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Thread: The abomination of desolation, what is this

  1. #1
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    The abomination of desolation, what is this

    Mark 13:
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:

    So by 1 Tim, we can see the root!

    I believe abomination is the love of money in the "church".

    What do you believe, and why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WELL View Post
    Mark 13:
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:

    So by 1 Tim, we can see the root!

    I believe abomination is the love of money in the "church".

    What do you believe, and why?
    Is that how Daniel describes it?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by WELL View Post
    Mark 13:
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:

    So by 1 Tim, we can see the root!

    I believe abomination is the love of money in the "church".

    What do you believe, and why?
    It was the destruction of Jerusalem. That is why those who were in Judaea were to run to the mountains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    Is that how Daniel describes it?
    Well, I was hoping you would tell me please. How do you see it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WELL View Post
    Mark 13:
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:

    So by 1 Tim, we can see the root!

    I believe abomination is the love of money in the "church".

    What do you believe, and why?

    Uh, me don't think so.

    I'll give the note in one of my Bible's (ISR) Appendix - Explanatory notes:
    Abomination That Lays Waste

    We find this term in Dan. 9:27, Dan. 11:31 and Dan. 12:11. Then the Messiah, prophesying about the end-time in Mt. 24:15, reveals to us that we shall perceive the "Abomination that lays waste ... set up in the set-apart place," quoting from the Book of Dani'ĕl. This prophecy by Dani'ĕl was filled the first time during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, but the Messiah was here prophesying about the end-time. Who is the "Abomination that lays waste"? In 2 Macc. 6:2 (we do not regard Maccabees as part of Scripture, but it is an interesting historical record) we find this to be Zeus, or Baʽal Shamen as the Syriac version of 2 Macc. 6:2 renders it the great sky-deity or sun-deity! Note well: it is in itself an abomination, but it also lays waste. What is laid waste? The True Worship! We read many passages in Scripture about the laying waste of the True Worship.
    Blessings.
    "A text without context is a pretext."

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    Quote Originally Posted by WELL View Post
    Mark 13:
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:

    So by 1 Tim, we can see the root!

    I believe abomination is the love of money in the "church".

    What do you believe, and why?

    I just now saw this after posting in the other thread on the Euro.

    I think you are right on the money so to speak.



    It was the downfall of OT Israel in Christs day and even back when they built the golden calf in the wilderness and the churches end up the same way.

    IMPORTANT--
    ---where churches are not all Church, and the churches were/are established by the Church, but not all churches or the Sealed Church abominate. Rev.9:4 Rev.11:1-2

    Remember that the temple in Jerusalem, though established by God and built to His design, was overlaid with worldly glory and abominated through the WORSHIP of MONEY by Herod and approved of by many of the people especially by people of influence and that much of the priesthood was polluted and altered with Roman approval (the Beast of the time) and using Herod the Edomite as their king, a Roman apointee.



    Check out Ezekiel chapter 16.


    Merton.

  7. #7
    cwb Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by WELL View Post
    Mark 13:
    14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    1 Tim 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil:

    So by 1 Tim, we can see the root!

    I believe abomination is the love of money in the "church".

    What do you believe, and why?
    Alot of other versions of the bible translate I Tim 6:10 to say "the love of money is a root of all evil rather than the root of all evil. I am certainly no Greek scholar so I am not sure which translation is correct. When I looked up the Greek words which this verse was translated from it seems that the "a" translation is the correct one. Maybe someone who knows Greek better than me though can help out with that.

  8. #8
    theleast Guest
    Funny thing is I was getting ready to start a similair thread.

    I will be doing a wall of text post on this tonight, not something I typically like to do, but that is kind of the only way to get this point driven home.

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    Luke 21 suggests that the AOD is the roman armies that surrounded Them and caused them to be carried off into exile

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
    Uh, me don't think so.

    I'll give the note in one of my Bible's (ISR) Appendix - Explanatory notes:
    Abomination That Lays Waste

    We find this term in Dan. 9:27, Dan. 11:31 and Dan. 12:11. Then the Messiah, prophesying about the end-time in Mt. 24:15, reveals to us that we shall perceive the "Abomination that lays waste ... set up in the set-apart place," quoting from the Book of Dani'ĕl. This prophecy by Dani'ĕl was filled the first time during the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, but the Messiah was here prophesying about the end-time. Who is the "Abomination that lays waste"? In 2 Macc. 6:2 (we do not regard Maccabees as part of Scripture, but it is an interesting historical record) we find this to be Zeus, or Baʽal Shamen as the Syriac version of 2 Macc. 6:2 renders it – the great sky-deity or sun-deity! Note well: it is in itself an abomination, but it also lays waste. What is laid waste? The True Worship! We read many passages in Scripture about the laying waste of the True Worship.
    Blessings.
    This is interesting. I am wondering about the change that Jesus brought from the old into the new covenant. There was a different revelation. Matt 5, and Luke 6.

    And the old covenant explanation above does not take into account; the love of money being the root of all evil.

    Rev 17:

    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

    Rev 17 tells us of how the earth will be deluded into the love of the material, read the whole of 17 and 18 to get a fuller picture.

