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Thread: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by T W Taylor View Post
    Hello Reynolds357,

    .

    Why not? Babylon is a city, and isn’t Mystery Babylon their religion ? TWTaylor
    Does not really make sense to me. The beautiful thing about prophecy is that we can not 100% know we are correct. You could be correct. I personally do not believe you are. The context just doe not seem to fit what you are saying. Why would the city be a known and the region a mystery? Just does not make sense to me.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayeagle48 View Post
    Not so fast friend, New York rules over the Kings of the earth in the end times, ever heard of the United Nations?
    Rome wears purple and scarlet robes, Rome uses golden cups, Rome has a history of slaughtering christians and Jews, Rome ruled and still rules over kings, Rome is known as the city of seven hills, Rome dominates (sits on) the final ruling structures, Rome controls the UN. You must look behind the scenes to understand which European aristocracy controls world finance and who they are connected to. You will see a surprising modern trend of Roman Catholics in many positions of power (US judiciary, Central Banks etc etc). If you think that terrorism, various governments are all acting independently you must learn how the final empire tramples and breaks up earth, it does not unify earth until the ten regions are created. (first the fouth beast controls earth, then the fourth beast breaks up earth , then the fourth beast unifies earth under the ten horns (regions)) according to daniel 7.

    This is the same 3 stages of Rome referred to in Daniel 2: First the iron stage, thenthe iron and clay
    (divided and broken earth), and the final ten toes stage.

    This is the same 3 stages of Rome referred to in Rev 17: One is (Roman Empire), one is to come (Holy Roman empire), this empire remains a little (lasts longer), and the 8th empire or final beast (the small country that dominates the world, using the power of the ten horns) is ridden by Rome, the city that rules over kings.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    In prophecy, you have both Babylon and Mystery Babylon. It would be hard for Rome to be both.
    It may be hard to make a different between Babylon the city,and Mystery Babylon[woman]
    For many of the blood of the saints has come by the woman and also the city.

    As Paul called Rome; Babylon maybe because of her perscution of the saints, but we can also find were Jesus spoke of the pharisees as being the killers of the prophets and wise men even himself.

    4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
    5For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
    6Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
    7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
    8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her Revelation 18
    Was not the temple and jerusalem burned?

  4. #34
    Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
    How can Babylon be constrained to any one time frame or location if "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" can be found in her? No single location or time frame contains the blod of all.
    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Bob View Post
    Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
    How can Babylon be constrained to any one time frame or location if "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" can be found in her? No single location or time frame contains the blod of all.
    It could be understood as this passage implies.Which was pointed at that generation of scribes and Pharisees.

    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
    36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation Matthew 23

  6. #36
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    Hello Reynolds357, and all, As always I think I am right, But I didn’t explain what I was talking about, Mystery Babylon, Before the people of Babylon left the area of Mesopotamia when the Persians and Medes took over. I understand the people of Babylon called the worship of their gods The Babylonian Mystery Religion. Sorry, Sometimes I suppose I think everybody Just knows what I’m talking about.

    Why not? Babylon is a city, and isn’t Mystery Babylon their religion ? TWTaylor
    Maybe Peter called Rome, Babylon because that is there the Babylonians went when they left Mesopotamia?? It looks like that might be the only direction the Babylonians could go to get away from the Persians and Medes. Could it be the reason Rome is called Babylon, is because, maybe that’s where Babylon Moved to???

    Jer 50:2 "Declare among the nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim-do not conceal it-Say, 'Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed. Merodach is broken in pieces; Her idols are humiliated, Her images are broken in pieces.'
    Jer 50:3 For out of the north a nation comes up against her, Which shall make her land desolate, And no one shall dwell therein. They shall move, they shall depart, Both man and beast.

    TWTaylor
    Last edited by T W Taylor; Jan 1st 2010 at 02:24 AM. Reason: underline

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Beckrl View Post
    It could be understood as this passage implies.Which was pointed at that generation of scribes and Pharisees.

    The verse you quote from Matthew only speaks of the blood of all the righteous, it makes no mention of the blood of the unrighteous. The verse in Rev 18 says of all. All includes everybody slain from Abel until the last person to be slaiin on earth is slain, not just the righteous
    Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Bob View Post
    The verse you quote from Matthew only speaks of the blood of all the righteous, it makes no mention of the blood of the unrighteous. The verse in Rev 18 says of all. All includes everybody slain from Abel until the last person to be slaiin on earth is slain, not just the righteous
    I'm not sure I follow your point.

