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Thread: The dangers of running after 'signs' and 'wonders'....

  1. #1
    ARCHER42 Guest

    The dangers of running after 'signs' and 'wonders'....

    Just wanted to get some input into what you thought about the 'danger' of Christian's running after and following 'signs and wonders'... is there a danger? What did Jesus the Christ teach about following after signs and wonders... Today as you see this gathering conference and that gathering conference.. miracles here .. miracles there... are there just people going to those to 'see' those miracles? are they there to just get a 'rush' from the experience? I'd like to hear some input from some people... Lets try to keep this civil... Please. and thank you beforehand...

    Just a side note: I personally believe that the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is a supernatural God and that He still does heal and do miracles today. He has not changed for He does not change and He is the same today yesterday and forever. The greatest miracle is the New Birth.. when God does His work in the heart of an unbeliever.. bringing them to repentance thru the Revelation of His Goodness in their lives.. even though it was 'unmerited' and they did not deserve it.

  2. #2
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    I see a danger in it when it distracts from the message. You have to always ask if it is glorifying god or not. Alot of them I see on TV do not. Signs by themselves are nothing unless they point the way and glorify the saviour. Remember that the magitians in Pharoas court could also turn their staffs into Snakes. Satan can and does try to copy the signs of God. This is why I think Jesus warns us about only looking for signs, less we be decieved.
    ὁ ̓Ιησοῦς κύριος

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHER42 View Post
    Just wanted to get some input into what you thought about the 'danger' of Christian's running after and following 'signs and wonders'... is there a danger? What did Jesus the Christ teach about following after signs and wonders... Today as you see this gathering conference and that gathering conference.. miracles here .. miracles there... are there just people going to those to 'see' those miracles? are they there to just get a 'rush' from the experience? I'd like to hear some input from some people... Lets try to keep this civil... Please. and thank you beforehand...

    Just a side note: I personally believe that the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is a supernatural God and that He still does heal and do miracles today. He has not changed for He does not change and He is the same today yesterday and forever. The greatest miracle is the New Birth.. when God does His work in the heart of an unbeliever.. bringing them to repentance thru the Revelation of His Goodness in their lives.. even though it was 'unmerited' and they did not deserve it.


    I guess I'm confused. What signs and wonders are you talking about? I'm 50, and I've never seen any signs and wonders. I was charismatic for awhile, some 10-15 yrs ago, still didn't see any signs and wonders. Can you clarify as to which signs and wonders you're referring and where they can be found?

  4. #4
    ARCHER42 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I guess I'm confused. What signs and wonders are you talking about? I'm 50, and I've never seen any signs and wonders. I was charismatic for awhile, some 10-15 yrs ago, still didn't see any signs and wonders. Can you clarify as to which signs and wonders you're referring and where they can be found?

    Diva,
    I'm talking about the coming of the lawless one.. the man of sin.. and the power and signs and lying wonders that accompany that . It is declared in Scripture that this will be on the increase and will be very evident during the tribulation and great tribulation. It goes right along with the Apostacy or falling away....Jesus Himself said that the deception would be so strong that even the 'elect' could be decieved.

    You can turn on any Christian telvision station today and they're there... They even have 'signs' and 'wonder's conferences.... My question was what are the dangers of following these and making them your 'worship'..... The Bible declares that the Pharisees... ALWAYS required a Sign.. they Tempted Jesus many times to 'give them a sign to prove He was from God'.....

    There are 'genuine' miracles out there those that recieve them will testify to the fact that they did happen.. and they will 'glorify' Jesus the Christ and He will get the glory and praise..

    My first question stands....

  5. #5

    I decided to know nothing except...

    ...Christ and Him crucified.

    In this world, there is alot of information/knowledge that can be known (in Christianity also).

    We can choose to become 'masters of intellect'/scholars of ancient cultures and their worship habits, scriptures, and ancient names of God (Yashua, Jehovah, etc.), but these are all distractions from the TRUTH and SPIRIT of a true devotion (scholars glorify themselves, not Jesus), but the spirit had not yet been given (John 7:39).

