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  • Not for everybody

    What is your take on the idea that there are some people whom Christianity does not make any claim to be for?

    I can identify ten overlapping groups of people Christianity is aimed at, but I would suggest that there is no credible form of Christianity which is supposed to be for someone outside any of them.

    Can you describe a type of person to whom you would say 'Christianity is not for you'?

  • #2
    Re: Not for everybody

    Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
    What is your take on the idea that there are some people whom Christianity does not make any claim to be for?

    I can identify ten overlapping groups of people Christianity is aimed at, but I would suggest that there is no credible form of Christianity which is supposed to be for someone outside any of them.

    Can you describe a type of person to whom you would say 'Christianity is not for you'?
    There is no one Christianity is not for. Or rather no one that Christ did not die for. It is the Fathers will that none should perish but have eternal life with Him. You cant have that life without Christ.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Not for everybody

      If you disassemble Christianity according to how it pitches itself to potential converts, as well as how it reacts to critical questions from other Christians, it certainly does not look as if it is for everybody.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Not for everybody

        Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
        If you disassemble Christianity according to how it pitches itself to potential converts, as well as how it reacts to critical questions from other Christians, it certainly does not look as if it is for everybody.
        The main question is: is it for YOU? Are you prepared to stand before a Holy God and answer for your own sins?
        Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Not for everybody

          I would add that those who say that Christianity isn't for all may not be Christians. Be careful who you listen to friend. God desires that ALL come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2 / 4.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Not for everybody

            Christianity - the way that sometimes the church has poorly "peddled" it or lived it out - is not for anyone. There are indeed some poor Christian influences and some who believe they are Christian but are not.

            BUT, CHRIST is for all!! You cannot allow mistakes made by Christians to erase that fact. There are mountains of true and pure Christian churches and people out there who represent Christ in the Biblical manner. Don't focus on the factions and failures of some.

            It's all about Jesus Christ.
            sigpic
            ".....it's your nickel"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Not for everybody

              Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
              If you disassemble Christianity according to how it pitches itself to potential converts, as well as how it reacts to critical questions from other Christians, it certainly does not look as if it is for everybody.
              Good morning DavidYoung (at least its morning here)

              Can you give some examples of what you are saying? Sort of put together a few scenarios?

              While it is true there are some not so good examples of Christians and churches not all are so. The main thing though is not to follow individuals but follow Christ’ example.

              Paul had the same problem. He wrote there were people preaching the gospel with good intentions and some preaching with bad intentions. Though Paul would prefer the former he was happy either way because the gospel was being preached.

              When a person surrenders to Christ it is Christ they are supposed to follow not the person who preached.
              "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
              C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

              "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
              "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

              "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
              "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
              "Our Hope is unchanged"
              "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Not for everybody

                Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
                If you disassemble Christianity according to how it pitches itself to potential converts, as well as how it reacts to critical questions from other Christians, it certainly does not look as if it is for everybody.
                What is a group you have in mind?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Not for everybody

                  If someone belongs to a group who disagrees with one of the ten statements on my list, it would not surprise me in the least to learn that they are a Christian. It would come as no surprise to learn that they probably disagree with more than one of them.

                  However, although I have met Christians who would agree with all but perhaps one or two, I am not sure how a person who belongs to a group which agrees with all of them could say that they have a version of Christianity that has much relevance to anyone.

                  Here is the list:
                  1: Intercessory prayer does not work.
                  2: The phenomena referred to as 'signs and wonders' can be explained in perfectly rational, non-supernatural, ways.
                  3: There is no such thing as 'the pure message of the Bible alone'.
                  4: There is no evidence for life after death.
                  5: Evolution is true, is supported by evidence and currently has no scientific rival theory.
                  6: There is no example that can be given of a virtuous act which only a person with a religious faith, or Christian faith in particular, could perform.
                  7: Answering a different question from the one asked is not the same as answering the question that has been asked.
                  8: Being older than someone is not a factor in deciding whether a statement is true, and neither is the number of people who believe something.
                  9: The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'.
                  10: Putting a large number of arguments that don't work together in one place does not create an argument that does.

