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Thread: The White Horse

  1. #61
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    OT Symbols

    Since thunder precedes the opening of the seals here is one passage from of all places Hannah's prayer:

    (1 Sam 2:10 KJV) The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

    And from the signs sent upon Pharoah & Egypt we have this one about what it accomplishes when it is over:

    (Exo 9:28-29 KJV) Entreat the LORD (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer. {29} And Moses said unto him, As soon as I am gone out of the city, I will spread abroad my hands unto the LORD; and the thunder shall cease, neither shall there be any more hail; that thou mayest know how that the earth is the Lord's.

    The first mention of a bow [H7198] is seen after the flood when it is given as a sign to Noah of the Lord's covenant with the earth to never destroy it by water again. A bow is a weapon of war which this rainbow symbolizes - what can this be saying except that the Lord will not destroy the earth like this again but will fight for it? (Gen 9)

    Also Ezekiel's vision of the Lord compares the glory of the Lord to this bow:

    (Ezek 1:28 KJV) As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

    And since an arrow goes without saying as what a bow shoots:

    (Zec 9:14-15 KJV) And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. {15} The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar...

    In Zec 1 & 6 we are introduced to the 4 horses as being spirits sent by the Lord into the earth. First 3 are sent to bring back a report (the black one is not sent for this), then all 4 are sent to work judgment.

    Ezekiel also speaks according to these horses & riders we see in Rev 6:

    (Ezek 14:21 KJV) For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

    All of these elements are depicted for us here in Rev as we are introduced to the heavenly glory of the Lamb - in whose faces of the cherubim He is depicted as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the calf of the burnt offering, the Messiah - Son of man, and as a flying eagle (Lord of Hosts).

    When a cloud is sent over the earth, His bow appears - the sign of His covenant promise; thus His coming in the clouds of judgment reveals He is doing it.

    John is given a vision into the heavenly realm where he sees angels as horses & winds sent from heaven to accomplish the word of the Lord's prophecy in the earth. The prophetic language in the past that was used to describe such things before is utilized here in the same manner.

    (Zec 10:1-6 KJV) Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field. {2} For the idols have spoken vanity, and the diviners have seen a lie, and have told false dreams; they comfort in vain: therefore they went their way as a flock, they were troubled, because there was no shepherd. {3} Mine anger was kindled against the shepherds, and I punished the goats: for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle. {4} Out of him came forth the corner, out of him the nail, out of him the battle bow, out of him every oppressor together. {5} And they shall be as mighty men, which tread down their enemies in the mire of the streets in the battle: and they shall fight, because the LORD is with them, and the riders on horses shall be confounded. {6} And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.

    The rider on the white horse is not a man, it is the angel of the Lord of Hosts accomplishing this victory thru these other spiritual beings who do the Lord's will. While it is metaphorically spoken to us, these are also literal realities from the heavenly point of view, which the opening of these seals now gives us understanding of what prophecy foretold.

    (Mat 16:15-19 KJV) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? {16} And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. {17} And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. {18} And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. {19} And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
    Robin

    Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
    And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
    Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
    Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

  2. #62
    Let the four sore judgments part be only for the time of the rider of the 4th seal (ac).
    Let the horses - be the four spirits of the heavens.

    white
    the spirit of wisdom and with understanding one gets a crown

    rider of the first seal
    gets a crown

    started a nation
    the nation of the north country / Iraq

    in righteousness judges and makes war - Rev. 19 - riding on white

    Judges 5 - riding on white - judge righteously


    The black horses in Zechariah 6 went to the north country and the white went right behind them.

    so in Iraq
    are white and black horses
    waiting for riders

    Only Iraq - the Euphrates River land can mount the riders.

  3. #63
    Reading Deuteronomy chapter 1 can show how Israel too began with rulers that were to be
    wise
    and understanding,

    and they were to possess the land -
    go in and possess the land
    start the nation.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie View Post
    mark,

    you can not merge chapter 8 with chapter 7. it is two seperate and destint prophecys. if you merge them, change the order that dan 7 was given in, then every body can chop and change as they wish. God gave them in the order they are for a reason. If we can not Trust His authority to tell us in what order stuff goes, who on this rock that we call earth can we trust to tell us.

    bennie
    Both chapters are describing the same events.

    Chapter 8

    Verses 1-7 - Describe Media and Persia and the battle between Grecia. So right there you have not a seperate prophecy but detail of these kingdoms mentioned in chapter 2.

    Verse 8- We see the third kingdom (Grecia) broken into fours. This where I am saying these fours are the 4 beasts which are mentioned in chapter 7.

    Verse 9-27 - Basically speaks of this little horn which arises out of these four. The perfectly parrallels chapter 7.


