Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Gabriel-Angel of redemption.................ANGEL OF THE LORD.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,345

    Gabriel-Angel of redemption.................ANGEL OF THE LORD.

    Gabriel, or at least his name, is only mentioned 4 times. He is the Angel that stands in Gods very presense, and his mission is all about redemption.

    DAN 8
    When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it; and behold, standing before me was one who looked like a man.
    16 And I heard the voice of a man between the banks of Ulai, and he called out and said, "Gabriel, give this man an understanding of the vision."
    17 So he came near to where I was standing, and when he came I was frightened and fell on my face; but he said to me, "Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end."
    18 Now while he was talking with me, I sank into a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me and made me stand upright.
    19 He said, "Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of the end.

    DAN 9
    Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,
    21 while I was still speaking in prayer, then the manGabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, - (chap-8 ) ,came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering.
    22 He gave me instruction and talked with me and said, "O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding.
    23 "At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision
    24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
    25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
    LK1

    Zacharias said to the angel, "How will I know this for certain? For I am an old man and my wife is advanced in years."
    19 The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.
    20 "And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their proper time."
    ( One should read Zacharias prophecy....LK 1 :67- )
    LK 1

    Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth,
    27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
    28 And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
    29 But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was.
    30 The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.
    31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
    32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
    33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
    34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
    35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
    36 "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
    37 "For nothing will be impossible with God."
    38 And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.



    MATT 1
    Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
    19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
    20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
    21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
    22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
    23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
    24 And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
    25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

    Gabriel, can you think of any other Angel that has so much ministry to our redemption.
    He was there to tell Daniel that redemption was on its way, in 70 weeks time .
    When it was time for Messiah to be born, he is there again ensuring that all things came to pass.
    He spoke with Mary, He was the Angel that Joseph dealt with and kept Messiah safe.
    Zacharias had his lips sealed, only to open them again in joy that the 70 week promise came true.;


    And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
    68 "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,
    For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,
    69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
    In the house of David His servant—
    70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old—
    71 Salvation FROM OUR ENEMIES,
    And FROM THE HAND OF ALL WHO HATE US;
    72 To show mercy toward our fathers,
    And to remember His holy covenant,
    73 The oath which He swore to Abraham our father,
    74 To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies,
    Might serve Him without fear,
    75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all our days.
    76 "And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High;
    For you will go on BEFORE THE LORD TO PREPARE HIS WAYS;
    77 To give to His people the knowledge of salvation
    By[44][Or Consisting in ] the forgiveness of their sins,
    78 Because of the tender mercy of our God,
    With which the Sunrise from on high will visit us,
    79 TO SHINE UPON THOSE WHO SIT IN DARKNESS AND THE SHADOW OF DEATH,
    To guide our feet into the way of peace."

    "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place
    Angels dont get many prayers, but i thank God for the Angel Gabriel tonight.

  2. #2
    Wait, your title of the thread says Gabriel is "Angel of the LORD"... are you trying to say he is the Angel of the LORD that we see in the OT?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,345
    Well Mark it says he is an Angel of the lord.
    Is the Angel of the Lord that you refer to in the OT ever named?.
    In matthews account this Angel is not refered to as Gabriel, but an Angel of the Lord.
    He stands in God presense, much like i think that the Angel of the Lord would.

    Tell me what you think is wrong with Gabriel being a Angel of the Lord.

  4. #4
    Tell me what you think is wrong with Gabriel being a Angel of the Lord.
    I didn't say it was wrong with saying Gabriel as an Angel of the LORD, but there is much more Biblical evidence to show that Jesus is the Angel of the LORD that appears numerous times in the OT, and if Jesus is the Angel of the LORD, Gabriel can't be. He is obviously an angel, but he isn't the Angel of the LORD.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,652
    Blog Entries
    12
    Jesus is an angel? Scripture please!
    Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
    Not second or third, but first.
    Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
    when He is the source of all hope,
    when His love is received and freely given,
    holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
    will all other things be added unto to you.


  6. #6
    Do you think Gabriel could represent an Epiphany?

    Blessings,
    RW

  7. #7
    Or, more to the point could Gabriel be a Christophany? Food for thought?

    Blessings,
    RW

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerW View Post
    Or, more to the point could Gabriel be a Christophany? Food for thought?

