Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Jesus 1st coming/2nd coming??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    614

    Jesus 1st coming/2nd coming??

    There were scholars back then who studied the word and awaited the arrival of Christ but most missed it until he rose again. What did they misunderstand?

    I think we have to keep that in mind while studying the end times because we probably have it wrong as well. I believe that they understood the Bible more than we do because the language and imagery was current to them.

  2. #2
    Good point. I was thinking somewhat along those lines lately too. In John 6, after Jesus fed the five thousand, he withdrew from the crowd sensing that they would try to make him king by force. People had incorrect views about the first coming of the Messiah even back then. They saw a political ruler instead of the sacrificial Lamb of God (Isaiah 53). Their assumptions kept them from seeing the truth.

    Has our human nature changed in that time to the point that any of us are immune to being blinded to some degree by our own assumptions? Do we add anything to the Scripture because we assume it's there?

    The further from our assumptions we get, the closer to the truth we might get. I've heard it said in this forum that we need to use Scripture to interpret Scripture. I could not agree more.

    Acts 17:10-11
    "The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so."

    ServantoftheKing

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,801
    There were scholars back then who studied the word and awaited the arrival of Christ but most missed it until he rose again. What did they misunderstand?
    According to the Dan 9 prophecy about Messiahs first arrival, the people were expecting something to happen.
    They thought that John the Baptist might be the one, but he pointed out that it was Jesus.
    They didnt believe anyway, cause they expected Messiah to reign in a political earthly way. Even his disciples expected it on occasions.

    I think we have to keep that in mind while studying the end times because we probably have it wrong as well. I believe that they understood the Bible more than we do because the language and imagery was current to them.
    Its my ambition to not get it wrong---just give me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
    We have the gift of the Spirit poured out, so if anyone is going to understand, we are the ones well equipped.
    Most looking for the first coming, misunderstood a lot, even the disciples didnt know what was going on 90% of the time.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe King View Post
    I think we have to keep that in mind while studying the end times because we probably have it wrong as well. I believe that they understood the Bible more than we do because the language and imagery was current to them.
    This is an excellent thing that all people should keep in mind when studying Scripture: if we get stuck with our modern way of thinking, we simply can't properly interpret "the language and imagery" of Scripture. I'll provide one example:

    A number of "prophecy experts" interpret the locusts of Revelation 9 as being helicopters. Here's a quote from a book that does as such:

    So [John] used symbols drawn from his 1st century phenomena that "looked like" these marvels of science. Using a mixed composite of things from the 1st century, he strove to represent what he saw.

    With that in mind, let's see if we can find the passage's meaning. The vehicle's overall shape looked to John like a "locust." The general outer shape of a helicopter is similar to that of a locust.

    The phrase "horses prepared for battle" probably means "the attack helicopters" were heavily armored. John had seen Romans drape armor over their horses to protect them from arrows, lances and swords.

    At this point John seems to switch to what he saw inside the machine. The phrase "something like crowns of gold" most likely describes the elaborate helmets worn by helicopter pilots. And "their faces resembled human faces..."-as John looked at the front of the helicopter, the face of the pilot appeared through the front windscreen. The appearance of something that looked like a woman's hair could describe the whirling propeller that looked like flimsy hair. Remember, John had never seen a large instrument spinning so fast that it couldn't be seen clearly. The term "teeth" probably describes the weaponry projecting from the "chopper"-there is a monster six-barrell cannon suspended from the nose of most attack helicopters today. The "sound of their wings was like many horses and chariots rushing to battle"-those of us who have heard the thunderous sound of many military helicopters flying overhead can relate to this description.
    Or, in short, the author is claiming that John used first-century knowledge to describe a twenty-first-century helicopter.

    In all of this, the author doesn't provide a single point of Scripture to support that this is the case. The above description is completely speculative, and the author doesn't appear to think it's appropriate to examine Scripture first. The author is more concerned with using his newspapers to decipher the Revelation, rather than taking into account the rest of the Old Testament and New Testament, and John's culture.

    For example, the author seems to be entirely oblivious of the book of Joel, in which that prophet describes locusts as rushing across the land toward Jerusalem. I would say that using the book of Joel is a far better place than today's newpapers to start "deciphering" Revelation 9's locusts. So which makes more sense? John, of the Jewish culture, writing a book of prophecies that deal with the God of the Jews, using the Jewish Scriptures (such as Joel) as influence, so that his contemporaries would understand that the locusts probably refer to invading armies... or the above author's attempts at claiming that the locusts are really helicopters, using speculative guesswork rather than a Scriptural precedent?

    Taking into account how the ancient Jews (and Gentiles) would have interpreted Scriptural imagery is, I think, much more important than simply guessing or using a newspaper for a guide.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    614
    Great example markedward! There are too many reaches IMHO.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,611
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe King View Post
    There were scholars back then who studied the word and awaited the arrival of Christ but most missed it until he rose again.

    What did they misunderstand?
    Joe,
    Because there hearts were wicked, and they were not faithfully following the Lord.



    Mark 8:15 "And Jesus charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? "

    John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?"

    John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: That the saying of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Isaiah said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Isaiah, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    614
    David, not all of them were. They worshipped and followed Jesus. The disciples didn't even know and they were with Jesus, but in their case Jesus' purpose was witheld from them.

    What I gathered from your post was that ALL who didn't know that Christ was there to be the propitation for mankind, didn't know because their hearts were hardened. If that was the case then no one in the OT was saved.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,611
    Only the faithful followers of the Lord in the OT were saved...most likely a very small minority of the total pre-cross population.

    Simeon's faith is a great example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe King View Post
    What I gathered from your post was that ALL who didn't know that Christ was there to be the propitation for mankind, didn't know because their hearts were hardened. If that was the case then no one in the OT was saved.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Only the faithful followers of the Lord in the OT were saved...most likely a very small minority of the total pre-cross population.

    Simeon's faith is a great example.
    The numbers scare me. A LOT of people are going to hell. Most likely 90% of the population or higher!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,611
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe King View Post
    The numbers scare me. A LOT of people are going to hell. Most likely 90% of the population or higher!
    Unfortunate, but true.

    Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

  11. #11
    Partaker of Christ Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Unfortunate, but true.

    Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    Did you find the strait gate, and the narrow way?

    I am glad He found me.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: Jul 8th 2009, 11:32 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •