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  • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

    Originally posted by HammerHead View Post
    In my persoonlike opinie, is dit egter satan wat al hierdie dinge so mooi laat plaasvind in Israel, dat dit lyk of dit die beloftes van God aan Israel is, wat op hulle uitgestort word...En satan weet dat 1000de daarvoor sal val, en hulle fokus van God laat afdwaal na n fisiese nasie toe...
    Jy sal bepaalde deelnemrs hier na bloedrukpille dryf met sulke menings HH !

    Ek moet sÍ, reg of verkeerd, en of mens nou saamstem met hierdie stelling of nie, bly dit 'n baie interesante opmerking hierdie wat mens nogals laat nadink .....

    Comment


    • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

      Johnny, maak jou hart oop vir die woorde van Jesus.

      Comment


      • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

        Originally posted by Skillie View Post
        Johnny, maak jou hart oop vir die woorde van Jesus.
        Kom ek probeer....



        Markus 13:35 Waak dan, want julle weet nie wanneer die eienaar van die huis kom nie: in die aand of middernag of met die haangekraai of vroeg in die mŰre nie;
        Markus 13:36 dat hy nie miskien skielik kom en julle aan die slaap vind nie.
        Markus 13:37 En wat Ek vir julle sÍ, sÍ Ek vir almal: Waak!

        Comment


        • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

          Ons Plig ten Opsigte van Jerusalem
          Prof Johan Malan



          “Bid om die vrede van Jerusalem; mag hulle wat jou liefhet, rustig lewe” (Ps. 122:6). “O Jerusalem, Ek het wagte op jou mure uitgesit wat gedurigdeur die hele dag en die hele nag nie sal swyg nie. O Julle wat die Here herinner aan sy beloftes – moenie rus nie en laat Hom nie met rus nie, totdat Hy Jerusalem bevestig en maak tot ’n lof op aarde! (Jes. 62:6-7).
          Waarom word daar net een stad in die hele wÍreld uitgesonder waarvoor Christene van alle tye ernstig moet bid, totdat die heerlikheid van die Here op diť stad neerdaal sodat almal, van alle eindes van die aarde af, dit sal kan sien en in die vreugde van Jerusalem kan deel?
          Die feit dat Jerusalem vir hierdie eer uitgesonder word, vereis van alle Christene om ten volle bewus te wees van die diep geestelike betekenis van hierdie stad, want dit alleen verklaar die feit waarom Jerusalem veral in die eindtyd op die voorpunt staan van die stryd tussen lig en duisternis. Sonder hierdie kennis kan ons nie sinvol vir Jerusalem bid nie, kan ons nie Jerusalem se vyande duidelik genoeg waarsku nie, en sal ons ook nie genoegsame profetiese insig hÍ in die wonderlike toekoms van die stad van die Groot Koning nie!
          Volgens die Bybel gaan Jerusalem deur die volgende tien stadiums totdat die Here se finale doel daarmee bereik sal wees. Ons is tans in die vyfde stadium van hierdie merkwaardige stad se heilsgeskiedenis, en die Here verwag van ons om waardige ondersteuners van Jerusalem te wees en die geestelike belange van hierdie stad en sy inwoners altyd op die hart te dra.

          1. Die stad wat God gekies het om Homself daarin te openbaar



          Jerusalem se heilsgeskiedenis het begin toe die Here ’n besluit geneem het om sy Naam vir altyd aan hierdie stad te verbind. Nadat Salomo die eerste tempel in Jerusalem gebou het, het die Here gesÍ: “Ek het hierdie huis wat jy gebou het, geheilig deur my Naam daar te vestig tot in ewigheid” (1 Kon. 9:3). Jerusalem is deur God genoem: “Die stad wat Ek vir My verkies het om my Naam daar te vestig” (1 Kon. 11:36).
          God se Naam is vir ewig aan Jerusalem verbonde. Min het Israel besef watter groot en wonderlike openbarings die Here in toekomstige eeue in Jerusalem sou doen. Die verskeie lang onderbrekings in die uitvoering van hierdie plan was te wyte aan Israel se ongeloof, maar nooit het die Here van sy aanvanklike voorneme met betrekking tot Jerusalem afgesien nie, en Hy sal dit ook nooit doen nie. In die Ou Testament het Hy Homself dikwels deur middel van die tempeldiens in Jerusalem aan die volk geopenbaar, maar dit het nie tot ’n blywende hartsverandering by hulle gelei nie.

          2. Die stad van Christus se openbarings aan die mensdom



          Die grootste openbaring van God aan Israel ťn die hele mensdom het plaasgevind tydens die koms van sy Seun, Jesus, na die aarde. In ’n Messiaanse profesie in Jesaja 49 het God van Jesus gesÍ: “Dit is te gering dat U my Kneg sou wees om op te rig die stamme van Jakob en terug te bring die gespaardes in Israel: Ek het U gemaak tot ’n lig van die nasies, om my heil te wees tot aan die einde van die aarde” (Jes. 49:6). Johannes die Doper het na Hom gewys en gesÍ: “Daar is die Lam van God wat die sonde van die wÍreld wegneem!” (Joh. 1:29).
          God het Homself deur sy Seun aan Jerusalem se inwoners openbaar, maar hulle het dit ten spyte van talle duidelike Messiaanse profesieŽ nie raakgesien nie, en Hom verwerp. Jesus is in ’n proses van beplande verraad gevange geneem, in die stad verhoor en onskuldig veroordeel. Die Here Jesus is net buite Jerusalem by Gůlgota, in die steengroewe van Salomo, gekruisig. Hier is die groot soenoffer vir die sondes van ’n verlore mensdom aan God betaal. Vir ewig sal Gůlgota uitstaan as die uitdrukking van God se neerbuigende liefde en vergewensgesindheid, en as die enigste poort tot die ewige lewe. Daar is geen ander naam onder die hemel gegee waardeur mense gered kan word nie – net Jesus Christus en Hom as die gekruisigde.
          Jesus is net buite die stadsgebied van Jerusalem begrawe en het drie dae later uit die dood opgestaan. Op die Sondag van sy opstanding het Hy die eerste preek van die Christelike bedeling in Jerusalem aan sy dissipels gelewer, en ’n week later die tweede een (Joh. 20:19-29). Veertig dae nŠ sy opstanding het Jesus van die Olyfberg af na die hemel opgevaar. Nťt voor dit het Hy die opdrag van wÍreldevangelisasie aan sy dissipels gegee. Dit sou egter eers gebeur nadat nůg ’n belangrike heilsgebeurtenis in Jerusalem plaasgevind het.