    So what we have are two chapters giving us additional detail in different formats. The only thing chapter 7 omits is the struggle between Media Persia and Grecia.

    Now i do believe that the horn power in daniel 8 is not antiochus epiphanes. I do believe that is Satan himself.
    Who then are the four which come out of the third kingdom?

    I ask the same question a few years ago and came up with that it must be the four beasts. The only way to get around this is to say they are four generals and so on.... When one goes to answer this question then the answer is clear becuase it cannot be the four kingdoms in chapter 2.

    1. Babylon
    2. Media Persia
    3. Grecia
    4. Fourth kingdom

    The four which come out of the third kigdom

    1. ?
    2. ?
    3. ?
    4. ?


    Mark

  5. #65

    Re: The White Horse

    Boy, how can the conclusion be the opposite of what it says?

    The first seal revealed a rider of a white horse, he carried a bow and a crown was on his head. He fought many battle and won victories. [this is the coming conqueror, a king who conquers]
    The second seal revealed a red horse and rider who brings war.
    The third seal revealed a black horse and rider with scales. [he brings famine and starvation]
    The fourth seal revealed a pale horse who brings death.

    So, a conqueror will bring war, famine and death. It's just that easy.

    Leave the AC out of it. The are millions of AC.

  6. #66
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    Re: The White Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Boy, how can the conclusion be the opposite of what it says?

    The first seal revealed a rider of a white horse, he carried a bow and a crown was on his head. He fought many battle and won victories. [this is the coming conqueror, a king who conquers]
    The second seal revealed a red horse and rider who brings war.
    The third seal revealed a black horse and rider with scales. [he brings famine and starvation]
    The fourth seal revealed a pale horse who brings death.

    So, a conqueror will bring war, famine and death. It's just that easy.

    Leave the AC out of it. The are millions of AC.
    The six seals match up quite nicely with Matthew chapter 24 and describes the events leading up to 70AD

  7. #67
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    Re: The White Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    The six seals match up quite nicely with Matthew chapter 24 and describes the events leading up to 70AD
    Really? You do realize the first four seals represent 4 kings. Four kings which come up together and each rule 1/4 of the land.

    The four beasts in God's kingdom represent the four seals to John. Why do you think? The four beasts introduce the opposing four beasts hence we know the four seals represent four beasts..


    1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
    2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
    3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
    4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
    5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
    6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
    7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    These four in Rev 6 are the same four in Dan 7.

    17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

    Rev 13 is a picture of these four at a time with the 4th beast of Dan 7 has control.

    3 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (4) rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (3), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (2), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (1): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.



    So when one studies scripture and NOT history the first four seals do not align with 70AD. And there is much more evidence to support.

  8. #68
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    Re: The White Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Really? You do realize the first four seals represent 4 kings. Four kings which come up together and each rule 1/4 of the land.

    The four beasts in God's kingdom represent the four seals to John. Why do you think? The four beasts introduce the opposing four beasts hence we know the four seals represent four beasts..


    1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
    2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
    3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
    4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
    5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
    6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
    7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    These four in Rev 6 are the same four in Dan 7.

    17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

    Rev 13 is a picture of these four at a time with the 4th beast of Dan 7 has control.

    3 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (4) rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (3), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (2), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (1): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.



    So when one studies scripture and NOT history the first four seals do not align with 70AD. And there is much more evidence to support.
    Check this chart below

    http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5...00/Compare.gif

  9. #69

    Re: The White Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    The six seals match up quite nicely with Matthew chapter 24 and describes the events leading up to 70AD
    I agree with the first part of your statement, that the seals match up with the beginning of birth pangs of Matthew 24.

    I disagree with the second part of your statement (saying these occurred in the events surrounding 70ad) because of the following:

    --Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 are "the beginning of birth pangs" (in all three passages, though only "named" as such in the first two of these passages and only "described" in the third of these passages);

    --in the third of these 3 passages (Lk21:8-11; SAME "beginning of birth pangs"), verse 12 goes on to say, "But BEFORE ALL THESE [BEFORE all these 'beginning of birth pangs']" the following section of things MUST OCCUR FIRST (and in vv.12-24a describes "the events surrounding 70ad," with v.24b following on from there); this means that "the events surrounding 70ad" MUST come "BEFORE" the beginning of birth pangs that were just listed [and incld'g v.24's "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations"];

    --in Matthew 24, that portion of His Olivet Discourse STARTS OFF with "the beginning of birth pangs" (which are the equivalent of Lk21:8-11; and recall, these come AFTER "the events surrounding 70ad" [incld'g "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations"]) and after STARTING with "the beginning of birth pangs" (which are the equivalent of the "seals") goes on to tell what FOLLOWS THOSE (including the verses 15-21 re: "then shall be GREAT tribulation" i.e. what kicks off the mid-point of the 7-yrs);

    --this means that the "SEE-then-FLEE" of Luke 21:12-24a's section re: "the events surrounding 70ad" is NOT THE SAME "SEE-then-FLEE" of Matthew 24 (which is the "far-future" one, that FOLLOWS "the beginning of birth pangs" rather than PRECEDES "the beginning of birth pangs" as in the Lk21:12-24a section!) Completely distinct!