    Blessings,
    RW
    Gabriel appeared to... Mary (or was it Joseph?) at one point while Mary was pregnant. It wouldn't make sense for Gabriel to be talking to Mary from outside of her body if Gabriel was a Christophany.

    Jesus is an angel? Scripture please!
    "Angel" comes from the Greek word "Angelus," which means "messenger." In turn, the Hebrew word "malak" also simply means "messenger." It is used just as often, if not more, in reference to humans than it is to the heavenly host.

    By calling Jesus "Angel of the LORD" He is simply being called "Messenger of the LORD." It does not mean Jesus is a created being, only that He was presenting a message directly from God. Many times (if not every time) that the Angel of the LORD speaks, it says the LORD Himself is speaking. According to Jesus words, no one has seen God the Father, yet the OT says people have seen God, which would lead us to believe the Angel (or "Messenger") of the LORD was a pre-incarnate Jesus.

    It was only over time that the word "angel" came to denote the idea of a heavenly being who serves God.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Gabriel appeared to... Mary (or was it Joseph?) at one point while Mary was pregnant. It wouldn't make sense for Gabriel to be talking to Mary from outside of her body if Gabriel was a Christophany.
    Why? Fully Divine, while fully human? I'm not being dogmatic here, simply putting forth questions regarding not only the angel Gabriel, but also the angel Michael. There have been good arguments presented that both Gabriel and Michael may represent Christ, or be a Christophany. I have not studied the topic well enough to decide for or against this argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    "Angel" comes from the Greek word "Angelus," which means "messenger." In turn, the Hebrew word "malak" also simply means "messenger." It is used just as often, if not more, in reference to humans than it is to the heavenly host.

    By calling Jesus "Angel of the LORD" He is simply being called "Messenger of the LORD." It does not mean Jesus is a created being, only that He was presenting a message directly from God. Many times (if not every time) that the Angel of the LORD speaks, it says the LORD Himself is speaking. According to Jesus words, no one has seen God the Father, yet the OT says people have seen God, which would lead us to believe the Angel (or "Messenger") of the LORD was a pre-incarnate Jesus.
    Yes, even before He was clothed in human flesh, He is the Messenger of the LORD. How is it possible to have this angel/Messenger of the LORD as the pre-incarnate Jesus (a Christophany) before His earthly birth, and death, but not possible for Gabriel speaking to Mary also be a Christophany? "The" angel of the Lord...is this Christ announcing His own human birth?

    Lu 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
    Lu 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
    Lu 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
    Lu 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
    Lu 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
    Lu 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

    Blessings,
    RW

  10. #10
    Why? Fully Divine, while fully human?
    When Jesus was conceived within Mary He was "made a little lower than the angels." Essentially, while He was a man Jesus "gave up" His "Godhood." He was still God, but He was without His Godly capacities. Which would include being in more than location at once (inside Mary's womb and outside of the womb talking to her). And surely if Gabriel was Christ he would have mentioned so to Mary. "Hey Mary. You're gonna be my mom!" (Thumbs up)

    I'm not being dogmatic here, simply putting forth questions regarding not only the angel Gabriel, but also the angel Michael. There have been good arguments presented that both Gabriel and Michael may represent Christ, or be a Christophany. I have not studied the topic well enough to decide for or against this argument.
    If you notice all of the OT accounts of the Angel of the LORD, whenever the Angel speaks, it is identified as God Himself speaking, and whenever people encounter the Angel they usually refer how they saw God Himself. In each instance that this occurs we can safely conclude the Angel of the LORD is God Himself, Jesus.

    As for the NT reference to the angel of the Lord in Luke's account, it depends on the translation you get. The King James Bible identifies him as "the angel of the Lord," but others, ranging from Young's Literal Translation to the NIV to the NAS each say it is an angel, not a particularly specific angel like the Angel of the LORD.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    When Jesus was conceived within Mary He was "made a little lower than the angels." Essentially, while He was a man Jesus "gave up" His "Godhood." He was still God, but He was without His Godly capacities. Which would include being in more than location at once (inside Mary's womb and outside of the womb talking to her). And surely if Gabriel was Christ he would have mentioned so to Mary. "Hey Mary. You're gonna be my mom!" (Thumbs up)
    Jesus had not yet been conceived when Gabriel spoke to her. Gabriel tells her she will conceive, not that she was already with child. Mary questions him, and he says the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, not that the Holy Ghost had already come upon her.

