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Thread: Did Eve add to the word of God?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    There is no evidence at all to support that eve has claimed God said something that he did not say to her.
    Just like there's no evidence that, following Christ's resurrection we can repent after we die!

    Actually there is evidence of what God said and what Eve said God said - she added a requirement which wasn't there in the first place, making God's restriction greater than it was.

    We don't know what was said so we cannot say she is lying or else we judge her with no evidence at all.
    Well if you believe that Scripture is sufficient, then we have been told what God said! Period!

    Besides, it makes no sense to add more rules to something because you dislike the one lone rule. It would make more sense to alter or change the one rule not add more.
    Well you don't know much about human nature!

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9Marksfan View Post
    Actually there is evidence of what God said and what Eve said God said - she added a requirement which wasn't there in the first place, making God's restriction greater than it was.
    We only have what God told Adam before Eve existed. All we know about what Eve was told was her own testimony. Now, to call someone a liar you have to have two witnesses that can testify as proof. You seem to be pretty convinced she lied but I don't see any proof nor any witnesses to back up your accusation.

    Lastly, why do you wish to play the role of accuser? Don't we have enough people that do that already?
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    We only have what God told Adam before Eve existed. All we know about what Eve was told was her own testimony. Now, to call someone a liar you have to have two witnesses that can testify as proof. You seem to be pretty convinced she lied but I don't see any proof nor any witnesses to back up your accusation.

    Lastly, why do you wish to play the role of accuser? Don't we have enough people that do that already?


    I don't think she lied either. My Bible says that the devil was the first liar and the father of it. No matter how one wants to reason it, adding to what God said, would be lying. How can it not be? But Eve didn't add to the Word of God. I just don't see how she could have.

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it


    As far as I can tell, the first recorded lie was in Genesis 3:4

    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


    So if Eve lied in verse 3, then this makes her a liar even before the serpent. Gen 3:13 tells us exactly what the serpent did. He deceived her.

    Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat


    2 Corinthians 11:3 backs up that fact.

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    We only have what God told Adam before Eve existed. All we know about what Eve was told was her own testimony. Now, to call someone a liar you have to have two witnesses that can testify as proof. You seem to be pretty convinced she lied but I don't see any proof nor any witnesses to back up your accusation.
    I am not saying Eve was a liar - but she distorted what God said! That's ABUNDANTLY clear! Now whether Adam added to what God said or whether in the moment she was thinking how to repsond to the doubt Satan was sowing in her mind, we don't know - but that she distorted God's word by adding to it is unmistakeable.

    Lastly, why do you wish to play the role of accuser? Don't we have enough people that do that already?
    I will challenge people when they are in error, especially in their overall approach to Scripture. I'm sorry if you think that is accusing - but so many people take an unhelpful approach to the Scriptures, twisting them, taking them out of context and imposing their own views on them that some of us have to point out their error - or everyone will think their approach is OK!

    Or am I picking you up incorrectly?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I don't think she lied either. My Bible says that the devil was the first liar and the father of it. No matter how one wants to reason it, adding to what God said, would be lying. How can it not be?
    It was distorting - possibly as a result of Satan casting doubt in her mind.

    But Eve didn't add to the Word of God. I just don't see how she could have.
    Well it's there in black and white for all to see!

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it

    As far as I can tell, the first recorded lie was in Genesis 3:4

    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    So if Eve lied in verse 3, then this makes her a liar even before the serpent. Gen 3:13 tells us exactly what the serpent did. He deceived her.
    But didn't that deception start with the doubt Satan sowed in her mind? And didn't the distortion follow as a result?

    Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat

    2 Corinthians 11:3 backs up that fact.

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    Amen - but then beguuiling started with "Did God actually say?" - it's so often the same wth us!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9Marksfan View Post
    I am not saying Eve was a liar - but she distorted what God said! That's ABUNDANTLY clear!

    Really? Do ribs have ears?

    Now whether Adam added to what God said or whether in the moment she was thinking how to repsond to the doubt Satan was sowing in her mind, we don't know - but that she distorted God's word by adding to it is unmistakeable.
    lol, you just speculated that maybe Adam added to the Word, then you switched it back to Eve. You have no evidence in the least about any distortion to God's word by either of them.



    I will challenge people when they are in error, especially in their overall approach to Scripture. I'm sorry if you think that is accusing - but so many people take an unhelpful approach to the Scriptures, twisting them, taking them out of context and imposing their own views on them that some of us have to point out their error - or everyone will think their approach is OK!
    I think you need to get a really big mirror.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    Really? Do ribs have ears?
    OK - fair point.

    lol, you just speculated that maybe Adam added to the Word, then you switched it back to Eve. You have no evidence in the least about any distortion to God's word by either of them.
    Ah, so you're saying that God said something different to Eve than to Adam? Double standards, eh? Or was Adam allowed to touch and Eve not? Actually, now that I remember, Eve says "we" - so surely God couldn't have told Adam one thing and Eve another?

    What do you think is the explanation?

    I think you need to get a really big mirror.
    This shouldn't get personal - no more similar remarks, please.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9Marksfan View Post
    OK - fair point.



    Ah, so you're saying that God said something different to Eve than to Adam? Double standards, eh? Or was Adam allowed to touch and Eve not? Actually, now that I remember, Eve says "we" - so surely God couldn't have told Adam one thing and Eve another?

    What do you think is the explanation?
    I know why but it's not important to this thread.

    The issue here is that you have accused Eve, or Adam of adding to God's word. But, what verses do you have that show who told Eve the rules, and what was said to her?





    This shouldn't get personal - no more similar remarks, please.
    That's not personal. If you want to be such a big corrector of others you need to be ready to be corrected yourself. To look in the mirror is to hopefully spot your own mistakes and correct them.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    I know why but it's not important to this thread.
    Er - how so? If you are saying "No, Eve categorically did NOT add to the Word of God" but won't tell us why this is wrong - er, do I really need to start another thread to get the anser? Seems a bit OTT but if needs must!

    The issue here is that you have accused Eve, or Adam of adding to God's word. But, what verses do you have that show who told Eve the rules, and what was said to her?
    OK - let's look at the text and what you are contending. First, what God told Adam:-

    And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen 2:16-17 NKJV

    Now what Eve told the serpent her understanding of the prohibition was:-

    Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

    So it's actually SATAN who first distorts God's Word, making it harsher than the actual prohibition - there was only one tree that was forbidden, but the implication is that there was maybe more than one and God was being unfair - whatever, God is not recorded as having said what Satan said.

    And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;[/quote]

    OK - so what God told Adam applies to Eve too - so did God tell Eve? or did Adam? Or do you have a thrid suggestion?

    but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,
    Now - are you suggesting that this was a different tree from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, because it's not called that by Eve and there is no geographical location of it in 2:16-17? In case that was what you were thinking, I don't think so, because of what God says to Adam:-

    And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

    Let's go on to see what Eve says next:-

    God has said,
    What do we make of that? Did Eve trust Adam? Or did God speak direct to Eve? Or did God say something different to Eve later? Or did God say something different to BOTH of them later (because perhaps they'd already touched it)? Or did Moses/the HS forget to include God's full command in 2:16-17? I don't see any other possible explanation - if you have one, please enlighten us.

    ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
    This is VERY different from what God told Adam - care to suggest why?

    [quote]Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.” And the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” Gen 3:1-13 NKJV

    So the man blames the woman and the woman blames the devil! That set a kind of precedent in passing the buck, didn't it?

    Naphal, I'm prepared to be corrected if you can show me from the text that neither Adam nor Eve distorted God's word.

    That's not personal. If you want to be such a big corrector of others you need to be ready to be corrected yourself. To look in the mirror is to hopefully spot your own mistakes and correct them.
    Agreed - I trust you apply the same principle to yourself?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9Marksfan View Post


    OK - let's look at the text and what you are contending. First, what God told Adam:-

    And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen 2:16-17 NKJV

    Now what Eve told the serpent her understanding of the prohibition was:-

    Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

    Yet there is no proof that Eve was not told this. It is assumption with an intent to find wickedness only. There is no evidence.



    And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;
    OK - so what God told Adam applies to Eve too
    [/QUOTE]

    Oh? I don't recall the scripture saying it was addressed to Eve also, especially since she didn't even exist. How do you know what God may have told Eve?



    - so did God tell Eve? or did Adam? Or do you have a thrid suggestion?

    I won't do assumptions like you do. It doesn't say. It also doesn't say she added anything, nor does God charge her with that which should tell you she didnt.