    So God is requiring the blood of the generation of scribes and Pharisees because their father killed righteous prophets, BUT would also require the blood of the great city of Babylon for those same righteous prophet that he required from the Pharisees?

    So which one is accountible for those prophets and wise men?

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    This "prophet" seems to be way off if you read his predictions back in 2011. http://holyforchrist777.blogspot.com...hand-from.html

    Store up provision for 6 months? Hyperinflation? When has that been the case over the last 8 years? Flee the major cities due to rioting and looting? If he is so far off, I doubt his vision that America is to be called "Babylon."

    This sounds too sensationalistic, even if the "prophet" sincerely believes his visions are from God. The bottom line is, "Harlot Babylon" in Rev 17 was a reality in John's day. And the US did not exist at that time. The US did not persecute apostles and prophets--it wasn't even around when the apostles lived and ministered!

    If you want to discuss what "Harlot Babylon" is, you need to examine what she is described as being in Rev 17-18. There is plenty of information to draw upon. It doesn't in the least fit the US.

    Keep in mind that having the kinds of sin that ancient Babylon had does not qualify any country to be "Harlot Babylon." We are talking about a specific prophetic entity that will be active at the end of the age--an entity that has already been around since the apostles. My view is that Harlot Babylon is the city of Rome.

  10. #40
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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    This "prophet" seems to be way off if you read his predictions back in 2011. http://holyforchrist777.blogspot.com...hand-from.html

    Store up provision for 6 months? Hyperinflation? When has that been the case over the last 8 years? Flee the major cities due to rioting and looting? If he is so far off, I doubt his vision that America is to be called "Babylon."

    This sounds too sensationalistic, even if the "prophet" sincerely believes his visions are from God. The bottom line is, "Harlot Babylon" in Rev 17 was a reality in John's day. And the US did not exist at that time. The US did not persecute apostles and prophets--it wasn't even around when the apostles lived and ministered!

    If you want to discuss what "Harlot Babylon" is, you need to examine what she is described as being in Rev 17-18. There is plenty of information to draw upon. It doesn't in the least fit the US.

    Keep in mind that having the kinds of sin that ancient Babylon had does not qualify any country to be "Harlot Babylon." We are talking about a specific prophetic entity that will be active at the end of the age--an entity that has already been around since the apostles. My view is that Harlot Babylon is the city of Rome.
    The Harlot = All False Religion.

    Babylon = False Governance under Satan (see Luke 4 he tells Jesus he controls all the world's Kingdoms). The Head of Gold was Babylon.

    The Harlot RIDES the Beast. Of course he was wrong, like 99 percent of the people are on the Harlot, Babylon etc. etc. The Harlot is KILLED OFF by the 10 Kings in league with the Beast, thus she is no more, thus Islam and all False Religions (Save Beast Worship who God will take care of Himself/Jesus) will be destroyed (Judged).

    Babylon being destroyed in Rev. 18 is the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. They are two entities, just like it states, the Harlot RIDES the Beast.

    Rev. 17:18 only references John back to what he SAW in the vision, which was the name Babylon on her FOREHEAD. Prostitutes in days of old wore their names on their heads so their customers would recognize them more easily, with a headband. There was the name BABYLON..........BUt there were three other names also, these are placed there so we will RECOGNIZE who the Harlot is. MYSTERY (Mystery Religions), Babylon the Great (Where she was Birthed/her Zenith), Mother of Harlots (Where False Religion was Birthed), and of course last but not least, Abominations of the Earth ( Serving False gods is an ABOMINATION unto God ).

    So using these names, who is the Harlot ? She is of course ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME. It fits every descriptor to a tee.

    Mystery...........Babylon the great........Mother of Harlots...........Abominations of the Earth = All False Religion.

  11. #41
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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Harlot = All False Religion.

    Babylon = False Governance under Satan (see Luke 4 he tells Jesus he controls all the world's Kingdoms). The Head of Gold was Babylon.

    The Harlot RIDES the Beast. Of course he was wrong, like 99 percent of the people are on the Harlot, Babylon etc. etc. The Harlot is KILLED OFF by the 10 Kings in league with the Beast, thus she is no more, thus Islam and all False Religions (Save Beast Worship who God will take care of Himself/Jesus) will be destroyed (Judged).

