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Thread: The White Horse

  1. #16

    Good Stuff

    These are some great post. Very informative. I personally believe that the rider of the white horse in Rev. 6:2 is Jesus Christ. The reason He is riding the white horse is because the white horse represents the early church which He held the reins of. The question was asked "Did Jesus open the first seal and reveal Himself?". You will notice that the seals began to opened after the Lamb was slain. It seems plain to me that these seals began to be opened immediately after Jesus died, resurrected and ascended, not 2,000 years later. The book that was sealed was the plan of salvation. Jesus was the one who was able to open that book and look thereon. Even the Old Testament prophets that prophesied of the plan of salvation that was in the Old Covenant did not understand what they were prophesying of.

    1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

    1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

    Matthew 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

    2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    Jesus unloosed the 1st seal and the 1st beast that says "come and see" has the face of a Lion. This Lion is none other than the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Jesus Christ. As the 1st seal is looosed, we see the early church going forth victoriously with Jesus holding the reins as the head of the church. But then we see the color of the horse change in the 2nd seal to red. Red is the color of man. The name Adam means "red earth". This is why John said "I beheld another horse". As the spirit of man began to be more prevalent than the Spirit of God, the gospel began to be perverted. Notice what Paul says about false prophets entering in and trying to change the gospel in 2 Cor. 11.

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

    The beast that introduces the 2nd seal has the face of a calf which is a picture of sacrifice. As men began to creep into the early church, the Apostles and saints began to be martyred and persecuted. As the Apostles began to be killed, men began to become bolder about perverting the truth of the gospel and drawing away the disciples after themselves. Thus began the falling away of the church.

  2. #17
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    I believe that the white horse is the personnification of the Gospel, which incorporates the Chruch, the Gospel that the church carries, and the Spirit of the One who's Gospel it is. I do not believe that the First horseman is the person Jesus because Jesus is the one who opened the seal to have the white horse appear. THe Horse appeared from the broken seal, and not from the throneroom, where Jesus was at when the horse appeared.

    It simply does not make sense to have it any other way. I would agree about jesus being the white horse, but He opened the seal. Remember, Jesus is still 100% human as well as 100% God. He can not have Himself appear in front of Himself. He is incased in a body now, a human body, although Glorified, He is still limited to that of being in one place at a time. His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, has no such limitation, and thus has to be the one who represents Him on this earth while He is ruling from Heaven. Therefore, since Jesus is the one opening the seals, He can not be personally one of the things that propagate from the seals, sue to that limitation.

    It is my opinion that All that is related to Christ's kingdom here on earth todayt is what the white Horse symbolizes.

  3. #18
    The rider of the white horse is the antichrist, the devil is always an imposter, he will come as the saviour of the world, an imitator. He goes forth conquering. Notice the fruit of this person, wars, famines, pestilences, death etc, this is not Jesus Christ, this is the antichrist coming on the scene. The Lord Jesus is in Heaven opening seals at this time, He isn't appearing until after these things. Do you think Jesus will be on earth horse back riding and at the same time opening the other seals in Heaven? Doesn't make sense does it?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Door Keeper View Post
    The rider of the white horse is the antichrist, the devil is always an imposter, he will come as the saviour of the world, an imitator. He goes forth conquering. Notice the fruit of this person, wars, famines, pestilences, death etc, this is not Jesus Christ, this is the antichrist coming on the scene. The Lord Jesus is in Heaven opening seals at this time, He isn't appearing until after these things. Do you think Jesus will be on earth horse back riding and at the same time opening the other seals in Heaven? Doesn't make sense does it?
    Prove it. The color white is used many times in Revelation. None of those times does it refer to anything other than righteousness and holiness. Show me one instance when the color white was used to be deceptive?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Door Keeper View Post
    The rider of the white horse is the antichrist, the devil is always an imposter, he will come as the saviour of the world, an imitator. He goes forth conquering.
    But nothing in Revelation 6, nor anywhere in Revelation tells us the rider of this white horse is the antichrist, nor that this is the devil imposing as Christ.

    It simply states the white horse goes out to conquer; and if it is representative of the Gospel of Christ going out as it did in the first century; then conquering is a good thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Door Keeper View Post
    Notice the fruit of this person, wars, famines, pestilences, death etc, this is not Jesus Christ, this is the antichrist coming on the scene.
    Revelation 6 doesn't tell us those are the fruits of the white-horse.

    Those rather, are the conflict and resistence the world has to the outgoing of the gospel.

    Interpretting it in the manner you did, saying the fruits that follow the white horse are from the white horse, would be like saying that since the Earth was destroyed for wickedness following Noah going into the ark, then Noah must have been wicked, and caused all the wickedness.



    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Door Keeper View Post
    The Lord Jesus is in Heaven opening seals at this time, He isn't appearing until after these things. Do you think Jesus will be on earth horse back riding and at the same time opening the other seals in Heaven? Doesn't make sense does it?
    Yes, the Lord Jesus was in Heaven when the gospel started to go out, as personified in the white horse.

    Acts chapter 1 shows Jesus ascending into Heaven, and immediately after that in Acts chapter 2, the gospel begins to go out to all nations.

    All 4 of the horsemen are personifications; not literal horses with literal riders.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Door Keeper View Post
    The rider of the white horse is the antichrist, the devil is always an imposter, he will come as the saviour of the world, an imitator. He goes forth conquering. Notice the fruit of this person, wars, famines, pestilences, death etc, this is not Jesus Christ, this is the antichrist coming on the scene. The Lord Jesus is in Heaven opening seals at this time, He isn't appearing until after these things. Do you think Jesus will be on earth horse back riding and at the same time opening the other seals in Heaven? Doesn't make sense does it?

    so, by following your thinking, you are saying that God Almighty is the Anti Christ???

    " Notice the fruit of this person, wars, famines, pestilences, death etc"

    here is something for you to ponder:
    Ezekiel14:21 for this is what the Sovereighn Lord says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem MY four deadly judgments- sword and famine and wild beasts and plague- to kill its men and their animals.

    God Almighty is sending these judgments on a degenarate world

    Bennie

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    But nothing in Revelation 6, nor anywhere in Revelation tells us the rider of this white horse is the antichrist, nor that this is the devil imposing as Christ.

    It simply states the white horse goes out to conquer; and if it is representative of the Gospel of Christ going out as it did in the first century; then conquering is a good thing.

    Revelation 6 doesn't tell us those are the fruits of the white-horse.

    Those rather, are the conflict and resistence the world has to the outgoing of the gospel.

    Interpretting it in the manner you did, saying the fruits that follow the white horse are from the white horse, would be like saying that since the Earth was destroyed for wickedness following Noah going into the ark, then Noah must have been wicked, and caused all the wickedness.

    Yes, the Lord Jesus was in Heaven when the gospel started to go out, as personified in the white horse.

    Acts chapter 1 shows Jesus ascending into Heaven, and immediately after that in Acts chapter 2, the gospel begins to go out to all nations.

    All 4 of the horsemen are personifications; not literal horses with literal riders.
    If you examine the descriptions of the rider on the white horse of Rev. 6:2 you can see that this rider is not Jesus nor the Word.

    The Rider, the one who is emphasized here, has 4 notable characteristics:

    1. ) He had a bow. A bow cannot execute like a sword, it is most effective at long range. The description of Jesus in Revelation 19 describes Jesus with a sword covered in the blood of His enemies (Is. 63). If Jesus is covered in blood, it means He is close enough to His enemies while killing them (i.e. a sword instead of a bow).

    2.) A crown was given to him. This rider did not receive authority by his own merit. He could not have received this authority if it had not been apportioned to him. Jesus, called the Lamb in Revelation 5:7, comes and takes the scroll (authority) out of the hand of Him who sat on the throne (the Father). Jesus is not given something, He takes it because He is worthy 5:9 and He prevailed over everything that would keep Him from inheriting all things (cf 5:5, Col 1:20).

    3.) He went out conquering. He will be allowed to conquer. The same one who gave the rider authority has given him this authority for the purpose of conquering.

    4.) He went to conquer. His intent from the beginning was to conquer. It was in his heart.

    Examine these descriptions with Rev. 13 -

    Rev 13:4 So they did homage to the dragon who gave authority to the beast (Antichrist); and they did homage to the beast, saying, Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him (conquering)?
    Rev 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
    Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in Heaven.
    Rev 13:7 And it was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

    All that Antichrist has is given to him including his authority, throne, power, military etc. He cannot receive anything without it first being given to him.

    This rider of 6:2 (Antichrist) is meant to appear as a Savior/Conqueror type who, make note, appears on scene before the judgments all begin. Like the Antichrist, we know that the judgments do not begin until he appears. The white horse can't be the Gospel because it's the rider who is emphasized. Not the horse.
    From Azubah to Hephzibah.

