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Thread: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan View Post
    If there is not to be a Tribulation in my lifetime then I am teaching my children the right things anyways.

    As the the Words Of Christ say:

    MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

    ...And this:

    LK 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth.

    ...So, I believe that I know how to welcome mobs, God Willing.
    Sorry but I didn't understand your post..
    Last edited by quiet dove; Oct 8th 2008 at 04:59 PM. Reason: quoted material
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  2. #17
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    #4)Do to the fact that we ARE the generation of Jesus Christ return also means 1 other thing...
    Mat 24:36But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


    That the Antichrist is here already!He(satan) has to be allowed by God to do the things that was written so long ago,for everything to take place as was said in the bible!So the question remains....If the Antichrist is already here,then who is it?
    1Jo 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
    -Jeremiah 6:16

    Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

  3. #18
    ok so the Holy Spirit speaking to our hearts is just out of the question???

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by diffangle View Post
    Mat 24:36But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    1Jo 2:18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    First of all, it is true that nobody knew the day or the hour at the time Jesus made that statement, but it isn't necessarily still true. For one thing, Jesus now knows when it will be, even though He specifically said He didn't at the time of the Olivet Discourse. But notice also He said that nobody "knows", present tense. He didn't say nobody would ever know until the moment it happens. So that verse doesn't really apply here.

    As for the "antichrists" argument, yes it is true that, technically, the one man sitting in the temple at the mid point of the final seven years is not the "antichrist", speaking from a strictly Biblical sense. That does not negate the accuracy of the sequence of events however.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
    ok so the Holy Spirit speaking to our hearts is just out of the question???
    That depends on whether what you are "hearing" conforms to the Scriptures.
    ----------------------------------------------
    When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

  6. #21
    Personally,

    (1) I don't believe that our Lord will return in my lifetime (if I live a normal lifespan), but I do believe it's highly possible that He will; and

    (2) I don't believe that our Lord will return within the next 7-20 years, but I think it's quite possible that He will.

    But IMO the Bible says something must happen first:

    "And one of the seven angels who had the seven vials came and talked with me, saying to me, Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on many waters," (Rev.17: 1)

    "... and the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked. And they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Rev.17: 16)

    "... And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all." (Rev.18: 21)

    "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters...

    ... And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication...

    ... And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand," (Rev.14: 6-9)

    So the whore is the enemy of the ten kings - but so is the Lamb:

    "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." (Rev.17: 12-14)

    When I think these things are beginning to be fulfilled, then and only then will I know that the next and final item on the Bible's prohetic menu before the return of Christ, is about to take place:

    "The ten kings" are said to hand their power and authority over to "teh beast ascending from the botomless pit" (Rev.17: , 12-13)

    And "the beast from the bottomless pit" is said to make war against "the two witnesses" of Jesus, overcome them and kill them (Rev.11: 7-19)

    This (if one takes Revelation 11 up as it's written) is the final thing to take place before the resurrection and removal of the saints into heaven, and the sounding of the seventh trumpet:

    "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." (Rev.11: 15)

    Where/when/how/who I have no idea of - and I don't believe it will occur in my lifetime or that it will occur within the next 7-20 years, but I believe it's highly possible that it will.

    ananias
    "But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers.

    And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.

    Nor be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, even Christ."
    (Mat.23: 8-10)

    AND

    "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another.

    By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another."
    (Joh.13: 34-35)

  7. #22
    Partaker of Christ Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
    You have to take the entire Olivet Discourse into consideration, including Matthew 24/25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. When you put all three together and consider that Jesus was answering three different questions (listed below), then the comment about "this generation" makes perfect sense. None of the three versions of the Olivet Discourse is comprehensive. They have to be combined together, using their common points to determine Jesus' meaning.