    Babylon being destroyed in Rev. 18 is the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. They are two entities, just like it states, the Harlot RIDES the Beast.

    Rev. 17:18 only references John back to what he SAW in the vision, which was the name Babylon on her FOREHEAD. Prostitutes in days of old wore their names on their heads so their customers would recognize them more easily, with a headband. There was the name BABYLON..........BUt there were three other names also, these are placed there so we will RECOGNIZE who the Harlot is. MYSTERY (Mystery Religions), Babylon the Great (Where she was Birthed/her Zenith), Mother of Harlots (Where False Religion was Birthed), and of course last but not least, Abominations of the Earth ( Serving False gods is an ABOMINATION unto God ).

    So using these names, who is the Harlot ? She is of course ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME. It fits every descriptor to a tee.

    Mystery...........Babylon the great........Mother of Harlots...........Abominations of the Earth = All False Religion.
    That's all interesting. Our viewpoints intersect but do not match--that's okay. Maybe we can learn from one another?

    I see the names as follows:

    Mystery: John was not allowed to divulge the name as Rome because he was under Roman custody. It would be viewed as seditious. So the language is symbolic, and thus "mysterious." It is a riddle to be solved by John's readers.

    The Great: Rome was an Empire. It was not a little Kingdom. This identity precludes all countries in John's time, but Rome. Rome ruled over them all.

    Mother: Rome corrupted all the countries under its pagan influence. Even after Christianity took root in Europe there has been a continual return to paganism in a variety of forms. In our day, Rationalism is a terrible form of idolatry, with its anti-supernatural bias. Humanism has become the philosophy of the day. And it was all present in the Roman Empire.

    Abominations: Pagan Rome was the "Abomination of Desolation." Her armies surrounded Jerusalem with pagan images and idolatrous worship.

    I do believe that Rome has been the final world empire to spawn a pagan reaction to Christianity. This is where our views intersect. Western Culture is at the center of False Religion in the sense of opposing Christianity. Perhaps Islam plays a role in this too, since Muslims inherited the Eastern part of the old Roman Empire?

    I distinguish between the Harlot and the Beast she rides upon in the same way I distinguish the city of Rome from the Empire that she depends on. They are, in my view, the same cultural entity, but they are distinct entities. The Antichrist will assume control of the Empire, while the city of Rome will be destroyed by him.

  12. #42
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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Harlot = All False Religion.

    Babylon = False Governance under Satan (see Luke 4 he tells Jesus he controls all the world's Kingdoms). The Head of Gold was Babylon.

    The Harlot RIDES the Beast. Of course he was wrong, like 99 percent of the people are on the Harlot, Babylon etc. etc. The Harlot is KILLED OFF by the 10 Kings in league with the Beast, thus she is no more, thus Islam and all False Religions (Save Beast Worship who God will take care of Himself/Jesus) will be destroyed (Judged).

    Babylon being destroyed in Rev. 18 is the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments. They are two entities, just like it states, the Harlot RIDES the Beast.

    Rev. 17:18 only references John back to what he SAW in the vision, which was the name Babylon on her FOREHEAD. Prostitutes in days of old wore their names on their heads so their customers would recognize them more easily, with a headband. There was the name BABYLON..........BUt there were three other names also, these are placed there so we will RECOGNIZE who the Harlot is. MYSTERY (Mystery Religions), Babylon the Great (Where she was Birthed/her Zenith), Mother of Harlots (Where False Religion was Birthed), and of course last but not least, Abominations of the Earth ( Serving False gods is an ABOMINATION unto God ).

    So using these names, who is the Harlot ? She is of course ALL FALSE RELIGION of ALL TIME. It fits every descriptor to a tee.

    Mystery...........Babylon the great........Mother of Harlots...........Abominations of the Earth = All False Religion.
    When the bible itself interprets symbolism, then we do not need to.

    The woman of Rev 17 is : "v18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

    I agree with Randyk. The harlot is Rome, the great city that ruled over the kings of the land when rev was written. I believe that we must still look to Rome as the city of purple and scarlet robes that has current influence over Europe's leadership and trade.

  13. #43
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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    When the bible itself interprets symbolism, then we do not need to.