  8. #23
    Hm, I do agree it strange that if the white horse represents Jesus or the Gospel the crown was given. In keeping with white only referencing righteousness nothing in Revelation seems to be given to Jesus. So why is this nameless rider on a white horse given a crown? I wonder if this possible contradiction of terms isn't similar to Pilot's and Jesus interaction in John 19:10-11 "Then Pilate said to Him, '...Do You not know that i have power to crucify You, and power to release You?' Jesus answered, 'You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above.'"
    Could the white horse speak of God's leadership throughout history; that He alone gives authority to rulers and kings?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormgurl View Post
    Could the white horse speak of God's leadership throughout history; that He alone gives authority to rulers and kings?
    Though He does do the latter, I don't know if we could boldly interpret the white horse as God's leadership. I think there are clear implications but not yet solid definitions. To label the white horse as the leadership of the Lord might create some problems interpreting the other horses and their various colorings.

    To me, the white horse speaks of the counterfeit of the white horse Jesus comes on in Revelation 19. Antichrist will be what man, in all his religions and delusions, is looking for.
    From Azubah to Hephzibah.

  10. #25
    Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

    7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth

    John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Phillipians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyfulparousia View Post
    The Rider, the one who is emphasized here, has 4 notable characteristics:

    1. ) He had a bow. A bow cannot execute like a sword, it is most effective at long range. The description of Jesus in Revelation 19 describes Jesus with a sword covered in the blood of His enemies (Is. 63). If Jesus is covered in blood, it means He is close enough to His enemies while killing them (i.e. a sword instead of a bow).
    like David Taylor said, the four horsemen are not literal, but symbols. Therefore, the symbols themselves are by what we are to just these four.

    For instance, what does the bow represent? IN antiquity, the bow held the very same meaning as the horn. It represented strength. The meaning of the bow is that the rider of the white horse was strong. Likened to the Gospel, which is strong enough to overcome an and all obsticles, both physical and spiritual.

    This is very important. Usually, the good guys are described as having bows, which David has been described as in the OT. The bad guys are described as having horns. Notice that Jesus is not described at all with horns, nor are the saints. Rather, the Beast, the Dragon, and the false prophet are all described with horns, representing evil power. This difference alone is enough to debunk the notion that the white horse is even remotely connected to evil.

    What the bow is used for is irrelevant in determining the meaning of symbols in prophetic literature, as is the main usage of horns.

    2.) A crown was given to him. This rider did not receive authority by his own merit. He could not have received this authority if it had not been apportioned to him. Jesus, called the Lamb in Revelation 5:7, comes and takes the scroll (authority) out of the hand of Him who sat on the throne (the Father). Jesus is not given something, He takes it because He is worthy 5:9 and He prevailed over everything that would keep Him from inheriting all things (cf 5:5, Col 1:20).
    WHere was the horseman when he was given a crown? Was he not in heaven? If this is so, then only the King of Heaven can give a crown, and no one else. Therefore, the crown, or authority that the white horse is given represents the power of the kingdom of Heaven, which the Gospel gives all of those who believe in it.

    3.) He went out conquering. He will be allowed to conquer. The same one who gave the rider authority has given him this authority for the purpose of conquering.

    4.) He went to conquer. His intent from the beginning was to conquer. It was in his heart.
    What happened at Penticost? Did the Gospel go out conquering and seeking to conquer more? It looks to me as though the Gospel is the clear winner here.

    Examine these descriptions with Rev. 13 -

    Rev 13:4 So they did homage to the dragon who gave authority to the beast (Antichrist); and they did homage to the beast, saying, Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him (conquering)?


    Now, this is a text-book definition of using scripture to prove other scripture does not work. What color was the beast in verse 1? Was he white? Did He have a bow, or did he have horns? Did e come conquering from the outset?

    Rev 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.


    Was the beast given a crown?

    Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in Heaven.
    Rev 13:7 And it was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.


    Who gave him that authority, and was he in heaven when he did it?


    All that Antichrist has is given to him including his authority, throne, power, military etc. He cannot receive anything without it first being given to him.

    This rider of 6:2 (Antichrist) is meant to appear as a Savior/Conqueror type who, make note, appears on scene before the judgments all begin. Like the Antichrist, we know that the judgments do not begin until he appears. The white horse can't be the Gospel because it's the rider who is emphasized. Not the horse.
    While there may be some similarities between what Satan does to the beast and the descriptions of the white horse, there are some VAST differences that separate the two.

    1. The event of Revelation 13 happens on earth, not in heaven.
    2. The Beast is not described as having a bow. Instead, he has horns, ten of them.
    3. He does not come conquering and seekiung to conquer, for he is first mentioned in chapter 11, BEFORE his advent.
    4. Last, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, the Beast, which you call the AnitChrist, is not described with the color white.

