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Thread: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

  1. #151
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    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Consider the following (as to the TIMING of that [the 12 on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel]):


    Matthew 19:28 -

    28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit down upon His throne of glory, you having followed Me, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel.


    Matthew 25:31-34 - [the "WHEN" of that ^ is here...(time-wise)] -

    31 And when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit upon His throne of glory. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And indeed He will set the sheep on His right hand, and the goats on His left.
    34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, those being blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom having been prepared for you FROM [G575 apo (not "BEFORE [pro]" as is used of OTHERS elsewhere!] the foundation of the world."


    [see the listing (I've posted before) of about 10 or so "BLESSED" ^ references that fit into this particular time-slot, of His Second Coming to the earth (not our Rapture); the time-slot that parallels both Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 AND Isa24:21-22(23) with its FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words which is followed by a TIME-PERIOD when thereafter the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words will then be carried out (i.e. the LATER GWTj)]


    I believe the [FUTURE] 144,000 are "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT harvest" (associated with the "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" per Lev23:17 (Rev14:4), not to mention the Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 passage regarding the "WHEAT [into My barn--i.e. the earthly MK age]" in "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" on the EARTH upon His "RETURN" there]);

    by contrast, have ye not read (said to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," the "ONE BODY") "ye are unleavened"




    [...and "WE shall judge angels" 1Cor6:3(14)...]
    Sorry I am not quite following with the way you presented it here could you please list in point form what you believe or are saying?

  2. #152

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    I had forgotten to add to my previous post, which had said,

    [Matthew 19:28 parallel (time-wise) to...]

    Matthew 25:31-34 - [the "WHEN" of that ^ is here...(time-wise)] -

    31 And when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit upon His throne of glory. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And indeed He will set the sheep on His right hand, and the goats on His left.
    34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, those being blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom having been prepared for you FROM [G575 apo (not "BEFORE [pro]" as is used of OTHERS elsewhere!] the foundation of the world."


    The word "King" is only used TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are "future"... ex. "Which IN HIS TIMES He SHALL SHEW [/openly manifest; future], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" 1Tim6:15 (see also Rev19:16; and Rev17:14 in reverse order there)

  3. #153

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Sorry I am not quite following with the way you presented it here could you please list in point form what you believe or are saying?
    Maybe tomorrow night... it's getting late here, so I gotta close down for the night.

  4. #154
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    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Maybe tomorrow night... it's getting late here, so I gotta close down for the night.
    Me to thanks

    Sorry but I focus on your underlined and bold capital letters and then forget the line of thought LOL

  5. #155

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    What the Israelites in the desert ate, was manna and quails. Psalms 78:23-29
    I do not think that angels, being spiritual beings have to eat at all. That they can eat is shown how the three men ate Abrahams fatted calf. Genesis 18:8

    Manna is a edible food, consisting of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen: pure carbohydrate. It was a by product of the Comet Typhon as it passed close by the earth in 1493 BC. Typhon caused many of the plagues that Moses pronounced upon Egypt at that time.

    We Christians WILL inherit the Kingdom, we pray for it every day in the Lord's prayer. We will reign with Jesus on earth. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:21
    Yes, Christians have and will inherit the Kingdom, and it will be as spirit, as Paul said. And yes, Jesus reigns in his Kingdom on earth, just as it says. You cannot see it or perceive it because it is spirit, and you are now flesh. The spirit realm eats what spirit eats. When Jesus instructed his disciples to pray he included "Your Kingdom come" because it hadn't yet. He said it almost 2 thousand years ago.
    Consider this; if the Kingdom is not yet established on earth, then there hasn't been a second resurrection, and if there hasn't been a second resurrection, then the dead still sleep in the grave. And if the dead still sleep in the grave then they cannot now enter the Kingdom, because it doesn't yet exist.. according to you.

  6. #156

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    What the Israelites in the desert ate, was manna and quails. Psalms 78:23-29
    I do not think that angels, being spiritual beings have to eat at all. That they can eat is shown how the three men ate Abrahams fatted calf. Genesis 18:8

    Manna is a edible food, consisting of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen: pure carbohydrate. It was a by product of the Comet Typhon as it passed close by the earth in 1493 BC. Typhon caused many of the plagues that Moses pronounced upon Egypt at that time.

    We Christians WILL inherit the Kingdom, we pray for it every day in the Lord's prayer. We will reign with Jesus on earth. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:21
    I'm not suggesting that a close pass of a comet, or the impact of a meteor in ancient time could not cause havoc, but the theory behind Typhon is shaky at best.
    I believe it comes from Immanuel Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision published in 1950. He quotes ancient text by Pliny, "A terrible comet was seen by the people of Ethiopia and Egypt, to which Typhon, the king of that period, gave his name; it had a fiery appearance and was twisted like a coil, and it was very grim to behold: it was not really a star so much as what might be called a ball of fire."
    Velikovsky spent a lot of time trying to associate supposed ancient celestial events with biblical catastrophes. It has been the subject of serous study from time to time but is widely rejected as nonsense. I cannot find any record of the King Typhon of which Pliny spoke.