          3. Die stad waar die Heilige Gees se wÍreldwye werk begin het



          Die Christelike kerk het sy ontstaan in Jerusalem gehad, waar die Heilige Gees op Pinksterdag oor 120 getroue dissipels uitgestort is. Hulle het ’n duidelike opdrag gekry om hiervoor te wag, want sonder die krag van die Heilige Gees sou hulle nie in ’n vyandige wÍreld getuies vir die verwerpte Christus kon wees nie:
          “En Hy sÍ vir hulle: So is dit geskrywe, en so moes die Christus ly en op die derde dag uit die dode opstaan, en bekering en vergewing van sondes in sy Naam verkondig word aan al die nasies, van Jerusalem af en verder. En julle is getuies van hierdie dinge. En kyk, Ek stuur die belofte van my Vader op julle. Maar julle moet in die stad Jerusalem bly totdat julle toegerus is met krag uit die hoogte” (Luk. 24:46-49).
          Dit was die belofte van die Heilige Gees: “Julle sal krag ontvang wanneer die Heilige Gees oor julle kom, en julle sal my getuies wees in Jerusalem sowel as in die hele Judťa en Samaria en tot aan die uiterste van die aarde” (Hand. 1:8). Op Pinksterdag, toe die Heilige Gees oor die dissipels uitgestort is, het die proses van wÍreldevangelisasie begin. Op daardie dag is drieduisend siele gered en het die kerk van Christus sy geboorte in Jerusalem gehad. Daarvandaan sou die boodskap in die hele wÍreld verkondig word, van Jerusalem af en verder.

          4. Die vertrapte stad tydens Israel se ongeloof en die wÍreldwye sendingopdrag



          Waarom was Jerusalem regdeur die Nuwe Testamentiese bedeling ’n vertrapte stad, en in hierdie betreurenswaardige toestand baie ver daarvandaan om aan sy roeping te beantwoord as die stad van God? Omdat Israel nie hulle Messias aangeneem het nie, en dus nie hulle roeping as God se volk kon vervul om vanuit Jerusalem die boodskap van die Messias se reddende genade na die wÍreld uit te dra nie. Die Here Jesus het Jerusalem en sy inwoners geoordeel weens hulle ongeloof:
          “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, jy wat die profete doodmaak en stenig diť wat na jou gestuur is, hoe dikwels wou Ek jou kinders bymekaarmaak net soos ’n hen haar kuikens onder die vlerke bymekaarmaak, en julle wou nie! Kyk, julle huis word vir julle woes gelaat! Want Ek sÍ vir julle: Julle sal My van nou af sekerlik nie sien nie totdat julle sal sÍ: GeseŽnd is Hy wat kom in die Naam van die Here!” (Matt. 23:37-39). Op ’n vraag oor hierdie profesie het die Here Jesus gesÍ dat daar in Jerusalem nie een klip op die ander gelaat sal word wat nie afgebreek sal word nie (Matt. 24:2).
          Israel is uit hulle stad verdryf en die bedeling van wÍreldevangelisasie het begin – ’n taak wat hoofsaaklik deur nie-Joodse Christene uitgevoer word. Die Here Jesus het in sy profetiese rede gesÍ: “Jerusalem sal vertrap word deur die nasies totdat die tye van die nasies vervul is” (Luk. 21:24). Uit die formulering van hierdie stelling kan ons baie duidelik aflei dat die Here se plan met Israel en Jerusalem nie gekanselleer is nie, want Jerusalem sou net vertrap word totdat die tye van die nasies vervul is. Die tye van die nasies dui op die tyd van wÍreldevangelisasie. Aan die einde van die kerkbedeling můťt Israel en Jerusalem dus herstel word om hulle belangrike toekomstige rol te vervul.
          Paulus sluit ook hierby aan wanneer hy sÍ: “Want ek wil nie hÍ, broeders, dat julle hierdie verborgenheid nie moet weet nie, sodat julle nie eiewys mag wees nie: dat die verharding ten dele oor Israel gekom het totdat die volheid van die heidene ingegaan het; en so sal die hele Israel gered word, soos geskrywe is: Die Verlosser sal uit Sion kom en die goddelooshede van Jakob afwend” (Rom. 11:25-26).
          Soos reeds aangedui, het Jesus vir die Jode in Jerusalem gesÍ dat hulle Hom nie weer sou sien nie totdat hulle sal sÍ: “GeseŽnd is Hy wat kom in die Naam van die Here!” Wanneer Hy weer kom, sal Israel Hom sekerlik as Messias-Koning aanvaar!
          Niemand kan teen die waarheid stry dat Israel net tydelik verhard geraak en verstrooi is nie, want in die onlangse geskiedenis is daar oorvloedige bewyse van die eindtydse herstel van Israel en Jerusalem. Die volk is in 1948 in hulle land herstel na byna 2 000 jaar van verstrooiing onder die nasies. Die ou deel van Jerusalem is in 1967 van JordaniŽ verower en het toe weer onder Joodse beheer gekom. In 1980 is Jerusalem tot die ewige en onverdeelbare hoofstad van Israel verklaar, en was dit vir die eerste keer sedert die Babiloniese ballingskap weer die hoofstad van ’n onafhanklike Israel. Tydens die Here Jesus se eerste koms was die stad onder die beheer van die Romeine. Tans is die stad volledig onder Joodse beheer, maar sy politieke en geestelike herstel sal eers finaal wees wanneer die Messias gekom en die troon van Dawid herstel het.

          5. Die stad waarin Israel te midde van groot vyandigheid herstel word



          Die huidige herstelproses van Israel is nog net gedeeltelik, en die meerderheid van die volk is nog steeds geestelik dood. Die Here laat om twee redes vyandighede teen Israel en Jerusalem toe:
          Die eerste rede is om sy volk in benoudheid te bring sodat hulle gelouter en ’n oorblyfsel gered kan word. In ’n profesie oor hulle eindtydse loutering sÍ Hy: “Daarom, so sÍ die Here Here: Omdat julle almal skuim geword het, kyk, daarom sal Ek julle binne-in Jerusalem bymekaarmaak. Soos silwer en koper en yster en lood en tin binne-in ’n smeltoond bymekaargemaak word om daarteen ’n vuur aan te blaas en dit te smelt, so sal Ek julle bymekaarmaak in my toorn en in my grimmigheid en julle ingooi en smelt” (Eseg. 22:19-20). Israel se huidige probleme gaan nog veel erger word terwyl hulle afstuur op die tyd van benoudheid van Jakob, waaruit net ’n oorblyfsel gered sal word (Jer. 30:7). In Hosťa 5:15 sÍ die Messias: “In hulle nood sal hulle My soek.”
          Die tweede rede waarom vyandighede teen Jerusalem eskaleer, is omdat die Here die nasies in Israel gaan versamel om by die slag van Armagťddon met hulle in die gerig te tree weens hulle sondes wat onder andere ook met Jodehaat gepaard gaan. In Sagaria 12:3 en 14:2 sÍ die Here dat al die nasies teen Jerusalem vergader sal word en dat Hy daar met hulle in gerig sal tree. Volgens Sagaria 14:12-13 sal dit verskriklik wees om te val in die hande van die lewende God. JoŽl 3:2 bevestig ook die feit dat die Here die nasies sal oordeel omdat hulle die volk Israel verstrooi en hulle land verdeel het.