                  In other words, by looking at the arguments people put forward in their attempts to make converts, they assume that the potential convert will disagree with at least one of these.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Not for everybody

                    David, I don't know who you've been talking / debating with but here is the deal. No one can present an argument to win someone else to the faith. They either place their faith in the truth of scripture , or they don't. This truth is that men are sinners separated from a Holy God. The truth is that God in His great love for man sent a perfect sacrifice through His Son Jesus. This Jesus lived a sinless life so He could be our substitution for God's justice. Jesus broke the power of sin , death, and hell when He was resurrected.

                    You either believe it , or you don't. When you stand before God ( and you will ) , you will be alone. All of the arguments your trying to present about Christians being the problem in Christianity won't cut it. And just so you know, all of those people will stand before God and give an account for their own actions as well.

                    I would suggest in love, that you not look at people, but look to God. It sure makes things easier to see who He is when we do this.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Not for everybody

                      Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
                      If someone belongs to a group who disagrees with one of the ten statements on my list, it would not surprise me in the least to learn that they are a Christian. It would come as no surprise to learn that they probably disagree with more than one of them.

                      However, although I have met Christians who would agree with all but perhaps one or two, I am not sure how a person who belongs to a group which agrees with all of them could say that they have a version of Christianity that has much relevance to anyone.

                      Here is the list:
                      1: Intercessory prayer does not work.
                      2: The phenomena referred to as 'signs and wonders' can be explained in perfectly rational, non-supernatural, ways.
                      3: There is no such thing as 'the pure message of the Bible alone'.
                      4: There is no evidence for life after death.
                      5: Evolution is true, is supported by evidence and currently has no scientific rival theory.
                      6: There is no example that can be given of a virtuous act which only a person with a religious faith, or Christian faith in particular, could perform.
                      7: Answering a different question from the one asked is not the same as answering the question that has been asked.
                      8: Being older than someone is not a factor in deciding whether a statement is true, and neither is the number of people who believe something.
                      9: The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'.
                      10: Putting a large number of arguments that don't work together in one place does not create an argument that does.

                      In other words, by looking at the arguments people put forward in their attempts to make converts, they assume that the potential convert will disagree with at least one of these.
                      Regarding your point #7 (which you have just demonstrated a variant of): rejecting 'Christian' claims is not an example of a group that 'Christianity does not make any claim to be for'. The 'group' that rejects Christianity is still a group that Christianity makes claims for, even if that group - or those groups - reject the claims being made. Care to try again, this time by naming at least one of the ten mentioned groups (I hope these aren't the ten groups you had in mind, as they are not, in fact, groups)?

                      By the way, items #5 - #10 have nothing to do with Christianity necessarily, so at best you're arguing that people who reject the supernatural reject Christianity, which is so obvious that it's hardly worth a thread.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Not for everybody

                        Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
                        Can you describe a type of person to whom you would say 'Christianity is not for you'?
                        No. He saves whoever believes.

                        John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
                        "Some people's idea of free speech is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back that is an outrage."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Not for everybody

                          Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
                          Can you describe a type of person to whom you would say 'Christianity is not for you'?
                          There are only 2 groups of people, the one who is willing to believe and the second that is not willing, no matter what. The question regarding the latter group is if they realize that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Not for everybody

                            Originally posted by DavidYoung View Post
                            What is your take on the idea that there are some people whom Christianity does not make any claim to be for?

                            Can you describe a type of person to whom you would say 'Christianity is not for you'?
                            Christianity makes the claim to all men’s souls. Since it’s the Absolute Truth, it covers all men, and has since Adam, until the end of the age.
                            Last edited by bluesky22; Jan 24th 2018, 02:02 PM.
                            “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

                            מקום כניעה סך הכל

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Not for everybody

                              Originally posted by jayne View Post
                              Christianity - the way that sometimes the church has poorly "peddled" it or lived it out - is not for anyone. There are indeed some poor Christian influences and some who believe they are Christian but are not.

                              BUT, CHRIST is for all!! You cannot allow mistakes made by Christians to erase that fact. There are mountains of true and pure Christian churches and people out there who represent Christ in the Biblical manner. Don't focus on the factions and failures of some.

                              It's all about Jesus Christ.
                              Amen ..... ............
                              Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.Matt 5:6

                              I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. John 13:15

                              Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
                              And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
                              Matt 25:46

                              For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith,
                              and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
                              1 Tim 6:10

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