    --Revelation 1:1 says, "...things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (comp 1:1 with the wording in both 1:19c and 4:1 each re: the FUTURE aspects of the Book, and one can see that from 4:1 [and the Seals of chpt 6] ALL that follows that point "fits" into the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period [the 7-yrs], RATHER THAN something that unfolds upon the earth over the course of some 2000 years, as we could say of 1:19b [/chpts 2-3; "the things WHICH ARE"] instead [which indeed is the longer period of time, some 2000 yrs approx.])

    --these SEQUENCE issues are consistent with the same, in other passages (relating)

    --I conclude that the SEALS (i.e. "the beginning of birth pangs") do not START until the BEGINNING of the future 7-yr period; and that ALL of Matthew 24 takes place FOLLOWING our Rapture (all of it taking place WITHIN the future trib years [7]); and that the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 (Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'"; 2Th2:9a,8a,3b [/Dan9:27a(26)--"for ONE WEEK"])]" is, of course, the FIRST of those [i.e. SEAL #1], with many more "birth pangs [plural]" to follow on from there, also in the trib years]


    When we pay close attention to the SEQUENCE issues of the various Olivet Discourse passages, it becomes clear that "the 70ad section" is not the equivalent of the "far-future section," though a number of things are very similar-sounding!

  10. #70
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    Re: The White Horse

    The White Horse, to me, is one of the angels of God's wrath. The Kingdom of God draws near while kingdoms are defeated on the earth. Best I can do for now....

    It is significant to me that these 4 horsemen are operating through the 4 living creatures which I believe are angels. Events on earth prepare the way for the coming of the Kingdom of God. As Man tries to establish his own kingdom on the earth, they are destroyed by these angels of judgment.

    As the angel prevented Adam and Eve from re-entering the Garden and partaking of the tree of life, so these angels prevent mankind from obtaining their own Kingdom, and have to face the consequences of sin. The Kingdom of God will come independent of Man, and will arrive at the return of Christ.

    Every empire of Man, and every kingdom of Man, has come and gone. They have all been defeated by these angels, as these empires and kingdoms have fallen into corruption and have incurred the wrath of God. Even the best kingdoms ultimately fail, and pass away. The only Kingdom that will never pass away is the Kingdom of God that will come at the return of Christ.

  11. #71

    Re: The White Horse

    The four horsemen of the apocalypse is a symbolic representation of a foreign conqueror who will bring God's wrath in the form of war, famine and death upon ancient Israel for its rejection of Christ.
    Again, quite simple.

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    Re: The White Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    The four horsemen of the apocalypse is a symbolic representation of a foreign conqueror who will bring God's wrath in the form of war, famine and death upon ancient Israel for its rejection of Christ.
    Again, quite simple.
    They are Gods judgement we first see them in Zechariah chapter 6

  13. #73
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    Re: The White Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    They are Gods judgement we first see them in Zechariah chapter 6
    God may allow these judgements but they are not from God.

    The four in Zech are NOT the same four here.

    The four in Rev 6 are evil kings evidenced by the fourth seal. Hell follows.

    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

    The ones in Zech come from above.

    5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.


    The four in Zech 6 and Rev 6 are not the same. Those in Rev 6 are evil and are part of the government of Satan. A future Hell on earth.

  14. #74
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    Re: The White Horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    The four horsemen of the apocalypse is a symbolic representation of a foreign conqueror who will bring God's wrath in the form of war, famine and death upon ancient Israel for its rejection of Christ.
    Again, quite simple.
    What do you mean by a "foreign" conqueror?

    God's wrath is indicated by the 7 vials not of these four horseman. This is wrath from Satan.

    And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

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    Re: The White Horse

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    The White Horse, to me, is one of the angels of God's wrath.
    God's wrath is indicated by the 7 vials not these four horseman.

    It is significant to me that these 4 horsemen are operating through the 4 living creatures which I believe are angels. Events on earth prepare the way for the coming of the Kingdom of God. As Man tries to establish his own kingdom on the earth, they are destroyed by these angels of judgment.
    "operating through'?. Rather these four horseman are four kings in Satan's government whereas the four living creatures are four king's in God's government. They are opposing forces.

    Yes they are angelic (spirit) outside this realm but men on earth.

    Satan's government is a counterfeit of God's.

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