          6. Die stad van die Antichris se sewe jaar-lange regering



          Daar wag in die nabye toekoms ’n baie donker tydperk van sewe jaar vir Jerusalem en die hele wÍreld. Volgens Johannes 5:43 gaan Israel die Antichris as Messias aanvaar, en volgens DaniŽl 9:27 gaan al die nasies ook dieselfde fout maak. Dit gaan daartoe lei dat die Antichris gedurende die sewe jaar van die verdrukking vir Jerusalem een van die hoofkwartiere van sy goddelose wÍreldregering gaan maak.
          Met sy toestemming sal die tempel hier herbou word, maar hy gaan self die tempel ontheilig deur homself daarin tot God te verklaar. Paulus verwys na die Antichris as “die teŽstander wat hom verhef bo al wat God genoem word, ... sodat hy in die tempel van God as God sal sit en voorgee dat hy God is” (2 Thess. 2:4). Eers dan sal die Jode besef dat hulle die verkeerde persoon as Messias aanvaar het, en hulle verbond met hom verbreek. Die Antichris sal daarop ’n Joodse volksmoord gelas en hulle sal so vinnig as moontlik uit Jerusalem moet vlug na ’n skuilplek iewers in die berge. Die Here Jesus het hulle op die komende krisis voorberei:
          “Wanneer julle dan die gruwel van die verwoesting, waarvan gespreek is deur die profeet DaniŽl, sien staan in die heiligdom … dan moet diť wat in Judťa is na die berge vlug; … Want dan sal daar groot verdrukking wees soos daar van die begin van die wÍreld af tot nou toe nie gewees het en ook nooit sal wees nie. En as daardie dae nie verkort was nie, sou geen vlees gered word nie; maar ter wille van die uitverkorenes sal daardie dae verkort word” (Matt. 24:15-16, 21-22).
          ’n Messiaanse Jood, Arthur Katz, waarsku ook sy volksgenote oor die groot aanslag wat die valse messias en sy wÍreldmagte op hulle gaan maak. Hy sÍ: “Ek sou liewer verkeerd bewys wou word, maar ek glo dat die huidige geslag Jode vernietiging op ᾿n wÍreldwye skaal gaan ervaar wat veel erger as die Nazi-era sal wees. Ons gaan geweldig gehaat, vervolg en skielik verdryf word sodat ons sal moet vlug met net die klere aan ons lyf – sonder om te weet waarheen ons gaan. Die Here het gesÍ Hy sal met ons in die gerig tree, maar Hy sal ook herstel” (The Holocaust – Where was God?) Aan die einde van hierdie donker tonnel van die groot verdrukking sal die lig van die Messias se koms op die oorblyfsel van Israel skyn.

          7. Die stad waar Christus Homself in heerlikheid gaan openbaar



          Jerusalem is onteenseglik die toneel vir Christus se wederkoms: “En in diť dag sal sy voete staan op die Olyfberg wat voor Jerusalem lÍ, aan die oostekant; en die Olyfberg sal middeldeur gesplyt word van oos na wes tot ’n baie groot dal… En julle sal vlug in die dal van my berge. Dan sal die Here my God kom, al die heiliges met U!” (Sag. 14:4-5). By hierdie geleentheid sal die Messias die oorblyfsel van Israel red, maar hulle vyande veroordeel. Die Here sÍ die volgende oor die nasionale redding van Israel:
          “Oor die huis van Dawid en die inwoners van Jerusalem sal Ek uitgiet die Gees van genade en smekinge; en hulle sal opsien na My vir wie hulle deurboor het, en hulle sal oor Hom rouklaag soos ’n mens rouklaag oor ’n enigste seun en bitterlik oor Hom ween soos ’n mens bitterlik ween oor ’n eersgebore kind. … In diť dag sal daar ’n geopende fontein wees vir die huis van Dawid en vir die inwoners van Jerusalem teen sonde en onreinheid. … Hulle sal my Naam aanroep, en Ek sal hulle verhoor. Ek sÍ: Dit is my volk! En hulle sal sÍ: Die Here, my God!” (Sag. 12:10; 13:1,9).
          Nadat die volk met die Here Jesus versoen is, sal Hy ook die troon van Dawid in Jerusalem herstel. Dan sal ’n belofte vervul word wat die engel van die Here reeds voor Jesus se geboorte aan Maria gemaak het: “Hy sal groot wees en die Seun van die Allerhoogste genoem word; en die Here God sal aan Hom die troon van sy vader Dawid gee” (Luk. 1:32). Jesus het nog nooit van die troon van Dawid af regeer nie, maar nŠ sy wederkoms sal Hy dit wel doen: “Daarna sal Ek terugkom en die vervalle hut van Dawid weer oprig, en wat daarvan verwoes is, sal Ek weer oprig en dit herstel, sodat die oorblyfsel van die mense die Here kan soek, en al die nasies oor wie my Naam uitgeroep is, spreek die Here wat al hierdie dinge doen” (Hand. 15:16-17).

          8. Die stad van die groot Koning tydens die vrederyk



          ’n Wonderlike toekoms wag op Jerusalem wanneer die stad in die duisendjarige vrederyk die hoofstad van die wÍreld sal wees vanwaar die Messias sal regeer: “Skoon deur sy verhewenheid, die vreugde van die hele aarde is die berg Sion, aan die noordekant, die stad van die groot Koning” (Ps. 48:3). Almal sal hulle in Jerusalem en Sion verbly:
          “Baie volke sal heengaan en sÍ: Kom laat ons optrek na die berg van die Here, na die huis van die God van Jakob, dat Hy ons sy weŽ kan leer en ons in sy paaie kan wandel. Want uit Sion sal die wet uitgaan en die woord van die Here uit Jerusalem. En Hy sal oordeel tussen die nasies en regspreek oor baie volke; en hulle sal van hul swaarde pikke smee en van hul spiese snoeimesse; nie meer sal nasie teen nasie die swaard ophef nie, en hulle sal nie meer leer om oorlog te voer nie” (Jes. 2:3-4).
          “In diť tyd sal hulle Jerusalem noem die troon van die Here; en al die nasies sal daarheen saamkom vanweŽ die Naam van die Here in Jerusalem; en hulle sal nie meer wandel na die verharding van hul bose hart nie” (Jer. 3:17). Die duiwel sal in ’n put gebind wees sodat hy nasies nie sal kan verlei nie.
          Israel sal in hierdie tyd hoog in aansien wees: “So sal dan baie volke en magtige nasies kom om die Here van die leŽrskare in Jerusalem te soek en die aangesig van die Here om genade te smeek. So sÍ die Here van die leŽrskare: In diť dae sal tien man uit al die tale van die nasies die slip van ᾿n Joodse man gryp en dit vashou en sÍ: Ons wil met julle saamgaan, want ons het gehoor dat God met julle is” (Sag. 8:22-23).