    Each person can make the choice to become zealous/excited about 'miracles', signs and wonders (the Jews and the Greeks did this, 1 Corinthians 1:22, Matthew 12:39), but if we want to be a TRUE worshipper (John 4:23) and know God as "ABBA FATHER" (DEAR Father, Romans 815, Galatians 4:6) and be a"FRIEND of God", James 2:23), we should choose to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).

    Many Christians choose the distractions (from TRUTH) of signs, wonders, "wisdom"/knowledge, miracles, etc. and do not have a passion for [objective] TRUTH ("AND SO BE SAVED", 2 Thessalonians 2:10).

    We need to know "the depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10) and have our conscience purified (Hebrews 6:9) by learning "the sword of the spirit" (Ephesians 6:17) instead of just learn the introductory doctrine of Jesus (Hebrews 6:1), which is the "word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 1:13, John 14:6) instead of continuing on with fear (1 John 4:18) and distractions from a true devotion (1 Corinthians 12:31).

    Faith should borne out of LOVE ("the GREATEST", 1 Corinthians 13:13), not suspenseful distractions, ego, text, etc. TRUE Christianity is a LOVE, not a faith, neither is God a 'book'.

    God constructed scripture so that the spiritual mind (Romans 12:2) will find the spiritual message, and the carnal mind will find a carnal message (as in the parables, Matthew 13:13 and 19). It is the carnal mind that seeks signs and wonders.

    'sin laws' (Ephesians 2:15).
    "law of liberty" (James 1:25 and 2:12).
    living "water" baptism (John 7:38, Rev. 7:16, 2 Corin. 1:22, 5:5, Ephes. 1:14).

    Distractions from truth cause alot of damage ("STRONG delusion").

    http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search...tee&t=RSV&sf=5

    All verses are from the RSV (most reliable and understandable).
    Last edited by more excellent way; May 26th 2008 at 11:23 PM. Reason: add verse

  6. #6
    ARCHER42 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by more excellent way View Post
    ...Christ and Him crucified.

    In this world, there is alot of information/knowledge that can be known (in Christianity also).

    We can choose to become 'masters of intellect'/scholars of ancient cultures and their worship habits, scriptures, and ancient names of God (Yashua, Jehovah, etc.), but these are all distractions from the TRUTH and SPIRIT of a true devotion (scholars glorify themselves, not Jesus), but the spirit had not yet been given (John 7:39).

    Each person can make the choice to become zealous/excited about 'miracles', signs and wonders (the Jews and the Greeks did this, 1 Corinthians 1:22, Matthew 12:39), but if we want to be a TRUE worshipper (John 4:23) and know God as "ABBA FATHER" (DEAR Father, Romans 815, Galatians 4:6) and be a"FRIEND of God", James 2:23), we should choose to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).

    Many Christians choose the distractions (from TRUTH) of signs, wonders, "wisdom"/knowledge, miracles, etc. and do not have a passion for [objective] TRUTH ("AND SO BE SAVED", 2 Thessalonians 2:10).

    We need to know "the depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10) and have our conscience purified (Hebrews 6:9) by learning "the sword of the spirit" (Ephesians 6:17) instead of just learn the introductory doctrine of Jesus (Hebrews 6:1), which is the "word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 1:13, John 14:6) instead of continuing on with fear (1 John 4:18) and distractions from a true devotion (1 Corinthians 12:31).

    Faith should borne out of LOVE ("the GREATEST", 1 Corinthians 13:13), not suspenseful distractions, ego, text, etc. TRUE Christianity is a LOVE, not a faith, neither is God a 'book'.

    God constructed scripture so that the spiritual mind (Romans 12:2) will find the spiritual message, and the carnal mind will find a carnal message (as in the parables, Matthew 13:13 and 19). It is the carnal mind that seeks signs and wonders.