    This does cause the final desolation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwb View Post
    Alot of other versions of the bible translate I Tim 6:10 to say "the love of money is a root of all evil rather than the root of all evil. I am certainly no Greek scholar so I am not sure which translation is correct. When I looked up the Greek words which this verse was translated from it seems that the "a" translation is the correct one. Maybe someone who knows Greek better than me though can help out with that.
    There was no indefinite article ("a", and "an") in Koine Greek, and though there was a definite article ("the"), it works slightly different than English, but nonetheless, many times the English definite article "the" can be placed in an English Translation, and at other times, it would not sound good in a sentence in English.

    Anyway, to 1Timothy 6:10, the verse starts out as:
    ριζα (G4491) ("root"), so placing the indefinite article "a" is done due to the context, and of course, how the verse is rendered. OTOH, there are times when there is no Greek definite article and in English, the context would require that an English definite article, "the", should be "supplied" into the verse.

    Now I understand that in the Aramaic, the definite article is there:
    For the root of all evil is the love of money; and there are who have coveted it, and from the faith have erred, and have made themselves enter into many sorrows.
    It does not mean that "money" is evil, but the "love of" it is. Love for the Father is to be placed above first, so evidently the love of money must take away from that (i.e. they love money more than the Father).

    Blessings.
    "A text without context is a pretext."

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwb View Post
    Alot of other versions of the bible translate I Tim 6:10 to say "the love of money is a root of all evil rather than the root of all evil. I am certainly no Greek scholar so I am not sure which translation is correct. When I looked up the Greek words which this verse was translated from it seems that the "a" translation is the correct one. Maybe someone who knows Greek better than me though can help out with that.
    I'm not sure if this relates to the Jehovah's witnesses translating from John 1 " and the word became a god." which of course id a wrong translation, but Rev 17 and 18 seem to combine with 1 Ti1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

    2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

    3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

    6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

    7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

    8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

    10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

    11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

    12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

    13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

    14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

    15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

    16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

    17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

    18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

    19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

    20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

    21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

    22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

    23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

    24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
    m 6, implying a whole system or government built on the love of the material.

    Rev 18:

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    Quote Originally Posted by WELL View Post
    This is interesting. I am wondering about the change that Jesus brought from the old into the new covenant. There was a different revelation. Matt 5, and Luke 6.
    Not sure I follow you here - Yeshua's covenant was a blood covenant - as for the old, it was renewed (that is what the original language of the English states) - SOUPED UP - i.e. if you look at another with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery, and talked about murder with words, etc..

    And the old covenant explanation above does not take into account; the love of money being the root of all evil.
    Uh, it was referring to what is in Daniel, which referred to a covenant to be "confirmed" that was already, or would be in existence - not a Biblical Covenant - there are about 5 Biblical Covenants, though, I quite haven't got them down pat at this time, and can't remember how many are to go (to take affect) - at least one I guess.

    Rev 17:

    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

    Rev 17 tells us of how the earth will be deluded into the love of the material, read the whole of 17 and 18 to get a fuller picture.

    This does cause the final desolation.
    Oh, I have been with the Bible for nearly 4 decades and have read those chapters more than once.

    Blessings.
    Κλιφτον Ρη Ηοδζες
    δοΰλος Χριστός ησοΰς
    "A text without context is a pretext."

  14. #14
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    The Abomination of Desolation is the image Antiochus Epiphanes placed on the alter in the Temple at Jerusalem. This took place during the time of the Maccabees. The resulting war culminated in the inauguration of the Hasmonean Dynasty.

    Jesus refers to this historical event when he warns the people of Jerusalem to flee the city. Since this event took place within the previous 200 years, the educated citizens of Jerusalem would have been familiar with the account. Jesus is saying, "when you see that take place again, run for your life."

    This came true in 67 AD according to Josephus. As it turned out this time, the Jews themselves caused the Abomination of Desolation when they removed the official high priest and murdered him, replacing him with another fellow that, in turn, allowed the seditious men to use the temple as a base of operations.

    I believe this event was the signal Jesus meant.

  15. #15
    cwb Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
    There was no indefinite article ("a", and "an") in Koine Greek, and though there was a definite article ("the"), it works slightly different than English, but nonetheless, many times the English definite article "the" can be placed in an English Translation, and at other times, it would not sound good in a sentence in English.

    Anyway, to 1Timothy 6:10, the verse starts out as:
    ριζα (G4491) ("root"), so placing the indefinite article "a" is done due to the context, and of course, how the verse is rendered. OTOH, there are times when there is no Greek definite article and in English, the context would require that an English definite article, "the", should be "supplied" into the verse.

    Now I understand that in the Aramaic, the definite article is there:
    For the root of all evil is the love of money; and there are who have coveted it, and from the faith have erred, and have made themselves enter into many sorrows.
    It does not mean that "money" is evil, but the "love of" it is. Love for the Father is to be placed above first, so evidently the love of money must take away from that (i.e. they love money more than the Father).

    Blessings.
    Thanks for sharing that. One reason I thought "a" would have been a better translation is because it seems that there was evil even before there was money. The serpent and Adam and Eve did what they did before there was money. Even in the world we live in now, sometimes you see people do evil stuff and money is not even involved.

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