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Thread: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

  1. #166
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    Tongues here is listed last or the least after the first, second, third etc etc...Paul lists everything in order of importance. Of course he is speaking about being able to speak foreign languages not this other thing found in some churches.
    Do you believe in speaking or praying tongues as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance ? And is it for today ?

  2. #167
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    Tongues here is listed last or the least after the first, second, third etc etc...Paul lists everything in order of importance. Of course he is speaking about being able to speak foreign languages not this other thing found in some churches.
    Right, that also is an important passage, completing the idea. Tongues ranks last in importance among the gifts. And this is not because it lacks value. It is only because other gifts are more valuable, in reaching out to others. The greatest in God's Kingdom is the one who lives to serve all--not just himself. It is important, however, that we love ourselves before we can love others "as we love ourselves."

  3. #168
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendac View Post
    Absolutely randyk, you are so right, however, as you say, it does not mean that tongues are unimportant, and we do need to look at edifying and encouraging one another.

    Thank you so much for your input.
    One of the greatest ways to edify one's self is to sing praise songs to God. But I think the supernatural gifts are designed by God to inject something in us that is separate from our own mental facilities. So when we speak by revelation and are inspired from above, what we say is not a gift from us to God, but rather, a gift from God to us. We do need a partnership from heaven so that God's role in this relationship becomes obvious.

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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Do you believe in speaking or praying tongues as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance ? And is it for today ?
    Only if it is actually from the HS but in scripture the tongues from the HS was always understood when it gave utterance. That's the miracle of it. The whole speaking and having a translator things we read of is people speaking foreign languages to an audience that needs the message translated into their language.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    I am a cessationist. Back in the 80ís I was a charismatic/continuationist. Back then the it seemed like I was in the minority. Most Christians I knew outside my church rejected tongues. Now Iím a cessationist and again it seems like Iím in the minority. Most Christians I know outside my church believe in it today.

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  6. #171
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Yes, absolutely. I would, however, also say that it doesn't happen as often as some charismatic groups would have you believe. Not nearly as often.

  7. #172
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, I told you my opinion that tongues is the least among those mentioned because of what Paul said in those verses. It seems to me that all of the other gifts Paul mentions minister to others, beyond just the self. And Paul's point is that any gift that ministers to more than just the self is *better.* For me, that makes tongues the least effective and least important gift.

    I would hasten to add that this does not mean tongues is unimportant. Paul brags that he spoke in tongues more than all others that he knew. He obviously felt it was that important. However, in Paul's mind tongues is less important than the other gifts because *it only ministers to the self.* If this does not communicate to you what I said, then yes, we have different opinions.
    You acknowledge Paul's statement that he spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthians (that's a lot), but you then suggest that "in Paul's mind" it was the least important, even though he never wrote that.

    Two points:

    A. While praying in tongues does not have a direct impact on others, the byproduct of building one's self up in the Spirit is a boldness for Christ (Acts 1:8). I know this from my own experience.
    B. When coupled with the gift of interpretation, it does indeed have a direct impact on others.

    I can't begin to explain the positive difference it has made in my life and walk with God. Did it seem the least on the day of Pentecost? Or at Cornelius' house?

    Do you pray in tongues Randy? (Sorry if you've answered that and I overlooked.)

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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    Tongues here is listed last or the least after the first, second, third etc etc...Paul lists everything in order of importance. Of course he is speaking about being able to speak foreign languages not this other thing found in some churches.
    Because it's listed last that makes it least? Are we then to assume that it's ranked higher than every gift that's not included in the list in verse 28, using that same logic?

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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Because it's listed last that makes it least?
    Yes. I believe it's a list of things in order of importance.

    Are we then to assume that it's ranked higher than every gift that's not included in the list in verse 28, using that same logic?
    I think it's best not to over think it. Paul listed things in an order and that's that. The true issue is what unknown tongues is and is not. It's not some magical angel language people spontaneously speak and someone has to interpret. Unknown tongues is speaking in foreign languages...German or Spanish or Greek. It's not what is found in some churches. That kind of "tongues" is a misrepresentation and severe misunderstanding of what Paul speaks of. I know you disagree but that's what we are here to discuss.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Seems that for a gift of the Holy Spirit that is thought of as least, God moves Paul to devote an entire lesson for that gift and in the lesson, explains the importance of that gift concerning either individual or corporate purpose of that specific gift... just saying
    Slug1--out

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  11. #176
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yes. I believe it's a list of things in order of importance.