    'sin laws' (Ephesians 2:15).
    "law of liberty" (James 1:25 and 2:12).
    living "water" baptism (John 7:38, Rev. 7:16, 2 Corin. 1:22, 5:5, Ephes. 1:14).

    Distractions from truth cause alot of damage ("STRONG delusion").

    http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search...tee&t=RSV&sf=5

    All verses are from the RSV (most reliable and understandable).
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Good post... thank you..... Paul was 'determined'...... to know Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

    That I may know Him , and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of HIS sufferings, being made conformable unto His death...
    Phillipians 3:9

    "knowing' Him is very clear and should be the first priority in a Christians walk.. Jesus Himself said that at the Judgement many will stand before Him and claim all these great things they had done in His name..
    Then He tells them to depart from Him... for He NEVER 'KNEW' them......

    As a young Christian this was the most 'scariest' verse or the most 'reverent' verse in my Bible studies.. It wasnt until I dug into the Greek and did a word study on the word 'know'... its interesting what you find...


    I also agree that there can be many distractions out there that can distract you from the Truth.. Those that appeal to the fleshly and carnal mind....

    those that KNOW Him and who are abiding in Truth and Worshipping in Spirit... 'have the mind of Christ.'

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Let me pose this question......

    Does a miracle 'constitute' Truth? or in an easier way to describe it..

    does a miracle when done or performed... does the miracle in itself prove that 'its from God?'

  7. #7
    ARCHER42 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jollyrogers View Post
    I see a danger in it when it distracts from the message. You have to always ask if it is glorifying god or not. Alot of them I see on TV do not. Signs by themselves are nothing unless they point the way and glorify the saviour. Remember that the magitians in Pharoas court could also turn their staffs into Snakes. Satan can and does try to copy the signs of God. This is why I think Jesus warns us about only looking for signs, less we be decieved.
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Some very good points.. thank you for your response.

  8. #8
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    Hey Archer You know me short on words and direct to the point...I think the danger is those who keep looking for signs are looking OUT not INWARD I tried to rep you but I am out so a board rep
    The story of Job teaches us that the Devil has to be given permission to attack us. So if God is allowing the attack surely He's planning our victory. He would not allow us to be in a battle we could not win.! God looks for hand-picked people He can send into difficult environments, that He might be glorified. He makes all things "work together for good" (Ro 8:28) so don't be intimidated. Just keep your eyes open and see what God is up to!

  9. #9
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    We are told a time will come when the antichrist will come and will perform miracles and wonders....


    Not sure how to quote here "Let me pose this question......

    Does a miracle 'constitute' Truth? or in an easier way to describe it..

    does a miracle when done or performed... does the miracle in itself prove that 'its from God?' end quote
    The story of Job teaches us that the Devil has to be given permission to attack us. So if God is allowing the attack surely He's planning our victory. He would not allow us to be in a battle we could not win.! God looks for hand-picked people He can send into difficult environments, that He might be glorified. He makes all things "work together for good" (Ro 8:28) so don't be intimidated. Just keep your eyes open and see what God is up to!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARCHER42 View Post
    Just wanted to get some input into what you thought about the 'danger' of Christian's running after and following 'signs and wonders'... is there a danger? What did Jesus the Christ teach about following after signs and wonders... Today as you see this gathering conference and that gathering conference.. miracles here .. miracles there... are there just people going to those to 'see' those miracles? are they there to just get a 'rush' from the experience? I'd like to hear some input from some people... Lets try to keep this civil... Please. and thank you beforehand...

    Just a side note: I personally believe that the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is a supernatural God and that He still does heal and do miracles today. He has not changed for He does not change and He is the same today yesterday and forever. The greatest miracle is the New Birth.. when God does His work in the heart of an unbeliever.. bringing them to repentance thru the Revelation of His Goodness in their lives.. even though it was 'unmerited' and they did not deserve it.
    Running afer signs and wonders is noting new, Even the multitudes ran after Jesus because of the signs and wonders. However, Jesus did not rebuke them but had compasin for them because tghey were shepherdless.