    Jesus was discussing three things the Apostles asked Him about:

    1. When will the destruction of the temple happen?

    2. What will be the sign of your coming?

    3. What will be the sign of the end of the age?

    The answer is spread out among all three accounts of the Olivet Discourse. The most extensive account of the destruction of the temple is given in Luke 21. However, there is a statement in Matthew 24 that pertains to that destruction - "This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

    It is very obvious that the generation that heard Jesus' words is long gone. So whatever He was talking about is something that has to have already happened. What did He discuss in the Olivet Discourse that has already happened? The destruction of the temple. It's not hard to figure out when you're not trying to find some dark, hidden meaning that was never intended. Jesus was giving the most straight-forward answer He could give. He wanted His disciples to understand Him. So for us to attempt to take His straight-forward answer and make it into something so confusing that thousands of people are debating about what it "means" is to rob ourselves of having a crystal-clear understanding of exactly what He said.
    Hi again LL!

    Yes I fully understand it was a three part question, or three questions.


    Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
    Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
    Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
    Mark 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
    Mark 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
    Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
    Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
    Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
    Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

    If 'this generation' were those in AD70, then the day and the hour is now known.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
    If 'this generation' were those in AD70, then the day and the hour is now known.
    I don't remember if it's come up in this thread or not, but I have actually been arguing for a good while now that the "day and hour" not being known does not necessarily apply anymore. Certainly, at the time Jesus made that statement in the Olivet Discourse it was true at that moment, but for certain Jesus knows the day and hour now, so that statement is already at least partially no longer true. And at no time did Jesus ever say that no man "would know" the day or hour. He was only speaking in the present tense of the moment at which they were discussing it.
    ----------------------------------------------
    When the plain sense of Scripture make sense, seek no other sense.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Literalist-Luke View Post
    I don't remember if it's come up in this thread or not, but I have actually been arguing for a good while now that the "day and hour" not being known does not necessarily apply anymore. Certainly, at the time Jesus made that statement in the Olivet Discourse it was true at that moment, but for certain Jesus knows the day and hour now, so that statement is already at least partially no longer true. And at no time did Jesus ever say that no man "would know" the day or hour. He was only speaking in the present tense of the moment at which they were discussing it.
    Many Christians don't want to believe this, but "the day or the hour that no man knoweth" is translated from a Hebrew expression referring to the 48-hour period between the last day of the Biblical month Elul and the start of the Day of Trumpets (Lev.23: 24), whch is commonly known today as Rosh Hashanah.

    This day could not begin until the sighting of the first sliver of the new moon in Jerusalem - which is why Rosh Hashanah began on October 2nd this year, instead of Sept 30th - the new moon was only sighted on 02 Oct. Two watchmen would climb to the highest point of the temple and watch for the appearance of the new moon - one would watch east, and the other west.

    The Day of Trumpets is traditionally the day God judges the world, and the days following it are known as "the days of awe" and the day is linked with verses such as Joel 2: 31:

    "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah." (Joe.2: 31).

    The Day of Trumpets is also traditionally the day of the resurrection of the dead, and the beginning of the 7-day marriage consummation period between God and His bride.

    "Take it or leave it!", "believe it, or not!"

    ananias
    "But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers.

    And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.

    Nor be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, even Christ."
    (Mat.23: 8-10)

    AND

    "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another.

    By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another."
    (Joh.13: 34-35)

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgiven Alaskan View Post
    ok so the Holy Spirit speaking to our hearts is just out of the question???
    The problem is no one is saying the Holy Spirit is telling them anything...they are saying they just feel this way in their heart...

    Now if everyone suddenly starts saying the Holy Spirit is telling them the end is near then we need to take notice of that..but still the thing is I don't see any scripture saying the Holy Spirit will give us advanced warning the tribulation is about to start, or that Christ is about to return. More then likely if people start doing this you will see a major conflict...those saying the Holy Spirit is saying the trib is about to start and others saying the Holy Spirit says it isn't. What is happening there is one of these groups is not really hearing the Holy Spirit but another spirit all together and that is not good. I see this going on all over the net over other subjects...people claiming the Holy Spirit said one thing and others saying the opposite..that is not good at all...and pretty much leads back to where we started...