    Lu 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

    Lu 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
    Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    Blessings,
    RW

  12. #12
    Ah, my mistake.

    But I still wonder; if Gabriel was Jesus, why did he never say such a thing?

    It just seems like you're using circumstantial evidence to come to a conclusion that is not necessarily there.

    It's like how Mormons believe Michael became Adam who became Michael again. Or how JWs believe Michael became Jesus who became Michael again. It's has no real support other than coincidences that aren't even related to each other (well, the JWs version has some strong arguments, but the Bible does not explicitly or implicitly say that Jesus is/was ever Michael). I'll give an example of what you're doing:

    I've never seen my girlfriend and my roommate's girlfriend in the same room at the same time. They must be the same person! They're the same height! They both speak English! They're both in college! Because of these few similarities and the fact I've never seen them together means they're the same individual, right?

    It's circumstantial evidence that doesn't really prove anything.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Ah, my mistake.

    But I still wonder; if Gabriel was Jesus, why did he never say such a thing?

    It just seems like you're using circumstantial evidence to come to a conclusion that is not necessarily there.

    It's like how Mormons believe Michael became Adam who became Michael again. Or how JWs believe Michael became Jesus who became Michael again. It's has no real support other than coincidences that aren't even related to each other (well, the JWs version has some strong arguments, but the Bible does not explicitly or implicitly say that Jesus is/was ever Michael). I'll give an example of what you're doing:

    I've never seen my girlfriend and my roommate's girlfriend in the same room at the same time. They must be the same person! They're the same height! They both speak English! They're both in college! Because of these few similarities and the fact I've never seen them together means they're the same individual, right?

    It's circumstantial evidence that doesn't really prove anything.
    Maybe I can help you better understand how I am responding to the OP by defining Christophany: Christophany is from the Greek words [christos] meaning anointed one, and [phaninomai], meaning manifestation or appearance. Thus a Christophany is the appearance of Jesus Christ (the anointed), the second person of the Trinity come to earth in another form (an angel, man, etc.). That is to say, Christ appears to man in a form which they can visibly see. For example, Christ's appearance to his disciples after His crucifixion and death, or His appearance in the furnace of fire with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

    The OP makes an excellent observation, seeing Gabriel as the angel of redemption...The Angel of the LORD. With this observation I agree. So my question remains, is it likely that Gabriel represents a manifestation of Christ or a Christophany? I believe there is much biblical evidence to show that not only is Gabriel a Christophany, but Michael likewise could certainly be a manifestation or appearance of Jesus Christ in another form; i.e. a Christophany.

    Many Blessings,
    RW

  14. #14
    I think that the confusion here is stemming from a mis-translated indefinite article in the KJV.

    In the Textus Receptus (Elzevir 1624) which is what I have with me, the word used in Luke 2:9 is (transliterated) Aggelos (Angel). As there is no definite article found before the word, the indefinite article is assumed: That is to say that if the angel had been The Angel of The Lord (which I agree is an appearance of Jesus in the OT), the wording would have been "ho aggelos".

    For example: "En arcane ane ho logos kai ho logos ane pros ton theon kai theos ane ho logos". (Lit. "in beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and God was the Word) John 1:1

    As the definite article "ho" is missing in front of the word "aggelos", then the correct reading is "an angel" (of the Lord) and not "The angel" (of the Lord).

    Just thought I'd throw that in (a little bit of Greek is a dangerous thing )
    Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



    ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


    A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by RogerW View Post
    There have been good arguments presented that both Gabriel and Michael may represent Christ, or be a Christophany. I have not studied the topic well enough to decide for or against this argument.
    I agree that Michael is a representation or title of Christ. But Gabriel announcing the coming of the Messiah to Mary tends to indicate to me the he is not. Further, Michael came to help out Gabriel in his struggle with the prince of Persia in the book of Daniel, indicating they are two separate beings.

    The presence of Gabriel in Daniel and at the coming of the Messiah is a link from the prophecies of Daniel about the Messiah to the actual event. That is, Daniel 9 we have the vision of the Messiah. And in the gospels, Gabriel shows up to say that what was predicted in Daniel 9 is now comming to pass.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •