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Thread: Pagan Holiday?

  1. #1

    Pagan Holiday?

    I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this but Im gonna give it a shot. I had a customer come in just now and when I asked her if she was ready for Christmas and she stated "I do not celebrate" I am pretty sure she is a believer. I had to inquire. She said Christmas is a pagan holiday along with Easter and some others. I have heard this before from a lot of non believers too. Can anyone elaborate on the subject for me? Maybe next time I will be better prepared to deal with this. I really need some Christian insight and advise for the next time I am faced with a conversation like this.

  2. #2
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    She is right.

    .......................

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessiejane View Post
    I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this but Im gonna give it a shot. I had a customer come in just now and when I asked her if she was ready for Christmas and she stated "I do not celebrate" I am pretty sure she is a believer. I had to inquire. She said Christmas is a pagan holiday along with Easter and some others. I have heard this before from a lot of non believers too. Can anyone elaborate on the subject for me? Maybe next time I will be better prepared to deal with this. I really need some Christian insight and advise for the next time I am faced with a conversation like this.
    Next time someone says that to you just tell them

    "be blessed, and that you celebrate the life of Christ everyday, so these days are no different"
    It takes love to embrace those ones who are weak, and strength to endure the weakness, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessiejane View Post
    I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this but Im gonna give it a shot. I had a customer come in just now and when I asked her if she was ready for Christmas and she stated "I do not celebrate" I am pretty sure she is a believer. I had to inquire. She said Christmas is a pagan holiday along with Easter and some others. I have heard this before from a lot of non believers too. Can anyone elaborate on the subject for me? Maybe next time I will be better prepared to deal with this. I really need some Christian insight and advise for the next time I am faced with a conversation like this.
    We don't know when Jesus was born but the church put Christ Mas on Dec. 25th which used to be a pagan holiday, to STAMP out the pagan holiday.
    http://www.equip.org/free/CP9001.htm

    IS CHRISTMAS CHRISTIAN?



    Santa Claus. Christmas trees. Exchanging gifts with people you really donít care about or even know. Office parties which involve drinking and immorality. Is Christmas really Christian or pagan?

    The best arguments against Christmas are the pagan myths and practices that have attached themselves like so many barnacles to a ship. But just as you donít abandon a ship simply because itís got some barnacles on it, you donít need to abandon Christmas because non-Christians abuse it.

    The Bible neither commands nor condemns Christmas. Nor is there any biblical principle violated by the celebration of Christís birthday. Scripture clearly teaches that anything is permitted as long as it does not violate biblical principles, and as long as it is done in faith, with love, and in a manner that edifies (Rom. 13:10; 14:4-5, 23; 1 Cor. 6:12; 10:23; Col. 2:20-22).

    Often we are told that celebrating Christís birthday on December 25th is very wrong, for two reasons. The first is that Christ was probably not even born on December 25th. Thatís probably true, but so what? We donít know on what day Jesus Christ was actually born, but what does it really matter? What matters is that we are commemorating the birth of the Savior of the world.

    The second objection is more weighty ó when Christmas was originally instituted, December 25th was a pagan festival which commemorated the birthday of a false god. While this is a historical fact, what is often overlooked by the church is its intent in choosing December 25th in the first place. The church was not Christianizing a pagan festival, but was establishing the celebration of the birth of Christ as a rival celebration. Today the world has all but forgotten about the pagan gods of Greece and Rome, but at least a billion people on planet earth today consider themselves to be followers of Jesus Christ.

    Well, over the next few days Iím going to be discussing what Christians should think of such traditional aspects of Christmas as Santa Claus and Christmas trees. But remember, there is nothing wrong with celebrating the birth of the Savior of the world, I think itís great. On Christmas, thatís the CRI perspective. Iím Hank Hanegraaff.


    For another reference: Jesus was not a sun god

    This video has to do with not just Christmas but atheist saying the whole life of Christ is based on pagan gods...this is to refute their claims.

    When it comes down to it...who you honor on Dec 25th and everyday is what really matters...

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessiejane View Post
    I have heard this before from a lot of non believers too. Can anyone elaborate on the subject for me?
    Pope Gregory sent St. Augustine of Canterbury in the 6th century A.D. to England to evangelize the Pagans and draw the Christians who were already there back under the authority of the Roman Catholic church. The English king Ethelbert was a Pagan married to a woman who had converted to Christianity. For this reason he was open to allowing Augustine to come in to seek to convert the Pagans. One of the problems they had with the Pagans was the fact that they loved their old religion and were unwilling to turn from it, even though they were open-minded about the Catholic religion. By way of compromise Gregory instructed Augustine to consecrate the Pagan rituals and temples to "Christianize" them. They adapted the Pagan feasts and deities, merging them with Catholic Saints (Compare 1 Thes 1:9). This was very successful and many Pagans were converted to Catholicism. Meanwhile, they were not quite so successful with the small group of Christians in the area who were not willing to compromise with Paganism or submit to the Papal authority.

    Most of our major American holiday customs come from that part of the world but the merging of Pagan customs into Christianity goes back to the Roman Emperor Constantine. To unify his army, he declared December 25th, the date of the birth of his deity Mithras, a sun god, to be the date of the birth of Christ.

    That's just a little but enough to get you started. I would encourage you to do some research on the topic so that you can be as well-informed as possible.

    This was not an issue for many years but more recently, it has become well-known and it is important that each of us finds a way to respond in a way that we feel God would lead us.
    Love In Christ,
    Tanya







  6. #6
    We don't know when Jesus was born but the church put Christ Mas on Dec. 25th which used to be a pagan holiday, to STAMP out the pagan holiday.
    It is true that the bible doesn't give us an exact date for Christ birthday but we can estimate when he was born this way:

    The Bible says:

    There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
    (Luke 1:5)


    The course of Abiyah is found in here;

    Now these are the divisions of the sons of Aaron. The sons of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar. But Nadab and Abihu died before their father, and had no children: therefore Eleazar and Ithamar executed the priest's office. And David distributed them, both Zadok of the sons of Eleazar, and Ahimelech of the sons of Ithamar, according to their offices in their service. And there were more chief men found of the sons of Eleazar than of the sons of Ithamar; and thus were they divided. Among the sons of Eleazar there were sixteen chief men of the house of their fathers, and eight among the sons of Ithamar according to the house of their fathers. Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for the governors of the sanctuary, and governors of the house of God, were of the sons of Eleazar, and of the sons of Ithamar. And Shemaiah the son of Nethaneel the scribe, one of the Levites, wrote them before the king, and the princes, and Zadok the priest, and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, and before the chief of the fathers of the priests and Levites: one principal household being taken for Eleazar, and one taken for Ithamar. Now the first lot came forth to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah, The third to Harim, the fourth to Seorim, The fifth to Malchijah, the sixth to Mijamin, The seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abijah, (1 Chronicles 24:1-10)

    There were 24 courses total. Each course was served for weeks out of year and then at Yom Kippur all courses served at the same time.

    Abijah was the 8th course, which means the Angel appeared to Zachariah at 9 weeks after the 1st Sabbath in the month of Aviv/Nisan which is the month of the Passover. This means it was around the festival of Weeks (Pentacost) when the angel appeared to Him.

    We know that at the end of his course, Zachariah went home and Elizabeth conceived right after he got home. (Luke 1:24) This means that Elizabeth conceived during the month that would correspond to late May/early June (Hebrew months overlap ours).

    Mary conceives six months later in Kislev (our December) Nine months later in Jesus is born in the Fall, around late September during the festival Sukkot.

    These are approximations due to the fact that each month is 30 days on the Jewish calendar, and you have to account for leap years every 4th 7th and 11th years.

    This makes the most sense to me.

  7. #7
    If a person celebrates Christmas in order to celebrate Christ's birth... it's not pagan.

    If a person celebrates Easter in order to celebrate Christ's resurrection... it's not pagan.

    They're celebrating the one and true God. A tree is a tree, they're not worshipping it. Chocolate eggs are candy, they're not worshipping them.

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    The Romans of the time not only celebrated their Saturnalia festival at the close of December, but they also thought that December 25 marked the date of the winter solstice (instead of December 21), when they observed the pagan feast of Sol Invictus, the Unconquerable Sun, which was just in the act of turning about to aim northward once again.

    While this is indeed a historical fact, what is frequently overlooked is the reason the early Christian church chose December 25th as their day of celebration. The purpose was not to Christianize a time of pagan revelry, but to establish a rival celebration. As such, Christmas was designed as a spiritually edifying holiday (holy day) on which to proclaim the supremacy of the Son of God over the superstitions concerning such gods as Saturn, the god of agriculture and Sol Invictus, the unconquerable sun god.

    While the world has all but forgotten the Greco-Roman gods of antiquity, they are annually reminded that two thousand years ago Christ, the hope of humanity, invaded time and space. But as Christians we perceive an even greater reality. Each year as we celebrate the First Coming of Christ we are simultaneously reminded of the Second Coming in which the old order of things will pass away and Christ our Lord will put all things right.

    So, should we celebrate Christmas on December 25th? The answer is a resounding yes we should, we’ve taken a pagan festival and we have made Christ the prince of that day.(C&P'd)

    Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
    Last edited by Gulah Papyrus; Dec 6th 2008 at 07:43 AM.
    As thy days, so shall thy strength be - Deuteronomy 33:25

  9. #9
    I don't have much to add other than that everyone else has already explained this pretty well for you and I feel the same way. It doesn't matter what the world thinks (and most of the world, if asked, would say it's a Christian holiday anyway) about the day or how others view it or treat it, what matters is what it means to you. If you are celebrating Christ's birth then it is in no way, shape, or form a pagan holiday for you and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GitRDunn View Post
    I don't have much to add other than that everyone else has already explained this pretty well for you and I feel the same way. It doesn't matter what the world thinks (and most of the world, if asked, would say it's a Christian holiday anyway) about the day or how others view it or treat it, what matters is what it means to you. If you are celebrating Christ's birth then it is in no way, shape, or form a pagan holiday for you and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
    What would you say the scriptural argument is for celebrating Christ's birth? Meaning, where would I go in the Bible to determine that Jesus Christ wants His birth to be celebrated? Where in the Bible was this tradition taught?

    "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." - 2 Thess 2:15

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    So, should we celebrate Christmas on December 25th? The answer is a resounding yes we should, we’ve taken a pagan festival and we have made Christ the prince of that day.(C&P'd)
    He says here not to worship Him with the practices/way the pagans worship their gods...

    Deut 12

    29 When YHWH thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;

    30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

    31 Thou shalt not do so unto YHWH thy God: for every abomination to YHWH, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods;
    Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
    -Jeremiah 6:16

    Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

  12. #12
    I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter or any other festival, because I was a practicing Pagan and know the roots, even in the Christianised Westernised versions. It's not a place I want to go, the bloated secular greed is far more obvious than anything else at the spiritual roots, but equally I will not judge my brothers and sisters who wish to do so. I will follow my own conscience - I'm not interested in conforming to our culture with trees and sending cards and whatnot - but I will not impose my choices on others, nor look down on them if they choose differently to me. I'm willing to concede I may be the one with the weaker faith in this area because of my past Pagan experiences, nor are others causing me to stumble with this.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus_1611 View Post
    She is right.

    .......................
    That's not entirely honest. Sure, they coincide with certain solstice celebrations but that doesn't make that day pagan no matter what you celebrate on that day.

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    Most people, both Christian and NON-Christian, have no idea that the holiday we celebrate as Christmas had pagan roots. To them, they are either celebrating the birth of the King or they are celebrating the indulgence if their consumerism.

    Christians are the ones who keep bringing up the "pagan root" thing. Most Christians celebrate Christmas as a joy-filled time. Why is it that we just can't let that happen without telling people they are "wrong"? Good golly, Miz Molly - does Christmas within families edify or tear down? Does Christmas celebrations within churches or church families bring shame on or to the Lord?

    I don't worship a tree - I worship the King and I put up a tree as a way of saying, "Happy Birthday". God sees hearts and intents, not the outward conformity to rules and regs. For that, I am grateful - eternally.
    V
    I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
    - Mahatma Gandhi




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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhayes View Post
    Most people, both Christian and NON-Christian, have no idea that the holiday we celebrate as Christmas had pagan roots. To them, they are either celebrating the birth of the King or they are celebrating the indulgence if their consumerism.

    Christians are the ones who keep bringing up the "pagan root" thing. Most Christians celebrate Christmas as a joy-filled time. Why is it that we just can't let that happen without telling people they are "wrong"? Good golly, Miz Molly -
    Little Richard is wrong too

    does Christmas within families edify or tear down? Does Christmas celebrations within churches or church families bring shame on or to the Lord?

    I don't worship a tree - I worship the King and I put up a tree as a way of saying, "Happy Birthday". God sees hearts and intents, not the outward conformity to rules and regs. For that, I am grateful - eternally.
    V

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