  7. #157

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I agree with your position regarding the Kingdom of Heaven. I love the teachings of Jesus in (Matthew 4:17), "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

    Jesus went on to decribe the works of John the Baptist in (Matthew 11:12), "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

    Indeed it did suffer violence, Satan would have loved to have destroyed Jesus. We can see this through the multiple attempts to take Jesus's life before his time.

    But Jesus taught his disciples that the kingdom of heaven was already at hand. We can read in (Luke 16:16) "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

    We know that the Kingdom of Heaven is where God the Father abides, and Jesus being the 1st did asend to his throne in that kingdom when he ascended into heaven.

    Indeed, other men did press into it, beginning at the day of Pentecost, as well as others who were added to the church through the Holy spirit.

    Now, we look forward to the return of that Kingdom called new Jerusalem when Jesus brings the kingdom down from Heaven at his 2nd Coming.
    Yes, in those days the Kingdom of heaven was at hand, or soon to come, or near.

    But, Satan has never been a threat to God as God cannot be in danger or threatened. Take into consideration what Jesus said to Peter in Luke 22:31, "And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat."

    Satan asked whom? Yes, Satan needed God's permission to tempt the disciples. Something that needs permission from God, and gets it, is hardly a threat to God. Satan may have been a threat to the disciples, but was never such to God. Satan performed the job he was to perform.

    Look at Romans 9:17-18, "In Scripture, God says to Pharaoh, 'I had a special reason for making you king. I decided to use you to show my power. I wanted my name to become known everywhere on earth. 18 So God does what he wants to do. He shows mercy to one person and makes another stubborn."

    We see that God made Pharaoh stubborn and prolong the suffering of the Israelites in order to magnify His image at their deliverance.

    Yes, Jesus did ascend to his throne in Heaven. The chosen elite were gathered up to his heavenly temple to serve him there for a thousand years. The dead were raised at the end of that millennium and judged. Jesus did establish his Kingdom on earth. Since then, and only since then, when we pass this test we can enter that Kingdom.

  8. #158
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    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Yes, Christians have and will inherit the Kingdom, and it will be as spirit, as Paul said. And yes, Jesus reigns in his Kingdom on earth, just as it says. You cannot see it or perceive it because it is spirit, and you are now flesh. The spirit realm eats what spirit eats. When Jesus instructed his disciples to pray he included "Your Kingdom come" because it hadn't yet. He said it almost 2 thousand years ago.
    Consider this; if the Kingdom is not yet established on earth, then there hasn't been a second resurrection, and if there hasn't been a second resurrection, then the dead still sleep in the grave. And if the dead still sleep in the grave then they cannot now enter the Kingdom, because it doesn't yet exist.. according to you.
    I stand by what I have posted.
    The second resurrection does not happen until after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15 Excepting for the martyrs killed during the Great Trib; Rev 20:4

    The Kingdom is not yet apparent on earth. We Christians are the living representative's of it at present. Soon Jesus will Return and it will become a reality. there is no need for anyone to transform into a spiritual being.

    Your rejection of the natural explanation of what happened during the Exodus, is a usual response. God acting to make things happen like that, is unacceptable to the scientific world.

  9. #159

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Yes, in those days the Kingdom of heaven was at hand, or soon to come, or near.
    But, Satan has never been a threat to God as God cannot be in danger or threatened. Take into consideration what […]
    God had an even greater plan that was heretofore [/theretofore] "hid in God" and as of that point [at the time of His crucifixion, etc] yet undisclosed.

    Read again 1 Corinthians 2 -

    7 But we speak in a mystery, the wisdom of God having been hidden, which God foreordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood. For if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it has been written:
    “What no eye has seen,
    and no ear has heard,
    and has not entered into heart of man,
    what God has prepared for those loving Him.”
    10 For God has revealed it to us through the Spirit. [this, we find revealed and disclosed via what we call the NT epistles, following His death, resurrection, and exaltation]

  10. #160

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Me to thanks

    Sorry but I focus on your underlined and bold capital letters and then forget the line of thought LOL
    Understood.

    It'll probably have to be quite late tonight, as I have yet further work to accomplish in the next several hours.

    Thanks for your patience.

  11. #161

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Yes, in those days the Kingdom of heaven was at hand, or soon to come, or near.

    But, Satan has never been a threat to God as God cannot be in danger or threatened. Take into consideration what Jesus said to Peter in Luke 22:31, "And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat."
    I agree with you, Satan has never been a threat to God. Satan can never enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The only way to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven is, to come through the door. This door to the Kingdom of Heaven is Christ. This door was opened upon the death/resurrection of Jesus.

    The threat that Satan has, and the violence that the Kingdom of Heaven has suffered is from the hand of Satan in his attempt to draw man away from serving God. Satan tried to draw Jesus away when he was tempted in the wilderness. Examples such as this, is how the Kingdom of heaven suffers violence.