    The woman of Rev 17 is : "v18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

    I agree with Randyk. The harlot is Rome, the great city that ruled over the kings of the land when rev was written. I believe that we must still look to Rome as the city of purple and scarlet robes that has current influence over Europe's leadership and trade.
    Babylon is used for a Metaphor, Babylon will never be rebuilt. So what is Babylon ?

    That is what I explain using the very word of God. Of course if people have a preconceived notions then they will follow men's traditions in the end..

    God says exactly what he sees as Babylon. People seemingly want to take a DESCRIPTOR, which is one of four, and turn it into THE WOMAN when it's just a Description of the woman. Then John is reminded of what the Woman he saw was, that Great City.................Where she was birthed. Babylon and the Harlot are two entities, until people grasp that they will never understand who the Harlot is or who Babylon is. The Harlot rides the Beast and is KILLED OFF by the Kings in league with the Beast.

    The Harlot is all false religion of all time. It really doesn't matter what men think in the end, facts are facts. So you the Harlot is Babylon and it's going to be destroyed by God's Plagues in Rev. 18, when God says shes going to be killed off in Rev. 17:16 by the Kings themselves !! There is only one way it all fits, the Beast who wants to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD, has his 10 Kings kill off the Harlot Religions so he can be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! That is why a Religious Beast is needed, to Beast over Religion, a False Prophet enters the picture at the same time the Harlot s KILLED OFF.

    The bible does interpret itself, that is what I did showing who God sees as Babylon, the Whole World. The Beast's are ALWAYS GOVERNMENTS !! The Harlot RIDES the Gov. Beast. They are TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES. It's a fact. The Four Descriptors are describing the Harlot, turning one of her descriptors into her being Babylon is like saying she's a Mystery ONLY, are the Mother of Harlots ONLY, or an Abomination ONLY. She is not Babylon ONLY, that just describes her, she was co-mingled with Babylon, when one thinks of Babylon they think of false gods/religions/Harlotry.

    It's spelled out by God in Rev. 16:19 who Babylon is as per who God sees Babylon as. It doesn't matter what we think it is in the end, God tells us what He sees it as. He sees the Kingdoms He defeats at Armageddon as BABYLON !! We then can look back and see who fought him at BABYLON. Men just have a hard time letting go of former ideas, it's a trait in us, we are competitive by nature, so it's hard for God to tell us things we already know. Believe me, 5 years ago I was the same way, that is when the Holy Spirit was like, you know why you are in a rut as per understanding prophecy Ron ? Because you know everything already, thus I can't teach you anything, all of these end time messages that were locked up until "now", well, MEN'S TRADITIONS have men so enamored with certain positions, when I whisper my truths unto them they/you can't hear it. Empty all of your thoughts from your mind and let Me teach you !! Like people do as young Christians, and I will show you truths instead of Men's Traditions.

    Rome, nor Jerusalem, nor the RCC, not Islam has anything to do, IN FULL, with Babylon or the Harlot. The biggest part of the Harlot of course is Islam, she will be DESTROYED or JUDGED un Rev, 17:16, along with all other false religions, the Beast/Kings do this at the same time they are killing Jews and the Remnant Christian Church. So the goal is evident, NO RELIGIONS can survive save Beast Worship !!

    In Rev. 18, God Destroys Babylon (The World under Satan's Rule). That is why the Commerce is destroyed, the Plagues of God do this to the Whole World, not ONE CITY !!

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Babylon is used for a Metaphor, Babylon will never be rebuilt. So what is Babylon ?

    That is what I explain using the very word of God. Of course if people have a preconceived notions then they will follow men's traditions in the end..

    God says exactly what he sees as Babylon. People seemingly want to take a DESCRIPTOR, which is one of four, and turn it into THE WOMAN when it's just a Description of the woman. Then John is reminded of what the Woman he saw was, that Great City.................Where she was birthed. Babylon and the Harlot are two entities, until people grasp that they will never understand who the Harlot is or who Babylon is. The Harlot rides the Beast and is KILLED OFF by the Kings in league with the Beast.

    The Harlot is all false religion of all time. It really doesn't matter what men think in the end, facts are facts. So you the Harlot is Babylon and it's going to be destroyed by God's Plagues in Rev. 18, when God says shes going to be killed off in Rev. 17:16 by the Kings themselves !! There is only one way it all fits, the Beast who wants to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD, has his 10 Kings kill off the Harlot Religions so he can be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! That is why a Religious Beast is needed, to Beast over Religion, a False Prophet enters the picture at the same time the Harlot s KILLED OFF.

    The bible does interpret itself, that is what I did showing who God sees as Babylon, the Whole World. The Beast's are ALWAYS GOVERNMENTS !! The Harlot RIDES the Gov. Beast. They are TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES. It's a fact. The Four Descriptors are describing the Harlot, turning one of her descriptors into her being Babylon is like saying she's a Mystery ONLY, are the Mother of Harlots ONLY, or an Abomination ONLY. She is not Babylon ONLY, that just describes her, she was co-mingled with Babylon, when one thinks of Babylon they think of false gods/religions/Harlotry.

    It's spelled out by God in Rev. 16:19 who Babylon is as per who God sees Babylon as. It doesn't matter what we think it is in the end, God tells us what He sees it as. He sees the Kingdoms He defeats at Armageddon as BABYLON !! We then can look back and see who fought him at BABYLON. Men just have a hard time letting go of former ideas, it's a trait in us, we are competitive by nature, so it's hard for God to tell us things we already know. Believe me, 5 years ago I was the same way, that is when the Holy Spirit was like, you know why you are in a rut as per understanding prophecy Ron ? Because you know everything already, thus I can't teach you anything, all of these end time messages that were locked up until "now", well, MEN'S TRADITIONS have men so enamored with certain positions, when I whisper my truths unto them they/you can't hear it. Empty all of your thoughts from your mind and let Me teach you !! Like people do as young Christians, and I will show you truths instead of Men's Traditions.

    Rome, nor Jerusalem, nor the RCC, not Islam has anything to do, IN FULL, with Babylon or the Harlot. The biggest part of the Harlot of course is Islam, she will be DESTROYED or JUDGED un Rev, 17:16, along with all other false religions, the Beast/Kings do this at the same time they are killing Jews and the Remnant Christian Church. So the goal is evident, NO RELIGIONS can survive save Beast Worship !!

    In Rev. 18, God Destroys Babylon (The World under Satan's Rule). That is why the Commerce is destroyed, the Plagues of God do this to the Whole World, not ONE CITY !!
    I am more literal than you, when the bible says the symbolism (Babylon/whore) represents a city, I stop there, instead of seeing the city as further symbolism.

    Nevertheless you are correct in much of what you say. I believe just as the actual city of Babylon represented the historical base of false religion, so the city of Rome will represent the final base of false religion. Her influence over false religion of all types is spreading worldwide, and escalating. Rome often represented the power and influence of Europe, and I believe the Catholic church has it's members in disproportionate control over the EU at the moment. Thus the trade and influence of the EU is that of Rome itself. By seeing this "whore" as worldwide, you miss the obvious reference to that "whore" as an actual wealthy location within the world:
    In one hour your doom has come!’ 11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore
    “Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I am more literal than you, when the bible says the symbolism (Babylon/whore) represents a city, I stop there, instead of seeing the city as further symbolism.

    Nevertheless you are correct in much of what you say. I believe just as the actual city of Babylon represented the historical base of false religion, so the city of Rome will represent the final base of false religion. Her influence over false religion of all types is spreading worldwide, and escalating. Rome often represented the power and influence of Europe, and I believe the Catholic church has it's members in disproportionate control over the EU at the moment. Thus the trade and influence of the EU is that of Rome itself. By seeing this "whore" as worldwide, you miss the obvious reference to that "whore" as an actual wealthy location within the world:
    In one hour your doom has come!’ 11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore
    “Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’
    Greetings DD, it is symbolism, but it actually is called THAT Great City, not a Great City. That as in a coded reference to Wickedness. It would have been Dangerous to say the World is going to be judged and destroyed by God, that would have angered the Romans. But when the word Babylon was used, they were just amused, it was basically a "Dead City" anyway. Thus it was used as a code word. The Harlot was a way to speak about Romes false gods and all false gods/religions being judged. The Waters where she sits is indeed worldwide.

    As per Babylon and the Merchants, ONE HOUR = 42 Months. The Kings rule ONE HOUR { 42 months } with the Beast. The Plagues that destroy the COMMERCE is just the Seal, TRumpet and Vial Judgments, of course they are going to destroy the Commerce, at least 3 Billion people die, all the grasses are burned and a 1/3 of the trees are burned.

    People weave these ideas together about Islam or the RCC and just run with it, even though neither one fits in total.

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