    Naphal, I'm prepared to be corrected if you can show me from the text that neither Adam nor Eve distorted God's word.
    It's already evident that no such crime took place.
    1Peter 3:15
    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphal View Post
    Yet there is no proof that Eve was not told this.
    You cannot prove a negative! Just like elsewhere you say "It doesn't say we can't repent after death"!

    It is assumption with an intent to find wickedness only. There is no evidence.
    Ther is prima facie evidence either that Adam distorted God's when he told Eve or Eve distorted what God told her - those are the only two possibilities that we can reasonably infer from the text. There is no other way in which Eve could have come to that knowledge and we can safely conclude that God did not command her not to touch it - that would be double standards. Later God makes reference to Adam eating - Eve says that neither she nor Adam was permitted to touch the tree - that would be a distortion/extension of God's prohibition! But the real disobedience was to the command itself - DON'T EAT!

    OK - so what God told Adam applies to Eve too
    Oh? I don't recall the scripture saying it was addressed to Eve also, especially since she didn't even exist. How do you know what God may have told Eve?
    Naphal, I find it impossible to reason with you - are you seriously suggesting that it would have been OK for Eve to have eaten from this tree? That Adam was forbidden but Eve wasn't? It's clear that God either expected Adam to tell Eve the command or maybe told him to or he told Eve Himself - these are good and necessary inferences - if I'm wrong, what is your explanation?

    I won't do assumptions like you do. It doesn't say. It also doesn't say she added anything, nor does God charge her with that which should tell you she didnt.
    We can reasonably infer that she added that requirement - and as far as assumptions are concerned, I think that's what you are doing in your second clause!

    It's already evident that no such crime took place.
    It's not - that's just how you want to see it.

    I am not prepared to discuss matters with you further.

  12. #27
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    9Marksfan,

    The way you reason it, you say that Eve distorted God's words, but you say this doesn't make her a liar. How could it not make her a liar? So if anyone distorts God's words or add to His words, this means that they are telling the truth?

    God only gave one commandment, and that commandment was given directly to Adam. We can tell by the text in Gen 3, that Adam was in charge so to say, and that he more than likely instructed Eve concerning this tree.

    Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
    9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?


    Notice who God calls unto...Adam. Why didn't He call unto Eve first, or even call unto both of them? Verse 8 tells us that both heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day.

    And since we're talking about an all knowing God, do you really think God was suprised to find out what had happened? Don't you think He already knew? And if He already knew, why didn't He call out Eve's name first?

    Something else to think about, since Eve's eyes weren't open until after she partook of the fruit, where would she have gotten the idea in her heart to distort what God said? This would imply that she sinned even before she disobeyed that one and only commandment concerning that tree.

    I see sev possibilities as to why Eve thought not to even touch the tree. First of all, it would be impossible to partake of any fruit without touching it first, and secondly, just by simply touching the fruit could lead to more curiosity about the fruit, which could then lead to the actual partaking of the fruit..in which was against that one commandment...not to eat from that tree. I sort of feel that even simply by touching it, is similar to desiring after something in the heart, and partaking of it is the fullfilling of that desire. As long as Eve didn't touch that tree, she wouldn't be able to fullfill the desire to partake of it. This is how the serpent deceived her. He got her first to touch that tree, to desire it in her heart, then he got her to partake of it, fulfilling that desire in her heart.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Genesis 3:2 *And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
    3 *But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


    I have been discussing Genesis 3 elsewhere, and I have discovered, that there are many that interpret this as Eve adding to the word of God. The part where they claim she added to the word of God is this: "neither shall ye touch it".

    Personally I don't believe she added to the word of God. Does anyone think she did. If so, why?

    Genesis is a condensation of snippets of larger texts (written and/or oral), so it may appear to have holes in it. For example, you see no mention of any female besides Eve until Genesis 4 where Cain knew his wife. When you come to the next chapter, we see that Adam fathers 'sons and daughters'.

    The Book Of Jasher does not have the "problem" you reference. But really, would not a person have to touch something before they could eat it, or when they eat it? Perhaps she expounded upon the command.

