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Thread: Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension in the OT?

  1. #1
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    Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension in the OT?

    I've been making a list of places where the NT writers say that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension were spoken of by all the prophets. For example, Paul in Acts 26:22-23 said, "I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the Prophets and Moses said would come - that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles." I must need some serious eye-salve, because I don't see such things in the OT.

    Here's my list so far:
    Luke 1:55, 70; 18:31-34; 21:22, 32-33; 22:22, 37; 24:25-27, 32, 44-49
    Acts 3:18, 21, 24; 7:52; 8:35; 9:22; 10:43; 13:27, 29-33; 15:15; 17:1-4, 10-12; 18:28; 19:8; 26:22-23, 27; 28:23
    John 5:39, 46-47; Rom. 1:1-4; 1 Cor. 15:3-4; 1 Pet. 1:10-13

    That's a lot of places! And I'm sure there's many more. At first I thought maybe the NT authors were talking about the Talmud, but they never quote from the Talmud when "proving" Jesus was the Christ from the Scriptures. I'm also wondering if this was how the first century Jews exegeted Scripture (called "targuming"). Anyway. I was wondering what you all thought about this. I want to be able to take the book of Moses and preach Jesus Christ crucified from it, like Paul and Apollos were said to do regularly. Thanks guys.
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

  2. #2
    I'm assuming that when you ask for Old Testament prophecies and references of Christ, you're not meaning just of his death, resurrection, and ascension, correct? You're meaning, everything that speaks of Christ?

    One might say that Paul, Apollos, and the disciples were employing midrash when teaching from the Old Testament. Midrash was an accepted method of exegesis even during the time of the disciples. In that case, one would not necessarily have to find a specific passage of the Old Testament saying, "Then the messiah will be crucified by the people of Judah and the people from the west". Using midrash, they could find passages of the Old Testament that properly corresponded to what they knew about Jesus. For instance, Jesus uses of the story of Jonah to show that, like Jonah was in the whale for three days and three nights, so also would Jesus be in the earth for three days and three nights. Or how Christ said, "as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up". This is midrash, when a deeper meaning or message is derived from a particular passage.

    Christ from Bethlehem
    Micah 5.2 = Matthew 2.1-6

    Christ is opposed
    Psalm 2.2 = Acts 4.26-27; Revelation 19.19

    Christ's betrayal

    Psalm 41.9 = John 13.21-30

    Christ abandoned
    Zechariah 13.7 = Matthew 26.31

    Christ's death

    Isaiah 53.5 = 1 Peter 2.24
    Zechariah 12.10; Psalm 22.16 = John 19.34-37; Revelation 1.7

    Christ's resurrection
    Psalm 16.8-11 = Acts 2.25-31, 13.35-37

    Christ's ascension
    Psalm 68.18, 110 = Acts 2.34-35; Ephesians 4.8-10

    Christ's New Covenant
    Jeremiah 31.31-33; Daniel 9.25-27* = Matthew 26.28; Hebrews 8, 10.16-17

    Christ's arrival
    Daniel 9.24-25 = Gospels

    The Kingdom of God's arrival
    Daniel 2.31-45, 7.1-14 = Matthew 3.1-2, 4.17, 10.7, 12.28; Mark 1.15; Luke 17.20-21

    *Many consider "the prince" of verse 27 to be an evil figure. Yet, it is in verse 25 that Jesus is identified as "messiah, the prince". He is given both titles, "messiah" and "prince". Verse 26 and verse 27 are parallel to each other. In verse 26 "messiah" is spoken of... who is "messiah"? Why, "messiah, the prince" of course! In verse 27 "the prince" is spoken of... who is "the prince"? Why, "messiah, the prince" of course!

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
    I want to be able to take the book of Moses and preach Jesus Christ crucified from it, like Paul and Apollos were said to do regularly. Thanks guys.
    Where's it say that?

    "those which the prophets and Moses did say should come"

    So if you are looking for it all in the book of Moses, you'll be looking a long, long, long time....til death or caught up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    One might say that Paul, Apollos, and the disciples were employing midrash when teaching from the Old Testament. Midrash was an accepted method of exegesis even during the time of the disciples. In that case, one would not necessarily have to find a specific passage of the Old Testament saying, "Then the messiah will be crucified by the people of Judah and the people from the west". Using midrash, they could find passages of the Old Testament that properly corresponded to what they knew about Jesus. For instance, Jesus uses of the story of Jonah to show that, like Jonah was in the whale for three days and three nights, so also would Jesus be in the earth for three days and three nights. Or how Christ said, "as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up". This is midrash, when a deeper meaning or message is derived from a particular passage.
    Those two examples seems like simile, metaphor, or something like that. But, for example, in Acts 2, when Peter refers to 2 Sam. 7, he swaps "Solomon" for "Jesus". Is that Midrash? Because in today's world, that wouldn't fly in a commentary, but it must have been completely legit in their day, as 3000 were saved at Peter's speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Christ's betrayal
    Psalm 41.9 = John 13.21-30

    Christ's death
    Isaiah 53.5 = 1 Peter 2.24
    Zechariah 12.10; Psalm 22.16 = John 19.34-37; Revelation 1.7

    Christ's resurrection
    Psalm 16.8-11 = Acts 2.25-31, 13.35-37

    Christ's ascension
    Psalm 68.18, 110 = Acts 2.34-35; Ephesians 4.8-10

    Christ's New Covenant
    Jeremiah 31.31-33; Daniel 9.25-27* = Matthew 26.28; Hebrews 8, 10.16-17
    Most all of these, similarly, are not about some future messiah figure. This is where I get all confused with how the NT authors treat the OT Scriptures. And because they did this concerning Jesus' first coming, I wonder what Revelation might actually be saying? Do you know what I mean? I do not think that they did these things "as apostles", as I've heard before - it had to have been common in their day, or no one would listen to them. But I want to be able to reproduce it from any Scripture, and not just from the few examples we're given. This is why I want to understand it. How I wish Luke had recorded the dialog on the road to Emmaus, or the teaching on the kingdom between Passover and Pentecost!
    Last edited by Nihil Obstat; Sep 26th 2009 at 05:03 PM.
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    Jesus resume, [OT prophecy], (NT fulfillment)

    Messiah’s sufferings
    • Betrayed by a friend [Psalm 41:9] (Mat 10:4; Mat 26:49-50; John 13:21)
    • Sold for 30 pieces of silver [Zec 11:12] (Mat 26:15; Mat 27:3)
    • Money was thrown in God’s house [Zec 11:13] (Mat 27:5)
    • Forsaken by disciples [Zec 13:7] (Mark 14:50; Mat 26:31)
    • Accused of false witnesses [Psalm 35:11] (Mat 26:59-60)
    • Dumb before accusers [Isa 53:7] (Mat 27:12)
    • Wounded and bruised [Isa 53:5] (Mat 27:26)
    • Smitten and spit on [Isa 50:6; Micah 5:1] (Mat 26:67; Luke 22:63)
    • Mocked [Psalm 22:7-8] (Mat 27:31)
    • Fell under the cross [Psalm 109:24-25] (Luke 23:26; Mat 27:31-32)
    • Hands and feet pierced [Psalm 22:16; Zec 12:10] (Luke 23:33; John 20:25)
    • Crucified with thieves [Isa 53:12] (Mat 27:38; Mark 15:27-28)
    • Rejected by his own people [Isa 53:3; Psalm 69:8; Psalm 118:22] (John 7:5,48; John 1:11; Mat 21:42-43)
    • Hated without a cause [Psalm 69:4; Isa 49:7] (John 15:25)
    • Friends stood afar off [Psalm 38:11] (Luke 23:49; Mark 15:40)
    • People shook their heads at him [Psalm 109:25; Psalm 22:7] (Mat 27:39)
    • Stared upon him [Psalm 22:17] (Luke 23:35)
    • Garments parted and lots cast [Psalm 22:18] (John 19:23-24)
    • To suffer thirst [Psalm 69:21; Psalm 22:15] (John 19:28)
    • Gall and vinegar offered to him [Psalm 69:21] Mat 27:34; John 19:28-29)
    • His forsaken cry (pointing to Psalm 22 a picture of the cross) [Psalm 22:1] (Mat 27:46)
    • Committed himself to God [Psalm31:5] (Luke 23:46)
    • Bones were not broken [Psalm 34:20; Exo 12:46] (John 19:33)
    • Heart broken [Psalm 22:14] (John 19:34)
    • His side pierced [Zec 12:10] (John 19:34)
    • Darkness over the land at noon [Amos 8:9] (Mat 27:45)
    • Buried in rich man’s tomb [Isa 53:9] (Mat 27:57-60)
    • Put down from cross before sunset [Deu 21:22-23; Jos 8:29; Jos 10:26-27; Num 9:6-11] (John 19:31)
    • Killed at Passover [Exo 12:1-10] (Mat 26:2; John 13:1)
    • Resurrects during feast of firstfruits on Sunday morning [Lev 23:11] (1Cor 15:20, 23)
    • Carried wood for his sacrifice [Gen 22:6] (John 19:16-17)
    • Killed outside city gates [Deu 16:5] (John 19:16-17)

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
    I want to be able to take the book of Moses and preach Jesus Christ crucified from it, like Paul and Apollos were said to do regularly. Thanks guys.
    Where's it say that?

    "those which the prophets and Moses did say should come"

    So if you are looking for it all in the book of Moses, you'll be looking a long, long, long time....til death or caught up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
    I've been making a list of places where the NT writers say that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension were spoken of by all the prophets. For example, Paul in Acts 26:22-23 said, "I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the Prophets and Moses said would come - that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles." I must need some serious eye-salve, because I don't see such things in the OT.

    Here's my list so far:
    Luke 1:55, 70; 18:31-34; 21:22, 32-33; 22:22, 37; 24:25-27, 32, 44-49
    Acts 3:18, 21, 24; 7:52; 8:35; 9:22; 10:43; 13:27, 29-33; 15:15; 17:1-4, 10-12; 18:28; 19:8; 26:22-23, 27; 28:23
    John 5:39, 46-47; Rom. 1:1-4; 1 Cor. 15:3-4; 1 Pet. 1:10-13

    That's a lot of places! And I'm sure there's many more. At first I thought maybe the NT authors were talking about the Talmud, but they never quote from the Talmud when "proving" Jesus was the Christ from the Scriptures. I'm also wondering if this was how the first century Jews exegeted Scripture (called "targuming"). Anyway. I was wondering what you all thought about this. I want to be able to take the book of Moses and preach Jesus Christ crucified from it, like Paul and Apollos were said to do regularly. Thanks guys.
    Hi,

    I would suggest that you look up the NT quotes in the Septuagint. This is the Bible that Christ and the apostles used. Many of the NT quotes in modern English translations do not match the OT references. If you use the Septuagint you will find that the vast majority in NT quotes are found in the word for word in the Septuagint. This might make it easier to find the correlation between the NT quotes and the OT references. Here are links to two sites where you can read the Septuagint online.

    http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/

    http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    You can also download an interlinear version here,

    http://apostolicbible.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch5 View Post
    Hi,

    I would suggest that you look up the NT quotes in the Septuagint. This is the Bible that Christ and the apostles used. Many of the NT quotes in modern English translations do not match the OT references. If you use the Septuagint you will find that the vast majority in NT quotes are found in the word for word in the Septuagint. This might make it easier to find the correlation between the NT quotes and the OT references. Here are links to two sites where you can read the Septuagint online.

    http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/

    http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    You can also download an interlinear version here,

    http://apostolicbible.com/
    Thank you! I'm going to bookmark those sites.
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirus View Post
    Where's it say that?

    "those which the prophets and Moses did say should come"

    So if you are looking for it all in the book of Moses, you'll be looking a long, long, long time....til death or caught up.
    Not sure the point you're trying to make... It says Moses AND the Prophets, not Moses with the Prophets. This means both said the same thing concerning the Christ.
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Servant89 View Post
    Jesus resume, [OT prophecy], (NT fulfillment)
    Again, most all of those OT references have nothing to do with a future Messiah figure. They just don't. I'm starting to wonder if by "fulfill" the NT authors meant something other than how we might be thinking... For example, in Acts 13:27 Paul says that the Jews fulfilled the Prophets in condemning their own Savior, Jesus. Where do the Prophets (plural) speak of such a thing? It's just not there. But what is there over and over in the Prophets is the Jews condemning Yahweh who longs to save them. When they condemned Jesus, who is Yahweh in the flesh, to death on a cross, they "fulfilled", or, "filled to the full" their rage against God. And in this way all manner of OT Scriptural references could be said to be fulfilled by them, even if those references do not speak about a future Messiah figure and even seem to be completely ripped from their original context.

    What are your thoughts about this? - astro
    Last edited by Nihil Obstat; Sep 28th 2009 at 04:49 PM. Reason: spelling
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
    I've been making a list of places where the NT writers say that Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension were spoken of by all the prophets. For example, Paul in Acts 26:22-23 said, "I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the Prophets and Moses said would come - that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles." I must need some serious eye-salve, because I don't see such things in the OT.

    Here's my list so far:
    Luke 1:55, 70; 18:31-34; 21:22, 32-33; 22:22, 37; 24:25-27, 32, 44-49
    Acts 3:18, 21, 24; 7:52; 8:35; 9:22; 10:43; 13:27, 29-33; 15:15; 17:1-4, 10-12; 18:28; 19:8; 26:22-23, 27; 28:23
    John 5:39, 46-47; Rom. 1:1-4; 1 Cor. 15:3-4; 1 Pet. 1:10-13

    That's a lot of places! And I'm sure there's many more. At first I thought maybe the NT authors were talking about the Talmud, but they never quote from the Talmud when "proving" Jesus was the Christ from the Scriptures. I'm also wondering if this was how the first century Jews exegeted Scripture (called "targuming"). Anyway. I was wondering what you all thought about this. I want to be able to take the book of Moses and preach Jesus Christ crucified from it, like Paul and Apollos were said to do regularly. Thanks guys.
    I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but here is a list of major Old Testament Christocentrism:

    Genesis:Christ seen as: Creator (1; Col 1:16); the Beginning (Rev 1:8); “The Seed of the woman” (3:15; Matt 1:23); the Ark of Salvation (6-8; Luke 2:30); our Isaac, the only begotten Son (John 3:16); our Joseph, the beloved Son (Matt 3:17).
    Exodus: Christ seen as: our Deliverer (Acts 5:31); Mediator (Heb 8:6); Lawgiver (Heb 8:10); High Priest (Heb 2:17); our Passover Lamb (12; 1st Cor 5:7); and as the Tabernacle of God with men (25-40; John 1:14).
    Leviticus: Christ seen as: our Sacrifice and oblation (Heb 10:12); our
    Holy High Priest (Heb 7:26), making atonement with His blood for our sin (Heb 9:14), and thus making our way of approach to God (Heb 7:25).
    Numbers: Christ seen as: the Tabernacle (John 1:14); our Sanctuary in the wilderness (Ezek 11:16); the Nazarite (Heb 7:26), the Son of man lifted up as a serpent of Brass (John 3:14), the smitten Rock (1st Cor 10:4), and the “Star of Jacob” (Matthew 2:2).
    Deuteronomy: Christ seen as: the true Prophet (18:15-19; Acts 3:22); and our Rock (32:4, 18, 31; 1st Cor 10:4).
    Joshua: Christ seen as: our Joshua, the Captain of our salvation, wielding the sword of the Spirit, and leading the New Testament Israel into her inheritance (Heb 4:8; 2:10; Josh 5:13-15).
    Judges: Christ seen as: Judge – Savior – Deliverer upon whom “the Spirit of the Lord came” bringing deliverance from servitude to sin and Satan.
    Ruth: Christ seen as: a Mighty Man (2:1); Lord of the harvest (2:4-17), and our Kinsman-Redeemer, bringing us into union with Himself through grace.
    1st Samuel: Christ seen as: our anointed Prophet, Priest, King and Intercessor. He is seen as the only true claimant to the Scepter of Judah, the Throne of David, and the Everlasting Kingdom of Israel (Luke 1:31-33).
    2nd Samuel: Christ seen as: the Son of David; as the “Greater King David”, who establishes the N.T. order of worship
    1st Kings: Christ seen as: King of peace and glory, the Wisdom of God
    (1st Cor 1:30); the builder of God’s temple (Eph 2:20-22); the “Greater than Solomon” (Matt 12:42).
    2nd Kings: Christ seen as: the Righteous King, the Man of God, and the Word of the Lord personified (3:12; John 1:14).
    1st Chronicles: Christ seen as: the “Greater King David”, who receives the revelation and makes preparation before His death for the building of the spiritual Temple (The Church – Eph 2:20, 21), under the ministry of the Holy Spirit (Solomon).
    2nd Chronicles: Christ seen as: our Prophet, Priest and King; the Cleanser of the temple.
    Ezra: Christ seen as: our Governor (Zerubbabel), and our Priest, Scribe and Restorer (Ezra) of religious, social and civil order.
    Nehemiah: Christ seen as: the Governor of Judah (Matt 2:6) who left heaven’s palaces (Psalm 45:8), and is revealed as a Man of prayer and work (John 17; Matt 16:18) in the spiritual reformation of Jerusalem.
    Esther: Christ seen as: the King, for whom the church (Esther) is prepared to be married to by the ministry of the Word (Mordecai) and the Spirit (Hegai).
    Job: Christ seen as: the Priest, whose patient suffering was inflicted by Satan, but purposed by God.
    Psalms: Christ seen as: the “Beloved” of God singing praise in the midst of the church (Heb 2:12).
    Proverbs:Christ seen as: the Wisdom of God (1st Cor 1:24, 30) “in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Col 2:3). Wisdom is personified (1:20-33; 8:1-36).
    Ecclesiastes: Christ seen as: the Preacher, the Son of David, the Wisdom of God, and the King of Jerusalem “from above” (1:1; 1st Cor 1:24; Gal 4:26).
    Song of Solomon: Christ seen as: King of peace, and the beloved Bridegroom Lover of the church.
    Isaiah: Christ seen: in His Messianic glory as the Holy One of Israel (Mark 1:24); our Righteousness (1st Cor 1:30), and comfort (John 14:16, 18). All judgment has been committed to Him (John 5:22).
    Jeremiah: Christ seen as: the anointed Prophet to Jerusalem, suffering with, for, and at the hands of His own nation. He is the Righteous branch, the King, the Lord our Righteousness, and the Maker of the New Covenant (chapters 23, and 31).
    Lamentations: Christ seen as: the interceding, weeping Prophet, “the Man of Sorrows”, lamenting as He foretells the desolations of Judah, Jerusalem, the temple, and the Land (Luke 19:41-44; 21:20-24; Matt 23:37, 38; 24:1-4).
    Ezekiel: Christ seen as: “the Son of Man” sent to the rebellious house
    Of Judah, beginning His ministry to the faithful remnant at age 30, with opened heavens. He prophesied of the departing glory from the natural temple at Jerusalem, and its destruction, and spoke of the glory returning to the New temple, the church.
    Daniel: Christ seen as: the Son of Man (7:13); the Stone cut out of the mountain without hands (2;34, 35, 44, 45), crushing kingdoms of this world. The kingdom of God is seen as an everlasting Kingdom (7:27), and Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev 19:16).
    Hosea: Christ seen as: the Prophet, fulfilling the law (Matt 5:17-18), and redeeming in love.
    Joel: Christ seen as: our “Jehovah-God”, the Promiser (Luke 24:49), the Receiver of (Acts 2:33), and the Baptizer in (John 1:31-33) the out-poured Spirit.
    Amos: Christ seen as: our “burden-bearer”, not only bearing our sins, but also the burden of the Word of the Lord (John 1:1-2). He is the final Judge and Punisher of all nations; the Builder of the church, the spiritual tabernacle of David.
    Obadiah: Christ seen as: the Servant (Phil 2:7) and Worshipper (Heb 2:12) of Jehovah, and the executor of Divine retribution (2nd Thess 1:6-10).
    Jonah: Christ seen as: “the greater than Jonah”, using Jonah’s experiences as a sign of His own death, burial, and resurrection and of God’s mercy on the repentant Gentiles (Matt 12:39-41).
    Micah: Christ seen as: the heavenly Micah, who is “like God”, born in Bethlehem (5:2), rejected as the King of the Jews (5:1), and the establisher of His house (4:1, 2; Heb 3:6).
    Nahum: Christ seen as: the Prophet of comfort and vengeance, comforting His own, and executing vengeance on all them who do not know God and obey the Gospel (2nd Thess 1:8).
    Habakkuk: Christ seen as: the Judge of Babylon (Rev 17, 19), and the
    Rewarder of those who diligently seek Him in faith (Heb 10:38; 11:6).
    Zephaniah: Christ seen as: a jealous God (1:18; 3:8; 2nd Cor 11:2) in relation to His people, and the Executor of God’s judgments in the day of wrath (John 5:27; Rom 2:5-6).
    Haggai: Christ seen as: our Prophet (Haggai), Priest (Jeshua), and Prince (Zerubbabel), thus uniting the three offices in one Person. He is the Builder of the Lord’s house – the Church (Matt 16:18; Heb 3:5).
    Zechariah: Christ seen as: “The One whom God remembers” (Zechariah); the Branch (3:8); Jehovah’s servant; the smitten Shepard (13:7); the King Priest (6:9-12); the Builder of the spiritual temple (6:12-15); and the King over all the earth (14:9).
    Malachi: Christ seen as: the messenger of the New Covenant; the Refiner and Purifier of His people (3:1-3); and the cleanser of the temple (John 2:13-17; Matt 21:12-14).

    Surely, "we have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" (Jn 1:45).

    Z.
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAB View Post
    I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but here is a list of major Old Testament Christocentrism:
    No, this isn't what I'm looking for. And I don't want this to turn into a contest of who can post the most thorough list of "Jesus" in the the OT (not that it has yet). What I'm looking to have is an honest discussion on why the NT claims that ALL the Prophets, Moses, and the Psalms spoke about Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension, when they just don't seem to at all. Even the Scriptures referenced by Peter and Paul while preaching (in Acts, for example) often do not have anything to do with what they are using them for. So again, I'm looking for dialog, not a list. Thanks guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
    No, this isn't what I'm looking for. And I don't want this to turn into a contest of who can post the most thorough list of "Jesus" in the the OT (not that it has yet).
    forgive me for trying to help .
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAB View Post
    forgive me for trying to help .
    Please don't misunderstand me. I was just simply taking note that from markedward to Servant89 to you, the list grew and grew. I've seen lists like these, but what many overlook is that most all of those verses in the lists have nothing to do with a future messiah. What's more, a number of the Scriptural "lists" have nothing to do with a future messiah either. That's why I started this thread. I want to discuss what the NT authors may have actually meant by "fulfill" (one suggestion of which I made here).
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astrongerthanhe View Post

    Most all of these, similarly, are not about some future messiah figure. This is where I get all confused with how the NT authors treat the OT Scriptures. And because they did this concerning Jesus' first coming, I wonder what Revelation might actually be saying? Do you know what I mean? I do not think that they did these things "as apostles", as I've heard before - it had to have been common in their day, or no one would listen to them. But I want to be able to reproduce it from any Scripture, and not just from the few examples we're given. This is why I want to understand it. How I wish Luke had recorded the dialog on the road to Emmaus, or the teaching on the kingdom between Passover and Pentecost!
    So, you want to know how Paul and others preached Jesus out of the OT books? Concerning His sacrifice, burial, resurrection, etc?

    If so, what about the entire tabernacle structure. That whole system was a pattern of the heavenly.

    Z.
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



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