    Therefore, there is no evidence that shows that the white horse is anything other than the Gospel, and the personnification of all who have, hold, and spread it.

  12. #27
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    You guys know I just have to put my two cents in, but I believe, though the horses are symbolic, they describe a real reality. Thus, the first horse represents the AC, a wolf in sheep clothing. The color white, nor the horse, are the context, they are the prophectic symbols of a reality to come/be. They do not give the context and the context of all four horses is the wrath of the Lamb and what will be taking place on the earth because of His wrath upon those who reject Him.

    We know from other passages in the NT that those who refused the truth will accept the lie.




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    The 4 horseman are either ALL good or all evil..........it makes no sense for 1 to be good and the other evil.

    Will not the AC promote the gospel? Sure he will.........he claims to be the fullfillment thereof.

    Actually the four horseman are the four beasts....


    Mark

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The 4 horseman are either ALL good or all evil..........it makes no sense for 1 to be good and the other evil.

    Will not the AC promote the gospel? Sure he will.........he claims to be the fullfillment thereof.

    Actually the four horseman are the four beasts....


    Mark
    The four horseman are neither Good or Evil. They are signs. The Horsemen are symbols in and of themselves, and represent something that God is going to do. It is the interpretation of these horsemen that make them good or evil, which is entirely up to man alone, and not scripture. Hence you see the horsemen as evil or good, when I see them as signs of what God either has done, is doing, or will shortly do. In fact, all seven seals are all symbols and signs, which can not be interpreted at either Good or Evil.

    Again, all of these signs, all of the horsemen come from the scroll that is in Lord Jesus's hand. Now, please examine what you are saying here. You are saying that the horsemen are either all good or all evil, when all of them come from Lord Jesus. Is Jesus evil, that evil will sprout out of his hand? Is Jesus the one who gives the earth the Antichrist? Remember, that was the first sign that proceeded out of the scroll in Lord Jesus's hand. So if you are saying that the Antichrist is the first horseman, then you are saying that Christ produced him, and I believe that is a lie in an of itself.

    Moreover, the colors of the horsemen, all of them, are symbolic. The second one was red, which is the color of blood. It is only fitting that it would have a large sword and take peace from the earth. This is not a reality, it is a sign. This horseman is a symbol of the Lord allowing peace to be taken from the earth, and the sign of which is the increase of violence in places that were at one point deemed safe, like suburban areas or back-water towns.

    The last horseman is improperly described, but the Greek gets it right. The KJV says that the horse is pale, likening to death. But the Greek saythat the color of the horse was pale-green, likened to that of ghosts. Pale-green is the symbolic color of ghosts, or spiritual beings capable of posessing other beings. And so the color of the horse does matter, a great deal here.

    The only horse that can be considered as "Evil" is the last one, because the name of the horseman is Death, with Hell riding close by. Even so, I disagree that even this horse is evil, because it only describes the event of 1/4th of the planet being consumed by Death, where nothing grows and men and animals kill each other, as though they are posessed by demons. Again, this is a sign, and not a reality in and of itself.

    Seals 5-7 are all signs as well, so why aren't the first four? Because they are personnified as horses? Moreover, how can you call these horses the same four horses as the chariots that rode around in Ezekiel? They aren't even colored the same, and the red one didn't even exist. Moreover, the green one was bay-colored, and not ghost green, and therefore the chariots of then and the horsemen of Revelation are not the same, and therefore should not be viewed as such. Again, this is where using scripture to define other scripture fails.

    Just like the seven trumpets are signs of warning that the Lord is about to return, so are the seals which warn us that the time is drawing closer to the trumpets, when after they are blown, the Lord shall return.

    Lastly, the four "horsemen" are not the four beast, for the four beasts were present in Heaven, long before the seals were broken. Check out chapter 4 to see them present before the Lord even grabs a hold of the scroll.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by third hero View Post
    The four horseman are neither Good or Evil. They are signs. The Horsemen are symbols in and of themselves, and represent something that God is going to do.
    I agree, they are symbols to illustrate to us what God is doing. And Jesus is opening the scroll as He is the only one worthy, the only one worthy to determine and deliver judgments. To me, all four horses are symbols of that judgment, the context is the One who is worthy opening the seals on the scroll of end times judgments that will befall those upon the earth who have rejected Him.

    The white horse and its rider reflect the false one that the peoples of the earth will follow, just as is stated elsewhere in scripture, they refused the Truth and are now accepting the Lie.




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