    And yes, as you described Satan's desire to sift Peter as wheat. More attempts and attacks and violence on the kingdom of Heaven. Then consider the suffering of John the Baptist for his word and ministry. This was violence against the Kingdom of Heaven.

    The door to the Kingdom of Heaven was opened by the blood of our savior, and Jesus defeated the working of Satan in his death on the cross. Since then the Kingdom of Heaven is with men and men do press into it by being born again and having their salvation sealed in Christ.

    One day, the Lord is going to return with this Kingdom and bring it down to earth. The bible describes this as New Jerusalem.

  12. #162

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    God had an even greater plan that was heretofore [/theretofore] "hid in God" and as of that point [at the time of His crucifixion, etc] yet undisclosed.

    Read again 1 Corinthians 2 -

    7 But we speak in a mystery, the wisdom of God having been hidden, which God foreordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood. For if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it has been written:
    “What no eye has seen,
    and no ear has heard,
    and has not entered into heart of man,
    what God has prepared for those loving Him.”
    10 For God has revealed it to us through the Spirit. [this, we find revealed and disclosed via what we call the NT epistles, following His death, resurrection, and exaltation]
    Again, a problem with pronouns. "Revealed it to us" (meaning to him and his contemporaries), and "this age" (meaning his age) then we 2 thousand years later can learn about those times. "So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:7

  13. #163

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I agree with you, Satan has never been a threat to God. Satan can never enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The only way to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven is, to come through the door. This door to the Kingdom of Heaven is Christ. This door was opened upon the death/resurrection of Jesus.

    The threat that Satan has, and the violence that the Kingdom of Heaven has suffered is from the hand of Satan in his attempt to draw man away from serving God. Satan tried to draw Jesus away when he was tempted in the wilderness. Examples such as this, is how the Kingdom of heaven suffers violence.

    And yes, as you described Satan's desire to sift Peter as wheat. More attempts and attacks and violence on the kingdom of Heaven. Then consider the suffering of John the Baptist for his word and ministry. This was violence against the Kingdom of Heaven.

    The door to the Kingdom of Heaven was opened by the blood of our savior, and Jesus defeated the working of Satan in his death on the cross. Since then the Kingdom of Heaven is with men and men do press into it by being born again and having their salvation sealed in Christ.

    One day, the Lord is going to return with this Kingdom and bring it down to earth. The bible describes this as New Jerusalem.
    Yes, but because you can't see it does not mean it's not already there.

  14. #164

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I stand by what I have posted.
    The second resurrection does not happen until after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15 Excepting for the martyrs killed during the Great Trib; Rev 20:4

    The Kingdom is not yet apparent on earth. We Christians are the living representative's of it at present. Soon Jesus will Return and it will become a reality. there is no need for anyone to transform into a spiritual being.

    Your rejection of the natural explanation of what happened during the Exodus, is a usual response. God acting to make things happen like that, is unacceptable to the scientific world.
    Three points: First, you are correct, the second resurrection did occur after the millennium. That millennium is described in Rev 20:4-6, where is says in part, "Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded...(note they were souls)...They all came to life again and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years...(note it does not say they came to life as flesh)...This is the first resurrection... (the resurrection of those who died in the tribulation-the 144,000 chosen who were harvested to heaven where they served Christ in His temple for a thousand years).
    Second, when you said, "there is no need for anyone to transform into a spiritual being" you are contradicting Paul when he said, and I re-quote, "What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever. But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will be transformed." So Paul considers the spirit version of us to be alive.
    Note he says "we", meaning him and his contemporaries.
    You said that I reject the "natural explanation" of distant events, then say that God's actions are unacceptable to the scientific world.. but science is the examination of the natural world, what you are describing is the unnatural world. In conclusion, you said "The Kingdom is not yet apparent on earth" that is correct, it is not apparent to any of us because we are not spirit.

  15. #165

    Re: What if the end isn't near? What if your heart on this is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Again, a problem with pronouns. "Revealed it to us" (meaning to him and his contemporaries),
    Pretty much what I said, regarding this portion ^


    and "this age" (meaning his age)
    touto vs. toutou ("this" vs. "OF this")

    [that is, "OF" the one (age) being spoken of--"OF" the particular one (age) being referred to in the context--the one (age) wherein they had "crucified" Him]

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/2-8.htm


    ...not, "in this present age [singular]" which Paul says is the "NOW" (of his writings/epistles).


    There will be "ages [plural]" to come (Eph2:7 [from Paul's point-in-time/perspective]), also ...(I can think of three distinct ones from Scripture: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" [which will cover the (future) trib yrs]; "the age [singular] to come" [which Jesus' disciples correctly understood to be referring to what we now/commonly call the (future, earthly) "MK age"], and "the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" [what we call "eternity/eternal state/forever"].)


    then we 2 thousand years later can learn about those times.
    If we understand correctly what is being conveyed, yes.


    "So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:7

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