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Thread: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

  1. #46
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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I am more literal than you, when the bible says the symbolism (Babylon/whore) represents a city, I stop there, instead of seeing the city as further symbolism.

    Nevertheless you are correct in much of what you say. I believe just as the actual city of Babylon represented the historical base of false religion, so the city of Rome will represent the final base of false religion. Her influence over false religion of all types is spreading worldwide, and escalating. Rome often represented the power and influence of Europe, and I believe the Catholic church has it's members in disproportionate control over the EU at the moment. Thus the trade and influence of the EU is that of Rome itself. By seeing this "whore" as worldwide, you miss the obvious reference to that "whore" as an actual wealthy location within the world:
    In one hour your doom has come!’ 11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore
    “Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’
    I agree with you that the Harlot Babylon is the city of Rome, just as you agree with me. I do believe the symbolism stops at the identification of this entity as a "city." The symbolism has to do with obscuring the identity of the city, rather than with denying it *is* a city!

    Babylon is therefore called a "Mystery" because God does not want John to divulge the actual name of Rome. That would appear seditious, as if John was calling Rome an "abomination" in the very hearing of the Romans!

    So the identity of Harlot Babylon as "Rome" was covered up, so as to not appear to be insulting Rome. This was, rather, a judgment of God upon the ways of Rome, which of course God had every right to do as God and Creator.

    Because this identification of Harlot Babylon as Rome was covered up, John was given other symbolism to identify it clearly, for those who were believers. The identification of the "7 hills" makes it plain, since Rome was known to be a 7 hilled city. And the identification, further, of these 7 hills as symbols of "kings" even more identifies this city as Rome, because for Jewish believers in particular, there had been 7 kingdoms leading up to Rome. Rome was the 6th kingdom, preceding the coming kingdom of Antichrist.

    The very name used of the city, "Babylon," further indicates this was Rome. It also is a kind of mysterious designation, but known by Jewish believers. In Dan 7, there would be 4 kingdoms, beginning with Babylon, and leading to Rome, as the final kingdom, leading to Antichrist. By calling this city "Babylon" we have reference to the sequence of kingdoms leading to the city of Rome. "Babylon," therefore, is being used as a symbol for the city of Rome. And it nevertheless continues to disguise, for the Romans, that "Babylon" refers to Rome!

    Beyond this, there is no question that God has made the city of Rome the final "king" in the present age, leading up to the kingdom of Antichrist. Daniel indicated that Rome was a "4th Beast," out of which would emerge both Antichrist and his coalition of 7 kings and 10 nations. And so, Rome has continued to exert authority all through the present age.

    Rome seems to have suffered a "mortal wound" in 476 AD, when barbarians overcame the city. But the city survived, and was reestablished as the heart of the future Holy Roman Empire. The city survived!

    Furthermore, the Eastern Roman Empire continued in Constantinople, even as Rome was being defeated by the barbarians. So, the Kingdom of Rome never fully went away. It only suffered a "mortal wound." I don't know if this is the "fatal wound" of the Beast, mentioned in Rev 13, or not? But it fits the history anyway.

    Dan 2 and 7 indicates that this 4th Kingdom would split into 10. And as we've seen in history, the imperial status of the Roman Empire has evolved and survived in history as the Holy Roman Empire. And that Empire has, in recent centuries, come to an end. What that appears to mean is that the Roman Kingdom has now split into its 10 members. Who these members are is a matter of conjecture because we don't yet have the Antichrist himself. But this is following the pattern we see in Dan 2 and 7.

    It is important to note that the book of Revelation focuses on the city of Rome because it is not only applicable to the time in which Jesus lived, during the ancient Roman Empire, but it is also applicable to today. It has, in fact, applied all down through history because in accord with biblical prophecy Rome has never really gone away as a royal tradition.

    It's imperial tradition has continued all down through history, in both East and West, and we can easily see that a number of countries have, at one time or another, carried that imperial tradition. A couple of the most obvious countries so identified would be Italy, France, and Germany. But we could add many others, both East and West.

    So the book of Revelation, in identifying this city as Rome, has a very important application to Christians all down through history. And the lesson is clear: We must avoid the corruptions of ancient paganism, which came with the Roman Imperial Tradition. Instead, we must maintain the Christian use of these forms, as long as we can. Final judgment will ultimately come!

    The ultimate "abomination" associated with the "harlotry" of Rome is its pagan religion. Emperor worship, and the worship of idols, with their ungodly lifestyles, is what the point of the prophecy was--we, as Christians, are to avoid them! They are "abominations!"

