is easy to say we have faith when everything is going okay but when trials (hard times) come we find out in who our faith rests. Many people do not have a real faith in the Lord and when the trials come, they end up denying that God really cares about them. Others can take whatever they come against, because they know God will deliver them through (by faith). So for the first group, their faith weaked and for the second, it became stronger.

                        At your age you will face many trials (if the Lord tarries His return). I will pray for you as I do my son, that you will both face the trials of this world by faith in our Lord. That your faith will grow as mighty servants of the Lord. (Even though you do not believe faith grows )

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                          I knew you were both about the same age You seem to be a lot alike and both think you have it all figured out. I was like that about twenty years ago too. This is why it would be fun to watch ya'll debate over wording
                          I never once said I had it all "figured out," (if I thought like that, I'd still be a lordship salvationist like many people and ignorant of only faith saves) on the contrary I'm still learning - perhaps you thought I thought I did not need to study, this is a poor view since learning is INFINITE - particularly God's knowledge. However, if you get salvation [by faith] wrong, you get everything wrong - it's like a row of dominos.
                          2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
                          Obviously many love to use the demeanor of age as an advantage - sadly, spiritual growth is separate to physical growth, if only people would realize that.

                          Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                          There are differant amounts of faith my brother. God does put things in our lives to increase our faith.

                          To increase your waywards to him, yes, but you can't increase faith when IT IS, perhaps awareness and STRENGTHEN the bond. Faith isn't a substance that is measured (don't go quoting the falsely translated Hebrews 11:1), it is a belief - and you either believe in God, or you don't - like binaries 0 or 1; there is no 0.5. You can DOUBT (which is what Jesus was getting at), but that's a lack of faith (i.e. none at that moment) - it doesn't mean you didn't believe beforehand though - when the apostles lacked their faith, they couldn't heal for they had none! Sometimes it's hard in that respect - but then you simply use 1 John 1:9, study the Bible.

                          Again, please read Brother Stewart's article... David J. Stewart expounds on it in more detail than I wish to do so here.

                          Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                          Just like i mentioned fruit trees need things to grow, so do we. It is easy to say we have faith when everything is going okay but when trials (hard times) come we find out in who our faith rests. Many people do not have a real faith in the Lord and when the trials come, they end up denying that God really cares about them. Others can take whatever they come against, because they know God will deliver them through (by faith). So for the first group, their faith weaked and for the second, it became stronger.

                          Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
                          Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
                          Again, you add the verb "real faith," please point to me where it shows REAL faith in Luke. It doesn't. You either believe (1) or don't (0). Please stop changing fruit into works, and faith into REAL faith.
                          You'll notice the Bible says you can LOSE your faith if the BONDING is weak.

                          Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                          At your age you will face many trials (if the Lord tarries His return). I will pray for you as I do my son, that you will both face the trials of this world by faith in our Lord. That your faith will grow as mighty servants of the Lord. (Even though you do not believe faith grows )
                          How can my faith change when it is static? You grow by the WORD, your faith is only the bridge (in which you either believe or don't - I sure hope you can grasp that concept). Knowledge of the Bible through 1 John 1:9 grows - but my belief in God cannot grow for I KNOW Christ IS.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by devonrose742 View Post

                            Again, please read Brother Stewart's article... David J. Stewart expounds on it in more detail than I wish to do so here.

                            Again, you add the verb "real faith," please point to me where it shows REAL faith in Luke. It doesn't. You either believe (1) or don't (0). Please stop changing fruit into works, and faith into REAL faith.
                            You'll notice the Bible says you can LOSE your faith if the BONDING is weak.

                            How can my faith change when it is static? You grow by the WORD, your faith is only the bridge (in which you either believe or don't - I sure hope you can grasp that concept). Knowledge of the Bible through 1 John 1:9 grows - but my belief in God cannot grow for I KNOW Christ IS.
                            I did read the article, I just don't agree with his view on faith (i'm a Baptist preacher too). Don't get me wrong, i know that even a little faith (size of a mustard seed) can move mountains but there are no limits to a lot of faith (size the mustard tree grows too)

                            I feel there are degrees of faith. Hence the "little faith" and "full of faith" verses. I use "real" faith because many people do not understand faith and use it wrong. I believe faith is to trust that Jesus did what He said for me and is going to finish what He started in my life. For this I will serve Him the rest of eternity (this is where the works come in ). Faith is not just to believe. Remember satan and his followers also believe and tremble. They know what power Jesus has and fears Him but does not serve Him.

                            Faith does come by the Word but I believe God using the things that happen in our lives to increase (grow) our faith. Our faith grows when we see our prayers answered and when we see how our Lord blesses us. Our faith also grows stronger when we pass through a really tough time.

                            I don't understand the part highlighted in red that you wrote. Where does it say we can lose our faith because of bonding? If you can then how is it static?

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                            • #15
                              I was referring to MY faith as static, those who are WEAK in the faith can lose it (Satan is always devising ways for one to stumble or give up altogether - they will still be saved even if they placed for a second of course). I am not weak in my faith - in my position it's clearly blatant Christ is the truth.

                              I know you don't agree with David J. Stewart - that is why this thread exists as it does.

                              I would refrain from debating with you now, God shall deal with you more than I can.

                              Jesus Bless

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