    I think it's best not to over think it. Paul listed things in an order and that's that. The true issue is what unknown tongues is and is not. It's not some magical angel language people spontaneously speak and someone has to interpret. Unknown tongues is speaking in foreign languages...German or Spanish or Greek. It's not what is found in some churches. That kind of "tongues" is a misrepresentation and severe misunderstanding of what Paul speaks of. I know you disagree but that's what we are here to discuss.
    I believe you’re overthinking your ranking since it’s not in the text.

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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    You acknowledge Paul's statement that he spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthians (that's a lot), but you then suggest that "in Paul's mind" it was the least important, even though he never wrote that.

    Two points:

    A. While praying in tongues does not have a direct impact on others, the byproduct of building one's self up in the Spirit is a boldness for Christ (Acts 1:8). I know this from my own experience.
    B. When coupled with the gift of interpretation, it does indeed have a direct impact on others.

    I can't begin to explain the positive difference it has made in my life and walk with God. Did it seem the least on the day of Pentecost? Or at Cornelius' house?

    Do you pray in tongues Randy? (Sorry if you've answered that and I overlooked.)
    Amen ! Praise God ! You are not alone with this positive difference .

  13. #178
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    You acknowledge Paul's statement that he spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthians (that's a lot), but you then suggest that "in Paul's mind" it was the least important, even though he never wrote that.

    Two points:

    A. While praying in tongues does not have a direct impact on others, the byproduct of building one's self up in the Spirit is a boldness for Christ (Acts 1:8). I know this from my own experience.
    B. When coupled with the gift of interpretation, it does indeed have a direct impact on others.

    I can't begin to explain the positive difference it has made in my life and walk with God. Did it seem the least on the day of Pentecost? Or at Cornelius' house?

    Do you pray in tongues Randy? (Sorry if you've answered that and I overlooked.)
    In early 1971 I huddled with fellow Jesus People and got prayed over by Lutherans turned Pentecostals. They laid hands on me and told me to "move my lips" and expected me to do what they were doing, uttering gibberish. At the time, I thought perhaps there was some reality to glossolalia, but I didn't like being manipulated to do something by public pressure. I found myself retiring to another room, where I began to pray, wondering if all this was real. As I prayed, my language got very poetic and seemed to be even a little inspired as I prayed for a number of things. My thought at the time was, "It seems my English is more inspired than the gibberish I engaged in in the other room.

    For a couple of years I practiced glossolalia with the rest of my Jesus People friends. It seemed like a whirlwind hit, and these friends all scattered in several directions. I was left contemplating what I, as an ex-Lutheran, believed. Gradually, I felt I was just making up a very moronic language, and quit.

    I looked at the Scriptures, and decided that Paul taught tongues was only for those to whom God gave it. For some reason, *all* those on the day of Pentecost spoke tongues. And this happened on another occasion as well. So there was an individual gifting of tongues, and there was mass tongues. But the Scriptures taught that not all engage in all the gifts. At the same time Paul taught that it was a good gift to have.

    One day I looked up to heaven and developed a case of "righteous indignation" over the subject in my own mind. I looked up at God and demanded from Him a sign that tongues were real, or I would start to dismiss prayer language altogether, ie tongues. I demanded a "sign from heaven," which I promptly withdrew in favor of the more humble, "sign on earth." At that very moment, a flash of light shot up to heaven, and then fell back to earth. I hadn't realized that we were so close to the 4th of July. A firework had just gone off, to mark a renewed belief in tongues. I don't recall seeing any other fireworks go off that entire day!

    So I do believe in tongues. But I continue to believe it is a prayer language only for those to whom the Holy Spirit gives it. On rare occasion God may excite a tongues gift in *all present* to mark a special day or occurrence. That is what I believe happened on the Day of Pentecost.

    Tongues is the least only if it is not accompanied by an interpretation. But tongues is less than tongues with the interpretation--I think you can agree to that? So no, I'm not saying tongues is unimportant. It is a lesser gift, but it is important, just like your little toe is as important as your big toe!

    If you have a tongues gift, and tongues is a lesser gift, that does not make you inferior to me. On the contrary, one with the gift of tongues can also have other gifts, whether teaching, pastoring, or evangelizing. We are not to compare ourselves with one another in this way, but to strive to work together, allowing our individual gifts to complement one another.

    Please don't misunderstand my characterization of tongues as if I think it unimportant. It is important for the very reason you give. It is a supernatural gift that allows God to recharge you for ministry. So it is a springboard for greater things. But the initial spring is important, particularly if you go on to use it to do more. Paul's only concern was that we don't do more, and just recede into the background, content with living as a spiritual hermit. You're certainly not that, right?

  14. #179
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Gradually, I felt I was just making up a very moronic language, and quit.
    I pray that everyone comes to this realization.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  15. #180
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    Re: Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I pray that everyone comes to this realization.
    Fortunately, that's not going to happen.

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