    And with the rise of "Christian Rome," we still have the internal corruption associated with Roman secularism. It is the danger of Christian apostasy, returning Christians to pagan corruption and to compromise with these ancient forms of immorality and carnality. We are, I believe, looking not just at the city, but also at what the city represented in its ancient pagan form. It was pagan and apostate Religion! Christians were to "flee" from it!

  2. #47
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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Jacob will lose his strength Jeremiah 30:7, Isaiah 17:4-6

    Jacob/Israel, the father of the twelve tribes of Israel. We know of the visible entity of the State of Israel and the other Jewish people scattered around the world. But of the other ten tribes, who were taken out of the holy Land and dispersed in circa 722 -717BCE, we cannot be certain of who or where they are now. This is as God wanted it to be. 1 Kings 12:24, Deuteronomy 4:27, Ezekiel 34:5
    However, careful research of the historical record, archaeological evidence, confirms that they travelled to and settled in what is now the Western nations. The majority seem to be in Europe, North America and also Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Who the ‘Lost Tribes’ are now seems very much related to the Christian nations. Acts 26:7
    Therefore this disastrous event that will cause their loss of strength will affect all of them.

    Isaiah 30:25-28 tells us that ‘on the Day fortresses fall’, the sun will explode out a huge coronal mass ejection, which will cause the literal and complete fulfilment of all the prophecies about the forthcoming ‘devouring fire, that sieves out the nations for destruction’. Habakkuk 3:12, Joel 2:6, Isaiah 34:1-4
    Many prophecies say how all the world’s military powers will be destroyed and wiped out on this great Day of the Lord’s wrath. Hosea 2:18, Amos 5:9, Jeremiah 50:27

    Jeremiah 50:22-25 The sound of war and destruction is heard in the land. See how the hammer of the whole world is shattered and broken, how Babylon has become a thing of horror among the nations! They are trapped and punished because they challenged God. The Lord opens His armoury and brings out His weapons of wrath, this is His work to do in the land of those who deny Him. Deut. 32:22

    Isaiah 18:1-7 Go swiftly My messengers to a distant land, a land of many rivers, to a people tall and smooth skinned; a nation strong and aggressive, dreaded by all the world. All the peoples of the earth will see the sign and hear the trumpet call for them. The Lord will wait and watch from His dwelling place, then when the ‘fruit is ripe’, the pruning will happen and ‘all the unwanted shoots and branches’, will be removed and burnt. [Rev. 14:14-16] Their land will be left to the wild birds and animals.
    At that time, tribute will be brought by those people to the Lord. They will bring it to the place where the Name of the Lord of heavens armies dwells, to Mt Zion.

    Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.

    The United States of America, is a land of many rivers, across the Sea of Aethiopia and is the modern policeman of the world and is now a Babylon type nation. These tall and smooth skinned people challenge God with laws that refute the Commandments and atheist teaching, such as evolution. They are strong and aggressive and their power is feared by every nation of the world.
    God is watching them and at the right time, He will open His armory and destroy their strength by His terrible judgement of fire. The whole country will become virtually depopulated and the survivors will bring tribute to the Lord, in Jerusalem.
    Ref: logostelos.info

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Greetings DD, it is symbolism, but it actually is called THAT Great City, not a Great City. That as in a coded reference to Wickedness. It would have been Dangerous to say the World is going to be judged and destroyed by God, that would have angered the Romans. But when the word Babylon was used, they were just amused, it was basically a "Dead City" anyway. Thus it was used as a code word. The Harlot was a way to speak about Romes false gods and all false gods/religions being judged. The Waters where she sits is indeed worldwide.

    As per Babylon and the Merchants, ONE HOUR = 42 Months. The Kings rule ONE HOUR { 42 months } with the Beast. The Plagues that destroy the COMMERCE is just the Seal, TRumpet and Vial Judgments, of course they are going to destroy the Commerce, at least 3 Billion people die, all the grasses are burned and a 1/3 of the trees are burned.

    People weave these ideas together about Islam or the RCC and just run with it, even though neither one fits in total.
    In your reply, I don't see your ideas as properly dealing with the actual text which describes her as an actual location within the world that loses commerce, rather than the whole world. How do you interpret the following:
    In one hour your doom has come!’ 11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore
    “Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’


    When the world is being destroyed, the last thing people worry about is sea trade. This location is specifically related to the loss of sea trade from a major world trader, Europe and the USA are the biggest importers, it has to be one of them if the merchants of the world are so concerned.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    In your reply, I don't see your ideas as properly dealing with the actual text which describes her as an actual location within the world that loses commerce, rather than the whole world. How do you interpret the following:
    In one hour your doom has come!’ 11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore
    “Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’


    When the world is being destroyed, the last thing people worry about is sea trade. This location is specifically related to the loss of sea trade from a major world trader, Europe and the USA are the biggest importers, it has to be one of them if the merchants of the world are so concerned.
    The Beast RIDES the Harlot

    Rev. 17 is the Harlot Religions being Judged, the 10 Kings destroy her. She is Described with Four Descriptors, one of which is Babylon {Code for Satan's Kingdom on earth}.

    Rev. chapter 18 is Babylon {WORLD} getting her Judgment. I will deal with a few verses to give the flavor of the chapter as I see it.

    Rev. 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

    {{{ The Dark Ruler Satan has been cast down to earth, thus Babylon {WORLD} is now a habitation of Devils, Apollyon is loosed from the Pit and he now inhabits the earth also, the NATIONS have fornicated with Satan and thus are due God's Wrath. The Merchants of the EARTH/WORLD became rich via evil practices. }}}

    4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    {{{ This I see as God calling the Jews who REPENTED {the 1/3} to Flee Judea, or to come out of Babylon, lest they partake in the Plagues that are about to fall on her. }}}

    5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    {{{ The Bowls of God's Wrath are overflowing against Mankind !! So God is about to reward the world with His Wrath of the Seals, Trumpets and Vials. This evil world doesn't understand she's a WIDOW {Satan has been cast down}, God's Judgment is nigh !! Her JUDGMENT will come in ONE DAY which means the Day of the Lord {DOTL} which is a 3.5 year period of God's Judgment, this also matches the ONE HOUR in verse 10 as we will see below. Notice, DEATH, MOURNING & FAMINE come upon her and she will be burned with FIRE !! These all match the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Plagues of God. }}}

    9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

    These Kings cry and lament for Babylon when she burns, but they hated the Harlot !! Babylon Judgment lasts ONE HOUR which according to Rev. 17:12 is the same amount of time that the Kings serve with the Beast {ONE HOUR}, ths we understand it means 42 Months, just like the Day of the Lord means 42 months {3.5 years}.

    So the Merchants of the Earth WEEP & MOURN because no one buys their MERCHANDISE anymore. So what does this mean ? We can stop here, not use in going any further, we get the gist of the chapter here, the Merchants are mourning because the Commerce has been destroyed by these Plagues of God, but what are these Plagues in reality ?

    Well, the First Four Seals release the Anti-Christ who goes forth Conquering, he kills 1.5 to 2 billion people, and we also have Famine and Sickness. The sixth seal hits and we know what that does. God Seals the 144,000 which I see as the Jews who Flee Judea, before He brings the Trumpet Judgments !! The Trumpet Judgments bring fires that burn all the grasses and 1/3 of all the trees !! {BURNING/FIRE/SMOKE}. Then we see 1/3 of all the Seas turns to blood, 1/3 of the Sea Creatures die {SHRIMP/FISH}, 1/3 of all the Drinking Waters are poisoned, then the sun, moon and stars are DARKENED by 1/3 {probably smoke}.

    Of course then we get the THREE WOES, the first is a Demonic horde from the pit. The 2nd Woe is an Angelic Army that slays 1.5 Billion {1/4 of all mankind}, and finally the 3rd Woe which is ALL 7 Vials combined.

    So in the end, the ONE HOUR and the ONE DAY references means 42 months, and we understand the Seal, Trumpet ad Vial Judgments last 42 months. So Babylon {WHOLE WORLD} gets hit with these Plagues. Gd is not punishing ONE CITY, He is bringing Plagues on all mankind who serve Satan !!

    This Destroys the COMMERCE no doubt.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Revman said: So in the end, the ONE HOUR and the ONE DAY references means 42 months, and we understand the Seal, Trumpet ad Vial Judgments last 42 months. So Babylon {WHOLE WORLD} gets hit with these Plagues. Gd is not punishing ONE CITY, He is bringing Plagues on all mankind who serve Satan !! Quote

    You miss the many prophesies that plainly state that the terrible Day of the Lord will be a single day event. Mixing up the DoL with the Great Tribulation is error and just leads to confusion of the end times events. Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 26:5-8, Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 47:9, Psalms 50:1, +

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Revman said: So in the end, the ONE HOUR and the ONE DAY references means 42 months, and we understand the Seal, Trumpet ad Vial Judgments last 42 months. So Babylon {WHOLE WORLD} gets hit with these Plagues. Gd is not punishing ONE CITY, He is bringing Plagues on all mankind who serve Satan !! Quote

    You miss the many prophesies that plainly state that the terrible Day of the Lord will be a single day event. Mixing up the DoL with the Great Tribulation is error and just leads to confusion of the end times events. Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 26:5-8, Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 47:9, Psalms 50:1, +
    No, you miss it brother. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance is A DAY when His Wrath starts, now research and read, nowhere in the bible does it say it lasts ONE DAY, that is just the way you and a few others see it, the vast majority of Christendom understands it to be a longer period of time. Of course if you understood the raptures timing that might help you see it better brother.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    No, you miss it brother. The Day of the Lord's Vengeance is A DAY when His Wrath starts, now research and read, nowhere in the bible does it say it lasts ONE DAY, that is just the way you and a few others see it, the vast majority of Christendom understands it to be a longer period of time. Of course if you understood the raptures timing that might help you see it better brother.
    As there is no 'rapture to heaven' of the Church anywhere to be found in the Bible and the timing of that fable is a matter of great controversy among the deceived, then I will never see your beliefs.

    Your assertion that 'the vast majority if Christians see the Day of the Lord as more than a day', is just a wild guess. Most people read 'day' as just that.
    When it is known what the Lord will use on that Day, then it is understood how it must last for only 24 hours, or nothing would survive. The scriptures I provided; did you actually read them?, DO make it clear that the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will be for one literal day, one rotation of the earth.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    As there is no 'rapture to heaven' of the Church anywhere to be found in the Bible and the timing of that fable is a matter of great controversy among the deceived, then I will never see your beliefs.

    Your assertion that 'the vast majority if Christians see the Day of the Lord as more than a day', is just a wild guess. Most people read 'day' as just that.
    When it is known what the Lord will use on that Day, then it is understood how it must last for only 24 hours, or nothing would survive. The scriptures I provided; did you actually read them?, DO make it clear that the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will be for one literal day, one rotation of the earth.
    The Day of the Lord being understood to be more than a day by the vast Majority of Christendom is a fact. You not understanding the Rapture's timing is on you, again, the vast majority of Christendom understands it.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Day of the Lord being understood to be more than a day by the vast Majority of Christendom is a fact. You not understanding the Rapture's timing is on you, again, the vast majority of Christendom understands it.
    Love to make great assertions, don't you?
    I am well aware that there is no worldwide study made of these questions among Christians, so your beliefs in these matters are actually just that of a single individual.

    However, I do agree that the majority of Christians are deceived in some way, or they just discount the entire Prophetic Word, which is further sin.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Love to make great assertions, don't you?
    I am well aware that there is no worldwide study made of these questions among Christians, so your beliefs in these matters are actually just that of a single individual.

    However, I do agree that the majority of Christians are deceived in some way, or they just discount the entire Prophetic Word, which is further sin.
    Next time, try ANSWERING the whole post, it's about Babylon, we know what you believe on the Rapture and what I believe, so why be redundant on every post ? I mean it just wasted both of our time didn't it ?

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Day of the Lord being understood to be more than a day by the vast Majority of Christendom is a fact. You not understanding the Rapture's timing is on you, again, the vast majority of Christendom understands it.
    Do you mean among American Christians?
    Most Christians seem to think the Day of the Lord is a Day or a Millennium.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Day of the Lord being understood to be more than a day by the vast Majority of Christendom is a fact. You not understanding the Rapture's timing is on you, again, the vast majority of Christendom understands it.
    NOT. I understand it as one day and there are many like me. I don't see much strength in the extended DOTL argument, that view is introduced to support another agenda which doesn't fit in with a literal day of the Lord.

    Normally those that like to spread day of the Lord events into more than one event have to take that extended DOTL stance. However to overlap many dramatic events into the one day is normally the best fit in context.

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    Re: Thirteen Reasons Why America is Mystery Babylon

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    NOT. I understand it as one day and there are many like me. I don't see much strength in the extended DOTL argument, that view is introduced to support another agenda which doesn't fit in with a literal day of the Lord.

    Normally those that like to spread day of the Lord events into more than one event have to take that extended DOTL stance. However to overlap many dramatic events into the one day is normally the best fit in context.
    I have been working in a word study of YOWM for about 2 Months, got halfway and put it aside, so yesterday I was inspired to finish it up and post a thread on YOWM, a word study so to speak on the Day of the Lord and the 7 Days of Creation. Explaining why DAY doesn't always mean DAY.

    I Blogged this, and I will just do a New Thread here, no use placing it here, it goes off track too much.

    Do you mean among American Christians?
    Most Christians seem to think the Day of the Lord is a Day or a Millennium.
    Or a Period of Wrath, or both a Period of Wrath and a 1000 year rule combined.

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