          9. Die stad waarop Satan se laaste rebellie gerig sal wees



          NŠ die Messiasryk gaan daar nog een groot, finale aanslag teen Jerusalem wees wanneer die duiwel uit sy gevangenis losgelaat word. Sy hernude geestelike teenwoordigheid op aarde sal duidelik aan die lig bring wie in daardie stadium waarlik gered is en wie nie. Klaarblyklik gaan daar aan die einde van die vrederyk ten spyte van die positiewe omstandighede op aarde ’n baie groot aantal vormgodsdienstiges wees wat net ’n gedaante van godsaligheid het. Hulle sal maklik deur die duiwel mislei kan word om aan sy laaste groot rebellie deel te neem:
          “En wanneer die duisend jaar voleindig is, sal die Satan uit sy gevangenis ontbind word; en hy sal uitgaan om die nasies te verlei wat in die vier hoeke van die aarde is, die Gog en die Magog, om hulle te versamel vir die oorlog; en hulle getal is soos die sand van die see. En hulle het opgekom oor die breedte van die aarde en die laer van die heiliges en die geliefde stad omsingel, en vuur het van God uit die hemel neergedaal en hulle verslind. En die duiwel wat hulle verlei het, is in die poel van vuur en swawel gewerp waar die dier en die valse profeet is; en hulle sal dag en nag gepynig word tot in alle ewigheid” (Op. 20:7-10).
          Dit sal die einde van Satanies-geÔnspireerde aanslae teen Jerusalem en die koninkryk van God wees. Die duiwel en al sy meelopers sal daarna in die poel van vuur wees.

          10. Die stad wat die enigste poort na die nuwe Jerusalem is



          Die heilswerk wat die Here Jesus in aardse Jerusalem gedoen het, is die enigste poort na die hemelse Jerusalem, daardie wonderstad wat die Here Jesus as ’n ewige tuiste vir ons gaan berei het (Joh. 14:2-3). Wanneer die nuwe aarde geskape is, sal die nuwe Jerusalem uit die hemel neerdaal en op die aarde rus. Johannes sÍ:
          “En ek, Johannes, het die heilige stad, die nuwe Jerusalem, sien neerdaal van God uit die hemel, toeberei soos ’n bruid wat vir haar man versier is. En ek het ’n groot stem uit die hemel hoor sÍ: Kyk, die tabernakel van God is by die mense, en Hy sal by hulle woon, en hulle sal sy volk wees; en God self sal by hulle wees as hulle God. En God sal al die trane van hulle oŽ afvee, en daar sal geen dood meer wees nie; ook droefheid en geween en moeite sal daar nie meer wees nie, want die eerste dinge het verbygegaan. En Hy wat op die troon sit, het gesÍ: Kyk, Ek maak alles nuut” (Op. 21:2-5).
          Voordat die heerlikheid van die ewigheid in die nuwe Jerusalem aanbreek, is daar op hierdie donker wÍreld egter nog ’n stryd om te stry en oorwinning te verkry. Daar is belangrike aspekte van aardse Jerusalem se wÍreldhervormende rol wat nog nie vervul is nie.

          Hoedanig is jy en ek ingeskakel by die stryd ter ondersteuning van Jerusalem? Besef ons die intensiteit van die Satanies-gedrewe stryd teen Jerusalem en neem ons genoegsaam standpunt hierteen in? Besef ons regtig die groot en wonderlike openbarings van God wat nog in hierdie stad gaan plaasvind? Ons het nog soveel te meer as die Joodse ballinge in Babel rede om aan Jerusalem te dink, en te bid dat God se vrede opnuut sal neerdaal op hierdie stad wat so dikwels in die verlede as gevolg van sy inwoners se ongeloof en onkunde beleŽr, verwoes, vertrap en verlate was. Die Israelse ballinge het die volgende Sionslied gesing:

          “As ek jou vergeet, o Jerusalem, laat my regterhand dan homself vergeet! Laat my tong kleef aan my verhemelte as ek aan jou nie dink nie, as ek Jerusalem nie verhef bo my hoogste vreugde nie” (Ps. 137:5-6).
          Op die oomblik is Jerusalem ’n stad waarin grootskaalse ongeloof in die ware Messias heers, en ook ’n stad wat weens die vyande van Israel deur fisiese, godsdienstige en politieke verdeling bedreig word. Vir ons wat so nou by Jerusalem se verlede, hede en toekoms betrokke is, is dit ’n onaanvaarbare situasie en rede vir ernstige voorbidding totdat die Here Jerusalem bevestig en maak tot ’n lof op aarde.
          http://www.bibleguide.co.za/index.ph...lem&Itemid=238

          Comment


          • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

            Originally posted by Die Filadelfieer View Post
            Jy sal bepaalde deelnemrs hier na bloedrukpille dryf met sulke menings HH !

            Ek moet sÍ, reg of verkeerd, en of mens nou saamstem met hierdie stelling of nie, bly dit 'n baie interesante opmerking hierdie wat mens nogals laat nadink .....
            Bogenoemd is Fila se antwoord op hierdie plasing van Hammerkop volgende.

            In my persoonlike opinie, is dit egter satan wat al hierdie dinge so mooi laat plaasvind in Israel, dat dit lyk of dit die beloftes van God aan Israel is, wat op hulle uitgestort word...En satan weet dat 1000de daarvoor sal val, en hulle fokus van God laat afdwaal na n fisiese nasie toe...
            Dit is nie net Godslasterlik nie, maar hiermee se julle dat die satan in beheer is van God se land Israel en Sy volk die Jode.....en nie God nie! As ek hierdie studiestuk lees lyk dit vir my of my God, Jesus Christus in beheer is!

            Israel Is God’s Land And Jews Are God’s People.

            The Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: “To your descendants I have given this land; from the riverof Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates’” (Genesis 15:18).“I will make of you (Abraham) a great nation and I will bless you and make your name famous, and you willbe a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and curse him who curses you. In you, will all the families ofthe earth be blessed” (Genesis 12:2 & 3). ‘God said to Jacob, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel’” (Genesis 32:28). ‘Again God said to Jacob, “You shall not be called Jacob any longer, but Israel shall be your name.” So the Lord God called him Israel’ (Genesis 35:10).When the Israelites accepted the Covenant of Moses, that marked their birth as a nation. They became a separate people in the eyes of the Lord, and they knew they were special in God’s sight. ‘For what shall it be known that Your people have found favour in Your sight? Is it not in Your going with us so that we are distinguished from all other people upon the face of the earth?’ (Exodus 33:16). The Lord said, “You are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a special people to Himself out of all the nations on the earth. The Lord did not set His love upon you and choose you because you were more in number than any other nation, for you were the fewest in number, but because the Lord loves you and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your forefathers” (Deuteronomy 7:6 to 8).When the Lord God of Israel makes a statement, it always comes true because He has spoken it. God’s covenant with Abraham guarantees that the boundaries stated in Genesis will one day hold true. God promised to Abraham and his descendants, as a perpetual inheritance, the land between the Euphrates andthe Nile Rivers, and God cares about all of that land because it belongs to Him. ‘A land for which the Lord your God cares. The eyes of the Lord your God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year to the end of the year’ (Deuteronomy 11:12). The Lord promised Abraham a huge swathe of land for his descendantsand one day, as the Lord promised, Israel will include all of this land. The land of Israel is deeply embedded in the hearts of the Jewish people. ‘For your servants take pleasure inthe stones and favour her dust’ (Psalm 102:14). Israel is their land, given to them by God and every non-Jewish person needs to realise that. ”Yes, I (the Lord) will rejoice over them (the Jews) to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with My whole heart and with My whole soul” (Jeremiah 32:41). We can see that the Lord has indeed ‘planted’ His people back into the Holy Land and they will stay there. God is calling Jews from all over the world to return to their land. Why is Israel the ‘Holy’ land? Because the Lordhas chosen to establish His holy name there. ‘I will gather them and will bring them to the place where I havechosen as a dwelling for My Name’ (Nehemiah 1:9). ‘Your people (the Jews) shall all be righteous; they shall possess the land forever, the branch of My (God’s) planting, the work of My hands, that I might be glorified.The least of them shall become a tribe and the small one a strong nation. I, the Lord, will hasten it in its appointed time’ (Isaiah 60:21 & 22). The Holy Land of Israel is not Palestine and the land has never ever belonged to Arabs, Moslems or the descendents of Ishmael, so we should never call the land Palestine. In the Bible it is called the land of Israel and that has never changed. Palestine means the land of the Philistines and it was named that by the Romans. Israel and Judea had been nations for over 1,000 years but were defeated by the Roman Empire.The Romans exiled or murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews, then in order to obliterate any connection of the Jewish people to their land, renamed it Palestine after the Jews’ Biblical enemy, the Philistines. For the next 2,000 years no other national group developed in that land and no ruler ever chose Jerusalem as its capital. Instead, different peoples came, colonised, ruled then disappeared. Jews remained a constantpresence throughout these changes, and always kept Jerusalem as their capital because Jews were always the majority. The number of Jews slowly grew as exiled Jews returned in periodic waves of immigration; their numbers growing and at times, falling. The region was an impoverished, barren and thinly populated area.There was plenty of room for returning Jews to settle in Israel, without displacing the few Arabs who lived there. It is important for people to know the facts about Israel, given the misinformation sent to us via the media who are almost always biased in favour of Israel’s enemies. Some of the people who promote the most negative attitude towards Israel are journalists with their own agenda. They are wickedly biased against the Jews. Shame on the media and shame on their organisations for allowing such biased reporting. Now wewill read the truth about God’s promises to Abraham regarding Israel, and then we will look at the disputedterritories.Abraham was the father and founder of the Jewish people and they are still God’s chosen people and always will be. God planned for salvation to come to the Gentiles via the Jews (John 4:22). Gentiles are not terrible people; they are simply non-Jews. ‘In you (Abraham and his descendants) will all the families of the earth be blessed’ (Genesis 12:3) … all families – both Jews and Gentiles. Jesus was a Jewish Man descended directly from Abraham, and the promise made to Abraham by God in that scripture was fulfilled 2,000 yearslater when Paul took the Gospel message of salvation through the blood of Jesus to the Gentiles. Paul and
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            Barnabas spoke out boldly saying, “It was necessary that God’s message should be spoken to you (theJews) first … and now we turn to the Gentiles” (Acts 13:46).Israel was promised to Abraham and his descendants (the Jews) so it is their land and will always be their land. It was originally known as Canaan (Genesis 11:31), then as the land of the Hebrews (Genesis 40:15).What is now known as the West Bank, was once divided peacefully between the original tribes of Issachar,Zebulun, Naphtali, Gad and Manasseh and was later called Judea and Samaria, which were cities within ancient Israel. Gaza was known as Gaza way back in Genesis 10:19 and was owned by Noah’s son Ham,Ham’s son Canaan and his descendants. The Canaanites became a wicked people and through thejudgement of God, were ejected from the land of Canaan by the Israelites (Deuteronomy 9:4 & 5). The land allotted to Judah was from the Mediterranean Sea to the Dead Sea (Joshua 15:1 to 12). Gaza became partof the territory owned by the tribe of Judah, so it was part of the land of Israel from the beginning. The Lord changed Jacob’s name to Israel and his twelve sons, who fathered the twelve tribes and all of their descendants, were known as the children of Israel. Jewish habitation in the land of Israel has been continuous ever since the twelve tribes moved there. Evenafter the Romans exiled or murdered much of the Jewish population, many remained in Israel and flourishedthroughout the region. While in the Diaspora, Jews always promised to rejoin those who had never left Israel. Judaism was the majority religion in Jerusalem. Throughout history, much has been written about the exiled Jews, but little was known about the Jewish families who have lived continuously in Israel for thousands ofyears. Only 160 years before the birth of Jesus, the Jews warred against the might of the Greek/Syrian Empire (the War of the Maccabees) and won, securing Israel once again as the land belonging to the Jews.That happened before the Roman Empire invaded Israel. No Arab Palestinian nation had ever existed in Israel. After Rome fell, Israel became a minor district ruled by a succession of empires. Arabs living in Israel were Syrians left over from the Greek/Syrian occupation prior to 160 BC. These Arabs did not have a distinct Palestinian identity prior to the 1967 war, so until then, they never demanded their own land. Because theJewish settlements were built on uninhabited land, they did not displace Arab families. Over a million Arabs currently and contentedly live in Jewish Israel, and most do not want a separate ‘Palestinian State’. After the Balfour Declaration in 1917, Article 80 states that Israel’s only impediment to settlement buildingwas self-imposed. The territories of the West Bank and Gaza were never allocated to a sovereign nation nor were they assigned any fixed boundaries. That means both Jews and Palestinian Arabs legally have equalclaim over all of that land and the Israeli’s can put their security fence wherever they want to. Israel’sboundary once included all of what is now Jordan, which was the original ‘Palestinian State’. So we can seethat Israeli control of the disputed territories is not an ‘illegal occupation’ and Israeli settlements do not violateany international laws. The media reporters who make such claims are lying, simply for reasons of anti-Israel/anti-Semitic political propaganda. Israel has given vast swathes of land to the Palestinians just tomake peace and that highlights Israel’s willingness to make significant compromises for the sake of peace in their region. Every time Israel tries to make peace with the Palestinians, it is the Palestinians who reject it. Palestinians are actually a ‘made up’ race. Today’s ‘Palestinians’ are actually Arabs, and are close relatives of those living in neighbouring countries, and from where most of them or their ancestors came from. Untilrecently, Arabs did not consider the land of Israel theirs and they refused to call themselves Palestinians. During the British Peel Commission in 1937, an Arab leader said there was no such place as Palestine. In the Anglo-American Committee during an inquiry in 1946, another Arab leader said there was no such thing as Palestine in all of history. To the UN Security Council in 1956, yet another Arab leader Ahmed Shukairy, said Palestine was nothing but southern Syria. Then eight years later, the very same man, Ahmed Shukairy became the founding chairman of the PLO and said he would drive the Jews into the sea. The land of Canaan was never promised to the Arabs nor did they live there in any great numbers until modern times and they make a number of conflicting claims. The Arabs could not have descended from the original Palestinians – the Philistines who were giants in stature; nor could they have descended from Abraham’s eldest son, Ishmael. They make these claims to try to ‘prove’ they are the legitimate heirs of the land God gave to Abraham. Arabs are a mixed race of several people from that region. They are made up of the ancient descendants of Noah’s three sons. As we have already read, the people in the area were Ham’s descendants. As they broke away into various family groups, they called themselves Kenites, Kenizites,Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizites, Rephaims, Amorites, Canaanites, Girga****es, Jebusites or Egyptians butnever Palestinians. There is no direct genealogy tracing today’s Arabs back to Ishmael, and they could notbe descended from the land’s original inhabitants. God promised the land to Abraham before Ishmael was born. Since it already had many Canaanite inhabitants, how could Arab descendants of Ishmael be at the same time, descendants of the Canaanites? That is quite impossible! Further to that, Abraham was not from Canaan, he was from Ur of the Chaldees and had immigrated to Canaan. Ishmael’s mother Hagar was an Egyptian. Neither Abraham nor Hagar were among the original inhabitants of Canaan and are not even remotely related to the Canaanite people. As we know, Hagar and Ishmael were banished from the Promised Land to live permanently in the Wilderness of Paran (Genesis 21:21), which is near Beersheba(Genesis 21:14). The Lord told Abraham to send Ishmael away so he would not be an heir with Isaac and therefore could have no claim on the land (Genesis 21:10 & 12; Galatians 4:30). Ishmael’s descendants never lived in Canaan but settled in the Arabian Peninsula. They did not live in Israel when it was called Palestine so they cannot with any honesty claim to be the ‘original inhabitants’. Today’s so-called
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            ‘Palestinians’ are promoting a lie but it is the lie, encouraged by the secular media that the world loves and gladly uses as a ‘cudgel’ against Israel. It wasn’t until about the seventh century AD, when the rather despicable false religion based on the demonic ‘dreams’ of a mentally sick man called Muhammad took hold in Mecca and Medina. If ‘Palestine’ is so important to the Moslems, why is it not once mentioned in the Quran? The Bible talks about the peoples ofthe area being afraid of the Israelites and they included the ‘inhabitants of Philistia’ and the ‘inhabitants of Canaan’ who melted away (Exodus 15:14 to 16). The Prophets Isaiah and Joel also mention Philistia but never refer to Philistia as the land of Canaan or Israel (Isaiah 14:29 & 31 and Joel 3:4). Philistia was where the Philistines lived and it was where Gaza was then and is today. This is true history not mentioned in the Quran. Even the Philistines were not the original inhabitants of the land; they were an Aegean race. Arabs living in Israel today cannot claim ethnic, linguistic or an historical relationship to the Philistines and cannot justify calling themselves ‘Palestinians’. Those who claim to be Palestinians are in fact Arabs by birth, language, Islamic religion and culture and have emigrated from surrounding Arab countries. Most are attracted by Israel’s prosperity, created by Jews returning to their Promised Land. Even though a great deal of the Quran is plagiarised from the Bible, there is no mention of Jerusalem even once. King David established Jerusalem as the capital of Israel more than 3,000 years ago. Islam has been around for about 1,200 years, so it was the Jewish capital more then a thousand years before the religion of Islam was invented. Even when Moslems controlled the Middle East, Jerusalem was not given anyimportance and was largely ignored. The population of Jerusalem was mostly Jews, some were Christiansbut only a very few were Arabs. As late as 1964, there was no reference to Jerusalem in the Palestinian National Covenant. Suddenly and inexplicably, the Moslems began to insist that Jerusalem belonged to them as much as the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and had always belonged to them. Moslem writers only very recently began to pretend that Jerusalem was as holy as Mecca or Medina, and even call Jerusalem ‘ourmost sacred place’. The Palestinians demand the ‘return’ of Jerusalem as their capital, when it has never in history been their capital. Even when the mosque was built in Jerusalem, the area was not given any specialsignificance in Islam. Yasser Arafat’s grandfather, Amin Mohammed al-Husseini was a Jew-killing partner of Hitler, was a terrorist in his own right and he was also Arafat’s mentor and guide. The PLO was formed in1964, not in Israel but in Cairo by Egypt’s President, Nasser. The Moslems have invented a ‘history’ to suitthemselves.False religions actually worship the devil and he loves that. Buddhists, Hindus, Islamists and other religionsthat bow down are not worshipping God the Father – they are worshipping the devil and they will all end up together in the lake of fire unless they turn to God for forgiveness, repent and are saved by the blood of Jesus. The Islamist word Allah does not mean God at all … far from it. That is a lie perpetuated by the devil. Allah was one of Muhammad’s 360 gods, and to fall in line with the ‘trend’ of monotheism back in the year 622, Muhammad simply chose the ‘chief god’ of their 360 gods and made it the main object of worship. It had been the official god of Muhammad’s tribe for centuries before he was born. His so-called ‘revelations’ were so strange and terrifying to him, he knew they could only come from the devil; he knew he was possessed by the devil and he acted like he was. Muhammad attempted suicide several times; he was a false prophet; he married a little girl of just eight years old – and that makes him a paedophile. Most Islamists are ignorant of these facts about their own religion and continue to be hopelessly deceived and continue to worship their god, the devil. Jesus our Messiah is their only hope. However, the devil does not want these false religions to stop worshipping him, so there is an immense struggle in the spiritual realm to keep these people bound in their sin – hence the persecution of Jews and Christians. Moslems are sometimes murdered if they turn away from worshipping the devil and desire to worship God. Jerusalem is the capital of God’s chosen land. It is loved by God and was lamented over by Jesus. “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you refused! You would not! Behold, your house is forsaken. For I declare to you, you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord” (Matthew 23:37 to 39). Jesus said He would not come back until the Jewish people could say of Him ‘Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord’. In other words – to acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah. The Jewish people have to be made ready to welcome Him back. God is at present, preparing Israel for that great event. The way the Lord gave Israel back to the Jews, and the gathering of the exiled Jewish people back to their own land is nothing short of a miracle. Our Jewish Messiah will one day return to the Jewish capital, Jerusalem. Jerusalem does not and never ever did belong to the Arabs. Moslems do not want the Messiah to come because He would prove their religion to be false, and so they are resisting the return of Jews to Israel and they are resisting there turn of Jesus. Anybody who resists the regathering of the Lord’s people, resists the return of the Messiah. This is God the Father speaking, “For behold, the days are coming when I will release from exile My people Israel and Judah, and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they will possess it … In the latter days you shall understand this” (Jeremiah 30:3 & 24). That verse makes it clear that this prophecy is about the latter days, which is now. All of Jeremiah chapters 30 & 31 tell us all about the return of the Jews to Israel, which precedes the return of the Lord Jesus.
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            The Jews have been exiled into different nations around the world for thousands of years, yet by a miracle, they have remained Jews. There are Jews still living in Iran and Iraq who are the descendants of the Jews that lived in Persia during the time of King Xerxes (Esther 2:6) after being forced there during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 1:1 & 2). They still live there and know their ancestry. If we took an ancient tribeand exiled them to far away lands for only three generations, their bloodline, culture, religion and beliefs would assimilate into the countries where they lived, but the Lord has shepherded His chosen people, the Jews, and kept them as they are. They have always remained Jews in spite of terrible persecutions, vast distances and thousands of years. They are still a distinct people with their own customs, language, cultureand music. That in itself is an amazing miracle and only the mighty hand of God could have achieved that. ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O you nations … He Who scattered Israel will gather him and will guard him as a shepherd guards his flock’ (Jeremiah 31:10). Another amazing miracle is their return to the land promised to Abraham. Modern Israel is like a melting pot, blending the new arrivals into one people with one culture, one language and their own unique holidays, feasts and celebrations. That verse is a message from God to nations all over the earth, that He is gathering His people back to Israel. This prophetical scripture is being fulfilled in our time. Despite all the pressure, opposition, wars and struggles, Israel will continue to be populated by Jews in their own land. God has decreed it, spoken it, and is performing it, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop God’s plan for His people. ‘Jerusalem shall not be plucked up or overthrown anymore, forever’ (Jeremiah 31:40). “‘I will bring back the exiles of My people Israel, and they shall build the ruined cities and inhabit them, and they shall plant vineyards and drink the wine from them. They shall also make gardens and eat of the fruit of them. I will plant them on their land and they shall no more be plucked up out of their land which I have given them.” says the Lord your God’ (Amos 9:14 & 15). This prophecy from Amos is being fulfilled right now. The Jews have made their deserts and wastelands profitable farmlands that produce food for Israel in abundance, so they are able to export some of it. When God set Israel apart, He set them apart as a nation, not as individuals. When God forgave them and reconciled with them, He reconciled with them as a nation. God has reconciled with them in the exact same land as He once disowned them, then once in their own land, they will appoint themselves a head or in modern language, a Prime Minister, which they have done. ‘The number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea which cannot be measured or numbered; and instead of it being said to them, “You are not My people” it shall be said to them “You are sons of the Living God.” Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together and appoint themselves one head, for they shall go up out of the land, and great shall be the day for the reborn Israel’ (Hosea 1:10 & 11). ‘Just as the Lord says in Hosea,“Those who were not My people I will call My people, and her who was not beloved I will call My beloved.And it shall be in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people’ they shall be called Sons of the living God’” (Romans 9:25 & 26). The regathering of Israel is one of the main themes of Biblical prophecy. The above scriptures are just a few but there are many more following the same theme. There is no place named Palestine: it is Israel, it has been Israel since the Israelites moved there and it will always be Israel, occupied by Jewish people. Israel was erroneously and temporarily called Palestine by pagans, who did not believe in God the Father or our Saviour Jesus. If there ever is a Palestinian state, it will wither before it grows. ‘Let them all be put to shame and turned backward who hate Zion. Let them be as the grass upon the housetops, which withers before it grows up’ (Psalm 129:5 & 6).Through the sacrifice of Jesus Who was Jewish, we can have eternal life. There are hundreds of scriptures mentioning our Messiah, in various ways, way back in the book of Genesis, right through to Malachi. Through the writings of God-fearing, righteous Jews, we know we Gentiles can be adopted into the eternal Kingdom of God, and therefore receive the same inheritance originally given to the Jewish people; and God blesses us if we receive the word given to us. ‘Blessed are your eyes because they do see and your ears because they do hear’ (Matthew 13:16).

            Jews are, and will always be God’s chosen people, just as Israel was and always will be, God’s chosen land. We non-Jewish people, have a lot to thank the Jews for. It can’t be stated strongly enough, how much we need to appreciate Jewish people. God’s chosen people who live in His chosen land brought us our salvation… our eternal life. Thank God for the Jews! Praise God for them! They brought us the whole Bible.

            The Lord spoke to Moses face to face like a man speaks to his friend, and the Lord told Moses to write everything down (Exodus 24:4; 33:11; Numbers 33:2). From that humble beginning in the desert, we have the wonderful salvation message, written by Jews as they were inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16). Other Jewish men, the prophets and later the apostles, wrote more of God’s instructions down, which has been recorded for us to learn the way of salvation so we can obey the Lord and be saved. Amen and God bless you. www.bibleabookoftruth.com

            Comment


            • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

              Johnny, ek sal graag wil weet hoeveel mense lees jou plasings soos hier bo. Ek sal reguit met jou wees, ek het dit nie gelees nie (vir verskeie redes)

              Jy se dat ek Godslasterlik optree, het jy geweet dat as jy enige iets bo God plaas, en belangriker as God maak, tree jy ook Godslasterlik op? Deur God se evangelie te verdraai en mense ast ware weg te lei van Jesus af, is volgens my baie erger in elkgeval...
              See how much the Father has loved us! His love is so great that we are called God's children---and so, in fact, we are! - 1John 3:1
              Gods true word!
              Believing it . Defending it . Proclaiming it .

              Comment


              • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                Originally posted by Die Filadelfieer View Post
                Jy sal bepaalde deelnemrs hier na bloedrukpille dryf met sulke menings HH !

                Ek moet sÍ, reg of verkeerd, en of mens nou saamstem met hierdie stelling of nie, bly dit 'n baie interesante opmerking hierdie wat mens nogals laat nadink .....

                Hi Fila, Ja ek het besef dit sal gebeur, maar weet jy, ek het net gese, wat baie ander wel gedink het!!
                See how much the Father has loved us! His love is so great that we are called God's children---and so, in fact, we are! - 1John 3:1
                Gods true word!
                Believing it . Defending it . Proclaiming it .

                Comment


                • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                  Originally posted by HammerHead View Post
                  Johnny, ek sal graag wil weet hoeveel mense lees jou plasings soos hier bo. Ek sal reguit met jou wees, ek het dit nie gelees nie (vir verskeie redes)

                  Jy se dat ek Godslasterlik optree, het jy geweet dat as jy enige iets bo God plaas, en belangriker as God maak, tree jy ook Godslasterlik op? Deur God se evangelie te verdraai en mense ast ware weg te lei van Jesus af, is volgens my baie erger in elkgeval...
                  Yip....ek het, soos byvoorbeeld Allen G White.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                    Johnny, jy het al die antwoorde voor jou, en jy word met vrae bestook wat jy nie kan antwoord nie, en jyt sekerlik vrae wat jyself nie kan antwoord nie, maar op die stadium is jy soos n perd met oogklappe aan, jou respons op enige plasing oor Israel is altyd dieselfde, en volgens my mening, dra geen water nie..

                    Dink jy nie dis tyd dat jy weer terug gaan na Jesus 101 toe, en van voor af die Heilige Gees smeek om jou in die waarheid te lei nie? Ek meen, wat kan so sleg wees daarmee?

                    As Israel die ware volk van God is, sal die Heilige Gees jou mos weer na daardie waarheid toe lei...

                    Hoekom los jy nie vir eers die menslike geskrifte, en studeer net die Bybel nie?

                    Ek belowe jou, niks sleg kan daarvan kom nie...
                    See how much the Father has loved us! His love is so great that we are called God's children---and so, in fact, we are! - 1John 3:1
                    Gods true word!
                    Believing it . Defending it . Proclaiming it .

                    Comment


                    • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                      Originally posted by Johnny View Post
                      Yip....ek het, soos byvoorbeeld Allen G White.
                      Johnny, jy gryp na grashalms...Wys my een keer waar ek EGW aangehaal het op die forum... ek kan jou wel menigte male wys waar jy jou pastoor aanhaal...

                      BTW...Dit is EGW, nie AGW nie...
                      See how much the Father has loved us! His love is so great that we are called God's children---and so, in fact, we are! - 1John 3:1
                      Gods true word!
                      Believing it . Defending it . Proclaiming it .

                      Comment


                      • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                        BTW...Dit is EGW, nie AGW nie...
                        Nee man......dit is nie een van die bogenoemde nie. Dit is AGS.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                          Originally posted by Johnny View Post
                          Kom ek probeer....
                          GeseŽnd is die vredemakers, want hulle sal kinders van God genoem word.

                          ...en nie sit in die kring van die spotters nie

                          Comment


                          • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                            Originally posted by Johnny View Post
                            Nee man......dit is nie een van die bogenoemde nie. Dit is AGS.
                            jou kommentaar laat my dink jy sit met n mond vol tande...

                            Komaan Johnny, wanneer gaan jy ophou Israel-Israel speel?

                            Besef jy nie hierdie is n lewe of dood saak nie?

                            See how much the Father has loved us! His love is so great that we are called God's children---and so, in fact, we are! - 1John 3:1
                            Gods true word!
                            Believing it . Defending it . Proclaiming it .

                            Comment


                            • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                              Originally posted by Johnny View Post
                              Kom ons begin sommer is Israel God se land, is die Jode sy volk en bestaan Israel fisies.
                              Johnny, een van die guru's van Israel, die President nogal, sÍ dat dit tyd is om van die verlede te vergeet terwyl hulle vir vrede onderhandel!!
                              Hulle kwoteer hom in 'n artikel:

                              "In order for peace talks to resume, he said, Israel must “forget the past” and move forward. Peres said, “We are not going to deal with Abraham, our father and brother. It’s over.”
                              http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-871911.html
                              Die OT-droom is verby, klink dit half vir my, Johnny. As die Jode dit self sÍ, wie is ons om te stry?
                              Daar gaan jou geloof, Johnny!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Waar staan ons met Israel?

                                Originally posted by Johnny View Post
                                Dit is nie net Godslasterlik nie, maar hiermee se julle dat die satan in beheer is van God se land Israel en Sy volk die Jode.....en nie God nie! As ek hierdie studiestuk lees lyk dit vir my of my God, Jesus Christus in beheer is!
                                Wel Johnny, hoe reg is prof Johan Malan as hy nog hierin glo:
                                Originally posted by Johnny View Post
                                Ons Plig ten Opsigte van Jerusalem
                                Prof Johan Malan

                                6. Die stad van die Antichris se sewe jaar-lange regering

                                Daar wag in die nabye toekoms ’n baie donker tydperk van sewe jaar vir Jerusalem en die hele wÍreld. Volgens Johannes 5:43 gaan Israel die Antichris as Messias aanvaar, en volgens DaniŽl 9:27 gaan al die nasies ook dieselfde fout maak. Dit gaan daartoe lei dat die Antichris gedurende die sewe jaar van die verdrukking vir Jerusalem een van die hoofkwartiere van sy goddelose wÍreldregering gaan maak.
                                Met sy toestemming sal die tempel hier herbou word, maar hy gaan self die tempel ontheilig deur homself daarin tot God te verklaar. Paulus verwys na die Antichris as “die teŽstander wat hom verhef bo al wat God genoem word, ... sodat hy in die tempel van God as God sal sit en voorgee dat hy God is” (2 Thess. 2:4). Eers dan sal die Jode besef dat hulle die verkeerde persoon as Messias aanvaar het, en hulle verbond met hom verbreek. Die Antichris sal daarop ’n Joodse volksmoord gelas en hulle sal so vinnig as moontlik uit Jerusalem moet vlug na ’n skuilplek iewers in die berge. Die Here Jesus het hulle op die komende krisis voorberei:
                                “Wanneer julle dan die gruwel van die verwoesting, waarvan gespreek is deur die profeet DaniŽl, sien staan in die heiligdom … dan moet diť wat in Judťa is na die berge vlug; … Want dan sal daar groot verdrukking wees soos daar van die begin van die wÍreld af tot nou toe nie gewees het en ook nooit sal wees nie. En as daardie dae nie verkort was nie, sou geen vlees gered word nie; maar ter wille van die uitverkorenes sal daardie dae verkort word” (Matt. 24:15-16, 21-22).
                                ’n Messiaanse Jood, Arthur Katz, waarsku ook sy volksgenote oor die groot aanslag wat die valse messias en sy wÍreldmagte op hulle gaan maak. Hy sÍ: “Ek sou liewer verkeerd bewys wou word, maar ek glo dat die huidige geslag Jode vernietiging op ᾿n wÍreldwye skaal gaan ervaar wat veel erger as die Nazi-era sal wees. Ons gaan geweldig gehaat, vervolg en skielik verdryf word sodat ons sal moet vlug met net die klere aan ons lyf – sonder om te weet waarheen ons gaan. Die Here het gesÍ Hy sal met ons in die gerig tree, maar Hy sal ook herstel” (The Holocaust – Where was God?) Aan die einde van hierdie donker tonnel van die groot verdrukking sal die lig van die Messias se koms op die oorblyfsel van Israel skyn.

                                ...'n Doktrine wat uiters moeilik met die Bybel regverdig kan word soos hier gesien kan word?

                                En dit lyk asof hierdie oor-verheerliking van Israel en die Jode amper onlosmaaklik deel is van die Geheime Wegraping/7 jaar verdrukking doktrine. Is al die dinge (die doktrine) nie maar net 'n vervanging om die fokus op Jesus Christus (deur 'n oorverheerliking van die Jode en Israel), die RKK as antichris wat Sy mense sedert Sy opvaar mislei tot Sy wederkoms (deur 'n toekomstige antichris wat slegs 7 jaar regeer) en Sy Wederkoms waarin ELKE oog Hom sal sien (deur 'n Geheime Wegraping) weg te vat nie? Hierdie doktrine vervang al 3 hierdie dinge met alternatiewes.....
                                Miskien is dit tog tyd om weer opreg te besin!
                                Last edited by Ben Cronje; Dec 17 2012, 09:49 AM.

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