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Thread: The angel in Revelation 1:1

  1. #16
    I hope that the answer of the O.P. is not going to be that the Angel (messenger) is actually Jesus. There are many problems held with that emergingly popular belief.

  2. #17
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    Go to post # 8 on the first page for an explanation. The angel is of redeemed mankind and a fellow servant. As John bowed to the angel giving him the Revelation, the angel replies:

    Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

    Thanks

  3. #18
    Hm. Before, I was somewhat doubtful as to the angel (messenger) being a man - but now I think you raise a good point to be addressed: why would an angel (heavenly being) claim that they are a servant in the "testimony of Jesus", when the gospel does not pertain to the heavenly host?

    But, the 'angel' says "I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren". Why not "our brethren" if he really is a part of mankind? So, it is still probably a member of the heavenly host that we are seeing, not an already-redeemed man: even the "servant ... to the testimony of Jesus" can apply to the heavenly host, since they are servants of Jesus, which by definition means all creatures, both man and angel, who serve Christ are "servants ... to the testimony of Jesus".

    I think the 'angel' being an actual angel and not a man holds up more.

  4. #19
    The first thing that came to me is that it is Christ. This is the "Revelation of Jesus Christ, that He gave to His servant John."

    And I thought of the "angel" that Jacob wrestled with, who indeed was the Lord.
    Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held it's ground.
    ********************************************
    MAY WE IN EVIL'S HOUR, TRUTH'S SWORD WITH BOLDNESS WIELD

  5. #20
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    Again the word "Angel" simply means messenger, and when this angel said he was our brethren, and of the prophets there is only one way to become that, and that is by the blood of the Lamb. The angels we normally think of are created by God; we are born of God.

  6. #21
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    Quoting TexasBeliever - I thought of the "angel" that Jacob wrestled with, who indeed was the Lord.

    Response- Good point. If you get into a study of the different appearances of Christ, He is the image of God and it is Him we see in dealings with man in most cases - thanks

  7. #22
    Except there's one problem with what you're saying:

    The angeldid not say he was a "brother" to John. He said he was a fellow servant with "you and your brethren". The angel is making himself distinct from the "brethren" by calling them John's brethren, not his own.

    If I told you that I was a "fellow servant" with "you and your family", I'm clearly making myself distinct from your family. The angel in the Revelation does this same thing that, while he is acknowledging both he and John are Christ's servants, the messenger is separating himself by calling the "brethren" John's brethren. Meaning, the "brethren" of John are not the "brethren" of the angel.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Except there's one problem with what you're saying:

    The angeldid not say he was a "brother" to John. He said he was a fellow servant with "you and your brethren". The angel is making himself distinct from the "brethren" by calling them John's brethren, not his own.

    If I told you that I was a "fellow servant" with "you and your family", I'm clearly making myself distinct from your family. The angel in the Revelation does this same thing that, while he is acknowledging both he and John are Christ's servants, the messenger is separating himself by calling the "brethren" John's brethren. Meaning, the "brethren" of John are not the "brethren" of the angel.


    Rev 19:10 And2532 I fell4098 at1715 his848 feet4228 to worship4352 him.846 And2532 he said3004 unto me,3427 See3708thoudoit not:3361 I am1510 thy4675 fellow servant,4889 and2532 of thy4675 brethren80 that have2192 the3588 testimony3141 of Jesus:2424 worship4352 God:2316 for1063 the3588 testimony3141 of Jesus2424 is the3588 spirit4151 of prophecy.4394
    "I am- of thy brethren"

  9. #24
    Hm. It seems that it depends on which translations we're using. Here's 19:10 in various translations. I tried to group translations that were related, or rooted in other translations.

    NIV I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus.
    NIRV I am God's servant, just like other believers who hold firmly to what Jesus has taught.

    NIVUK I am a fellow- servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus.

    TNIV I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to Jesus' testimony.
    NLT I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers and sisters who testify about their faith in Jesus.

    KJV I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
    NKJV I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus.

    KJ21 I am thy fellow servant and one of thy brethren, who hold to the testimony of Jesus.
    NET I am only a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony about Jesus.

    ESV I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus.

    CEV I am a servant, just like you and everyone else who tells about Jesus.

    NCV I am a servant like you and your brothers and sisters who have the message of Jesus.

    ASV I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus:
    NASB I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus;

    Amplified I am [only] another servant with you and your brethren who have [accepted and hold] the testimony borne by Jesus.
    YLT fellow servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren, those having the testimony of Jesus;

    Darby I am thy fellow-bondman, and [the fellow-bondman] of thy brethren who have the testimony of Jesus.

    HCSB I am a fellow slave with you and your brothers who have the testimony about Jesus.

    WYC I am a servant with thee [And I fell down before his feet, for to worship him. And he said to me, See, that thou do not; I am thine even-servant], and of thy brethren, having the witnessing of Jesus;

    Worldwide English I am only a servant like you and like your brothers who tell about Jesus.

    And others. I don't want to throw in too many, then the post would go on forever.

  10. #25
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    Dear markedward, that was an endeavor of love and labor. Thank you. Did that influence your opinion as to who the angel is? From your earlier replies you seemingly did not believe he was our brethren.

    With that said, how does Revelation 22:9 fit your commitment to that since he claims to be of thy brethren the prophets, and them which keep the sayings of this book?

  11. #26
    I must say, it seems a very compelling point. Some versions seem ambiguous in their translations, a few seem to translate the text as the angel saying he's separate from "you and your brethren", while most do seem to translate the text as the angel saying he's part of "you and your brethren".

  12. #27
    mdo757 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Even though we see beings of higher elevation than man in both the OT and the NT? It's a bold claim to say angels (the heavenly host) are "pagan" when they are right there in the Bible.
    I said the word "angel" is not correctly translated. The correct translation is "messenger." Angels are part of the Pagan religions.

  13. #28
    mdo757 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Hm. Before, I was somewhat doubtful as to the angel (messenger) being a man - but now I think you raise a good point to be addressed: why would an angel (heavenly being) claim that they are a servant in the "testimony of Jesus", when the gospel does not pertain to the heavenly host?

    But, the 'angel' says "I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren". Why not "our brethren" if he really is a part of mankind? So, it is still probably a member of the heavenly host that we are seeing, not an already-redeemed man: even the "servant ... to the testimony of Jesus" can apply to the heavenly host, since they are servants of Jesus, which by definition means all creatures, both man and angel, who serve Christ are "servants ... to the testimony of Jesus".

    I think the 'angel' being an actual angel and not a man holds up more.
    A "Messenger" can be a person from the Kingdom of God or a person here on earth.

  14. #29
    I'm fully aware that malak and angelos mean "messenger" and that they can and do often refer to humanly messengers.

    But to claim that "angels" as a whole are pagan and that all "messengers" (malak and angelos) are human beings is simply wrong. Unless, of course, you're planning on discrediting most of the Bible, since heavenly beings (i.e., not human) are seen as early as Genesis. So unless you're claiming the Bible is full of lies, or unless you plan on heavy distortion of the text, the Bible does plainly and clearly show a belief of heavenly messengers that are entirely distinct from earthly messengers.

  15. #30

    Re: The angel in Revelation 1:1

    I find the angel's claim in Revelation 1 to be interesting (citing more of the chapter for context, but noting the bolded):


    12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

    17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

    19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[e] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
    While I agree with what has been posted previously in this thread (that points out the angel is not Jesus), the bolded seems contradictory to this. Would a mere angel make these claims?

    Also note that the angel does NOT correct John for worshiping him at this point.

    (I stumbled upon this message board when Googling who the angel in Revelation 1 is because I am currently reading Revelation.)

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