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Thread: Why do folks expect a 21st century scientific explination from Moses in Genesis?

  1. #1

    Why do folks expect a 21st century scientific explination from Moses in Genesis?

    21st century scientific data was not available to Moses when he wrote Genesis, and even if it was, he was not writing a peer reviewed science text book. A basic explanation of God's creation was all that was needed to get the point across.

    What do you guys think about it?

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    LOL.......I'm with you 100%.

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    With you guys on that, too. The description given was all we need to know: God made it!

    People in every century up to ours assumed that their science, being the most recent, was also correct, complete, and explained the world fully. Scientists especially from the 17th century up until now made assertions like this -- that their understanding of how God created was 'obviously' the most complete, and many people wondered why Genesis didn't use their logic..... and what we've found, in the last several centuries, is that our knowledge is NOT the final word. It keeps growing and changing, and improving, and we keep finding more and more.

    I would NOT be surprised if, eventually, our scientists take a good look at Genesis and see that everything did happen as described there.

    The word of God's the only knowledge that stays the same. And thank God for that!
    -- Your ~sister~ in Christ.... a "Kaffinated Kittykat"!!

    ROMANS 5:8. Forgiven. Freed. Humbled. Amazed. Grateful. Relying on Christ.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeCat View Post
    I would NOT be surprised if, eventually, our scientists take a good look at Genesis and see that everything did happen as described there.
    Australian scientist Ken Ham does this, and the man is a true credentialed genius scientist, not some amateur.

    You guys should check out Ken Ham's, work if you want the real deal about genesis and science being perfectly matched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow hawk View Post
    Australian scientist Ken Ham does this, and the man is a true credentialed genius scientist, not some amateur.

    You guys should check out Ken Ham's, work if you want the real deal about genesis and science being perfectly matched.
    Althoght I like and respect Ken Ham, calling him a genius scientist may be overstating it just a bit. In any event, get out the popcorn because this should get lively!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow hawk View Post
    21st century scientific data was not available to Moses when he wrote Genesis, and even if it was, he was not writing a peer reviewed science text book. A basic explanation of God's creation was all that was needed to get the point across.

    What do you guys think about it?
    The book of Job gives a very good account of the creation and the writing is probably older than Genesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thepenitent View Post
    Althoght I like and respect Ken Ham, calling him a genius scientist may be overstating it just a bit. In any event, get out the popcorn because this should get lively!


    I'm ready.

    Five years ago, I was a liberal secular humanist atheist who talked a lot about how accurate evolution was, how confining religion was, and how deluded people were who thought otherwise.

    And then Christ saved me.....

    .... and to my surprise and delight, I am now a conservative Christian, saved by the blood of Christ, who fully believes the creation account happened exactly as the Bible says it did, and I find myself talking quite a bit about how God can melt even the hardest, most arrogant hearts.... and I know from personal experience.

    The biblical account of everything is what God's written on my heart, so I'll just sit back and enjoy that popcorn.
    -- Your ~sister~ in Christ.... a "Kaffinated Kittykat"!!

    ROMANS 5:8. Forgiven. Freed. Humbled. Amazed. Grateful. Relying on Christ.

    Love is not a place to come and go as we please
    It's a house we enter in, then commit to never leave
    So lock the door behind you, and throw away the key
    We'll work it out together, let it bring us to our knees.....
    Warren Barfield




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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeCat View Post


    I'm ready.

    Five years ago, I was a liberal secular humanist atheist who talked a lot about how accurate evolution was, how confining religion was, and how deluded people were who thought otherwise.

    And then Christ saved me.....

    .... and to my surprise and delight, I am now a conservative Christian, saved by the blood of Christ, who fully believes the creation account happened exactly as the Bible says it did, and I find myself talking quite a bit about how God can melt even the hardest, most arrogant hearts.... and I know from personal experience.

    The biblical account of everything is what God's written on my heart, so I'll just sit back and enjoy that popcorn.
    CoffeeCat, I don't think you mean it this way, but you suggest that those of us accept much of the current scientific understanding have hard and arrogant hearts.
    It is only the cynic who claims “to speak the truth” at all times and in all places to all men in the same way, but who, in fact, displays nothing but a lifeless image of the truth… He dons the halo of the fanatical devotee of truth who can make no allowance for human weaknesses; but, in fact, he is destroying the living truth between men. He wounds shame, desecrates mystery, breaks confidence, betrays the community in which he lives, and laughs arrogantly at the devastation he has wrought and at the human weakness which “cannot bear the truth”. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in Ethics.