    Likewise, we need not worry about those who run after the signs and wonders. There are those that are legitimate BUT more so should we be concerned that that too do not remain shepherdless. We need to lok at these peole not with disdame but with the heart and they eyes of compassin just like Jesus had.

  11. #11
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    Jesus said "an evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign" Matt 12:39

    Bill Engvall said "Here's your sign"


    Mark 16:14 And these signs will follow them that believe...

    If you are not seeing signs and wonders try looking behind you. If you are looking behind you and don't see anything you probably got some work to do.
    Christianity is a leap of faith, not the abandonment of logic.

  12. #12
    ARCHER42 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley274 View Post
    Hey Archer You know me short on words and direct to the point...I think the danger is those who keep looking for signs are looking OUT not INWARD I tried to rep you but I am out so a board rep

    Good point Ashley... not only our we suppose to be looking inward and 'examing' ourselves.. but looking 'upward' towards the Heavens as we see that 'day' approaching... We wait for the Blessed Hope .... waiting and looking for the 'redemption' of our bodies.....keeping the Word of His patience...

    Maranatha... even so Come Lord Jesus...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1of7000 View Post
    Jesus said "an evil and adulterous generation seeketh a sign" Matt 12:39
    Jesus said that to the Pharisees. Those that came to him seeking healing were healed. Jesus even "complained" in John 6 that people were seeking him because of bread and not because of the signs and wonders.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Quote Originally Posted by amazzin View Post
    Running afer signs and wonders is noting new, Even the multitudes ran after Jesus because of the signs and wonders. However, Jesus did not rebuke them but had compasin for them because tghey were shepherdless.

    Likewise, we need not worry about those who run after the signs and wonders. There are those that are legitimate BUT more so should we be concerned that that too do not remain shepherdless. We need to lok at these peole not with disdame but with the heart and they eyes of compassin just like Jesus had.
    AMEN! Excellent point Brother.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  15. #15
    ARCHER42 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by amazzin View Post
    Running afer signs and wonders is noting new, Even the multitudes ran after Jesus because of the signs and wonders. However, Jesus did not rebuke them but had compasin for them because tghey were shepherdless.

    Likewise, we need not worry about those who run after the signs and wonders. There are those that are legitimate BUT more so should we be concerned that that too do not remain shepherdless. We need to lok at these peole not with disdame but with the heart and they eyes of compassin just like Jesus had.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I agree that running after signs and wonders are nothing new.. People followed Jesus when He did them.. the Pharisee's followed Him all the time 'tempting' Him to show them a sign ... proving He was God.. all the while He was doing them all over.. feeding the 5000 , raising the dead, casting out devils.. but they still persisted on 'tempting' Him.. If He would of done a sign and wonder for them.. they probably wouldn't of believed Him anyways.. why? for the hardness of their hearts....

    My heart breaks for those who 'willfully' run after signs and wonders.. they get caught up in all the frenzy and hype.... instead of getting to "KNOW" Him... Knowing the One who Laid down His life.... I've been there.. running after them.. I know what its like to get drawn off the narrow path.. to Lose sight of Him and put all my sight on the signs and wonders..

    I was chastised by the Lord for my actions.. It was not fun at the time.. but He did it out of Love.. If your a parent and you have a child that 'strays' from you.. or walks away from you or takes his/her eyes off of you..... you as a parent are going to do everything in your power to see that child return.. It's no different with God the Father.. or the Good Sheperd... He does what He has to do .

    Pure Love holds on to something it cherishes....
    When it strays.. it lovingly and gently leads it back...
    Why? Because there was an enormous Price paid...


    He wants YOU TO 'KNOW' HIM... Thats what He desires... Because He cherishes you...

    Thanks for your comments... they have been valuable...

    I'll close with some wisdom from Proverbs...

    Open rebuke is better than secret love.
    Proverbs 27:5

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