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  11. #26
    Partaker of Christ Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    The problem is no one is saying the Holy Spirit is telling them anything...they are saying they just feel this way in their heart...

    Now if everyone suddenly starts saying the Holy Spirit is telling them the end is near then we need to take notice of that..but still the thing is I don't see any scripture saying the Holy Spirit will give us advanced warning the tribulation is about to start, or that Christ is about to return. More then likely if people start doing this you will see a major conflict...those saying the Holy Spirit is saying the trib is about to start and others saying the Holy Spirit says it isn't. What is happening there is one of these groups is not really hearing the Holy Spirit but another spirit all together and that is not good. I see this going on all over the net over other subjects...people claiming the Holy Spirit said one thing and others saying the opposite..that is not good at all...and pretty much leads back to where we started...

    God bless
    Would that then mean, those of the early church were expressing 'feelings'?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Partaker of Christ View Post
    Would that then mean, those of the early church were expressing 'feelings'?


    Actually the heart can mean feelings or spirit or mind...depending on the verse..for reference: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia on Heart

    But right now I can't think of any verses where anyone in the early churches used the expression...'I feel in my heart something is about to take place'...if you have an example you can post it. Of course at times the Holy Spirit told people such as Paul for example...things that were going to happen to him. (actually I think it says Jesus Christ told him directly). But as far as I can recall Paul never said he 'felt something would happen to him' in a certain town or whatnot. He was usually directly told what was going to happen to him. This is much, much different then what we are seeing on the board lately with people saying they 'feel' the time is near...

    I hope that made sense.

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananias View Post
    Many Christians don't want to believe this, but "the day or the hour that no man knoweth" is translated from a Hebrew expression referring to the 48-hour period between the last day of the Biblical month Elul and the start of the Day of Trumpets (Lev.23: 24), whch is commonly known today as Rosh Hashanah.

    This day could not begin until the sighting of the first sliver of the new moon in Jerusalem - which is why Rosh Hashanah began on October 2nd this year, instead of Sept 30th - the new moon was only sighted on 02 Oct. Two watchmen would climb to the highest point of the temple and watch for the appearance of the new moon - one would watch east, and the other west.

    The Day of Trumpets is traditionally the day God judges the world, and the days following it are known as "the days of awe" and the day is linked with verses such as Joel 2: 31:

    "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah." (Joe.2: 31).

    The Day of Trumpets is also traditionally the day of the resurrection of the dead, and the beginning of the 7-day marriage consummation period between God and His bride.

    "Take it or leave it!", "believe it, or not!"

    ananias
    That was very interesting! Thanks for posting it...

    I think this past New Years for the Jews with everything going on, people were kind of waiting on edge...

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananias View Post
    Many Christians don't want to believe this, but "the day or the hour that no man knoweth" is translated from a Hebrew expression referring to the 48-hour period between the last day of the Biblical month Elul and the start of the Day of Trumpets (Lev.23: 24), whch is commonly known today as Rosh Hashanah.

    This day could not begin until the sighting of the first sliver of the new moon in Jerusalem - which is why Rosh Hashanah began on October 2nd this year, instead of Sept 30th - the new moon was only sighted on 02 Oct. Two watchmen would climb to the highest point of the temple and watch for the appearance of the new moon - one would watch east, and the other west.

    The Day of Trumpets is traditionally the day God judges the world, and the days following it are known as "the days of awe" and the day is linked with verses such as Joel 2: 31:

    "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah." (Joe.2: 31).

    The Day of Trumpets is also traditionally the day of the resurrection of the dead, and the beginning of the 7-day marriage consummation period between God and His bride.

    "Take it or leave it!", "believe it, or not!"

    ananias
    Huh, that throws a whole new, very interesting slant on it. This could actually have some fairly important implications. Thanks for sharing.
    ----------------------------------------------
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  15. #30
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    With the world financial markets in disarray, I'd say we are closer than we think. Last year, I thought we were 80-100 years away but the signs are more prevalent with each passing day.

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