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow hawk View Post
    Australian scientist Ken Ham does this, and the man is a true credentialed genius scientist, not some amateur.

    You guys should check out Ken Ham's, work if you want the real deal about genesis and science being perfectly matched.
    I'm not sure if I've ever read sentences more hilarious and at the same time so very sad. Ken Ham is a crackpot, no sense in sugar coating it - the guy makes absolutely ridiculous claims and starts off from the point of view that no matter what evidence science may uncover the literal interpretation of Genesis is always right no matter what. His museum is so bad that not only does he actually portray dinosaurs and people co-existing, but they don't even portray those dinosaurs accurately. My avatar is satire, Ham's concept is dead serious:


    (Really? This is the product of a "true credentialed genius scientist"?)

    Please please please do yourself a HUGE favor and learn about real science from real scientists, not crackpots.
    "The sleep of reason produces monsters" --Francisco Goya

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    CoffeeCat, I don't think you mean it this way, but you suggest that those of us accept much of the current scientific understanding have hard and arrogant hearts.
    Thanks for telling me my post came off that way. I appreciate that... and no, I didn't mean that at ALL! I genuinely apologize for the confusion!

    What I DID mean was that I once believed I was absolutely right, that evolution was the ONLY way to go, that there could be no other way.... that all those who thought otherwise were deluded. I was not talking about those who accept much of the current scientific understanding at all, but instead, was referring more to people who are very, very sure that their way of looking at things is the ONLY way of looking at things.... for example, those who refuse to accept any account of the earth's creation other than the evolutionary one as being possible.

    If you believe evolution was involved in God's creation of the earth, I am not calling your heart hard or arrogant. I am only trying to say that refusing to discuss any other possible methods would be a problematic way of looking at things.

    I apologize again if my words were unduly harsh, or written in a way that caused offense.
    -- Your ~sister~ in Christ.... a "Kaffinated Kittykat"!!

    ROMANS 5:8. Forgiven. Freed. Humbled. Amazed. Grateful. Relying on Christ.

    Love is not a place to come and go as we please
    It's a house we enter in, then commit to never leave
    So lock the door behind you, and throw away the key
    We'll work it out together, let it bring us to our knees.....
    Warren Barfield




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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeCat View Post
    With you guys on that, too. The description given was all we need to know: God made it!
    The thing is though is that some of us aren't content with that. We'd like to know how God went about making 'it'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xel'Naga View Post
    The thing is though is that some of us aren't content with that. We'd like to know how God went about making 'it'.
    That's fair enough.

    And it's definitely interesting to ponder how God did it, and the exact process He used. I could definitely be wrong, but it's always seemed to me that Genesis is more an account that establishes Who began life on earth, and how that life spread out over the world.... it just points to God as the One who started the ball rolling.

    Although I can definitely understand the desire for exact, precise details as to how God did it, I guess I just appreciate that He DID do it... right now, that's just my focus, is all. One day, I might know the exact details, and I think I'll appreciate Him even more for what He did, but right now I'm okay with just knowing He did it. I understand that others don't share my view... that's more than fine.

    Lately, I've just felt less inclined to examine the stuff that has been created, in bitty details, and more inclined to focus on the character of God since He's the Creator. But since that's probably taking this thread down a rabbithole the OP doesn't want, I'll cease and desist. Of course anyone is welcome to examine things with whichever amount of curiosity they have.
    -- Your ~sister~ in Christ.... a "Kaffinated Kittykat"!!

    ROMANS 5:8. Forgiven. Freed. Humbled. Amazed. Grateful. Relying on Christ.

    Love is not a place to come and go as we please
    It's a house we enter in, then commit to never leave
    So lock the door behind you, and throw away the key
    We'll work it out together, let it bring us to our knees.....
    Warren Barfield




  13. #13
    Good topic. I think the better question though is, "Why do some folks want to find a 21st century explanation in Genesis?" The answer is that with the credibility of their faith under attack I think that many believers feel the need to know that the Bible holds up under tough scrutiny.

    And guess what; it does. Answers in Genesis (Ken Ham as mentioned above) is a great place to look. Just Google it and you'll find the website. Remember this, though, God is no more bound to our conceptions of His function in creation, the manner in which He did, than He is bound to our creeds or forms of worship - other than in the manner in which He has revealed Himself in the Bible.

    In other words, we don't need "theistic evolution" the "'Gap Theory" or any other half-way compromise on God's Word. I am saddened to see so many honest believers living under the very false lie of the world that they must find ways to mesh the biblical view with modern science. Science is a grand gift of God but is most rightly used to glorify God, not instill doubt in the hearts of the faithful.
    The Pastor's Study
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    Quote Originally Posted by PilgrimPastor View Post
    Good topic. I think the better question though is, "Why do some folks want to find a 21st century explanation in Genesis?" The answer is that with the credibility of their faith under attack I think that many believers feel the need to know that the Bible holds up under tough scrutiny.

    And guess what; it does. Answers in Genesis (Ken Ham as mentioned above) is a great place to look. Just Google it and you'll find the website. Remember this, though, God is no more bound to our conceptions of His function in creation, the manner in which He did, than He is bound to our creeds or forms of worship - other than in the manner in which He has revealed Himself in the Bible.

    In other words, we don't need "theistic evolution" the "'Gap Theory" or any other half-way compromise on God's Word. I am saddened to see so many honest believers living under the very false lie of the world that they must find ways to mesh the biblical view with modern science. Science is a grand gift of God but is most rightly used to glorify God, not instill doubt in the hearts of the faithful.
    These are the types of posts that bother me.

    IL was right on the money with his description of Ken Ham. If the "science" he has conducted is the work of a genius, then please provide in this thread links to peer reviewed articles where his hypotheses are actually assessed and evaluated by other qualified scientists. If his science is right, then it should stand up to evaluation by scientists of every race, religion, ethnicity, etc.

    Unfortunately the "science" he's conducting is exactly what some Christians want to hear so scientific integrity isn't very high on the list of priorities.

    Life is incredible. The necessary components for life is a miracle so incomprehensibly unfathomable that there is no way it is not the work of God. So I'm saddened when I see Christians demand that other Christians take Genesis 1 and 2 literally because they perceive it as a threat to the entirety of the Bible. I, and many many others, don't interpret it that way and an unnecessarily literal interpretation hasn't exactly panned out well in the past either (Copernicus and Galileo, for example).

    Additionally, I feel that taking Genesis 1 and 2 literally would require a rejection of many practical applications of biology, geology, cosmology and chemistry just to name a few scientific fields.

    To convey this point further, please view lesson 8 "Geology and Earth History" at the following link:

    http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.c...cation-page-2/

    The speaker is a Christian teacher genuinely concerned with the unnecessary stance fellow Christians take on many scientific issues. He brings up an excellent point regarding the application of a literal interpretation of Genesis.

    Basically, he points out that oil industries invest billions of dollars into researching the best locations to drill for fossil fuels, none of which goes towards any science related to a YEC view, or "Flood Geology". Instead, oil company scientists depend on Bio Stratigraphy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biostratigraphy, a scientific field that assumes both an old earth, and the principles of biological evolution.

    He rightly points out that if a literal interpretation of Genesis is the truth, then oil companies would be investing their dollars into scientists who take a Flood Geology/instant creationist stance, since that would more accurately lead to the best results for drilling. But they don't, and when results matter to a company, they're going to go with what is proven to work.
    Last edited by Philemon9; Jul 24th 2009 at 12:41 PM.

  15. #15
    wenlock Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sparrow hawk View Post
    21st century scientific data was not available to Moses when he wrote Genesis, and even if it was, he was not writing a peer reviewed science text book. A basic explanation of God's creation was all that was needed to get the point across.

    What do you guys think about it?
    Why would the God of the Bible want to explain creation at all, in scientific terms? Everything in the Bible is a spiritual message, not a scientific or historic one. The very claim for science in the Bible seems to me to be way off the mark.

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