    Of course, there is the 1st Book Of Adam and Eve. How legit or fake these books are, no one knows. But I have read it, and it gives much more detail (like the Secrets Of Enoch does for the 6 days of creation). Real or not, it is a good read after reading the Holy Bible first.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 9Marksfan View Post
    I am not saying Eve was a liar - but she distorted what God said! That's ABUNDANTLY clear! Now whether Adam added to what God said or whether in the moment she was thinking how to repsond to the doubt Satan was sowing in her mind, we don't know - but that she distorted God's word by adding to it is unmistakeable.
    Nigel greetings

    Why do you believe everything God said to Adam was recorded in the Bible?

    terrell

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Something else to think about, since Eve's eyes weren't open until after she partook of the fruit, where would she have gotten the idea in her heart to distort what God said? This would imply that she sinned even before she disobeyed that one and only commandment concerning that tree.
    This brings up a very interesting point....the fact that the curse didn't come into effect until both of them had partaken of the fruit. When Eve first consumed it, her eyes were not immediately opened...It wasn't until Adam also ate of the fruit that both of their eyes were opened.

    This leads me to conclude that, during the gap of time between Eve's partaking of the fruit, and Adam partaking of it (the period of time wherein Eve gave Adam to eat of the fruit), Eve probably did think God to be untruthful. Not only that, but it makes sense that, when Adam saw that his wife had eaten, and her eyes did not become opened, he probably figured that God had been dishonest with them.

    I do believe that they were quite shocked when their eyes were finally opened, not just because of the drastic change which took place within them, but because they realized that God had been telling the truth, even after they had falsely concluded that He hadn't.

    It's funny....a lot of people conclude that their eyes were opened because of some property within the fruit, but if this had been the case, then Eve's eyes would have immediately been opened upon her consumption of it, which obviously was not the case, because we all know that the curse didn't come into effect until after both of them had partaken.

    I also believe that Satan played on this when he deceived Eve, knowing full well that, after she had partaken, and noticed no difference, she would have doubted God....and that Adam, seeing this, would also have doubted the validity of God's statement.
    That's why I completely agree with the above poster who emphasized the fact that they didn't trust God. Instead, they trusted the serpent, which led them to trust their own instincts (the fact that nothing happened after Eve ate), rather than the word of God. This incident just emphasizes our need to trust the Lord, despite appearances.

    I see sev possibilities as to why Eve thought not to even touch the tree. First of all, it would be impossible to partake of any fruit without touching it first, and secondly, just by simply touching the fruit could lead to more curiosity about the fruit, which could then lead to the actual partaking of the fruit..in which was against that one commandment...not to eat from that tree. I sort of feel that even simply by touching it, is similar to desiring after something in the heart, and partaking of it is the fullfilling of that desire. As long as Eve didn't touch that tree, she wouldn't be able to fullfill the desire to partake of it. This is how the serpent deceived her. He got her first to touch that tree, to desire it in her heart, then he got her to partake of it, fulfilling that desire in her heart.
    I personally believe that Eve got her information from Adam. As we know that Adam did not lie, then we are left with 2 possibilities. Either God told Adam to tell Eve not to touch it, or Adam added that part on himself, which I find highly improbable, as this would constitute him adding to God's Word.

    If Adam had directly instructed Eve instead of God, then that would have left the perfect opportunity for Satan to deceive Eve. Because Eve would not have received the command directly from God, this would have left a huge opportunity for Eve to question it. After all, she would not have received the command directly from God, but from Adam.

    Eve could have thought "What if God didn't really say that? After all, Adam was the one who told me...not God. What if Adam misinformed me?"
    If God had told her directly, it would have been much easier for her to refute Satan's lie, but the fact that she didn't hear it directly from God could have left some window of doubt.
    This would open up a whole new can of worms, as Satan would be playing, not only on what God said, but also on Eve's trust of Adam. Not only would Satan be casting doubt on God's word, but also on Adam's...he was planting seeds of distrust, not only on the divine level, but also on the human level.

    IMO, it would make logical sense that, since Eve questioned Adam's authority, and his integrity, by eating of the fruit....basically, she distrusted the accuracy of his word....a rift occurred between Adam and Eve. This was part of the curse...because Eve questioned the word which God had given her through Adam. While both of them rebelled against God, it was Adam who directly rebelled against Him, as God gave him the word directly....Eve indirectly rebelled, but she was more or less rebelling against Adam's instruction....then, when Adam noticed that the fruit had not immediately affected Eve, that's when he decided to rebel.

    It has been said that sin is passed through the seed of the man, and not the woman. If it was Adam who directly rebelled against God, then this would make perfect sense.

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