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Thread: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

  1. #16

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by vinsight4u8 View Post
    How can any saints get redeemed until chapter 19 of Rev., when the wife puts on righteousness?
    When we see Him is when we will be like Him.
    Revelation 19 describes the event where Jesus comes again with His righteous ones---the saints, who will have been with Him for the duration of the Great Tribulation unfolding on Earth. We will already have been changed into our new bodies and been with Him, our Bridegroom, for seven years by that time.

  2. #17

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    Will the two witnesses not be part of the Body of Christ?
    As two prophets of God, set aside for a specialized purpose outside of the Church Age, they will proclaim Christ to Israel.

  3. #18
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    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Gabriel and Michael - the two witnesses


    I know your reading the title and saying no way, angels?? However they are angels at a point but manifest in the flesh to witness upon the earth in the last days.

    Example of angels manifesting in the flesh

    Of course the clearest example is in Genesis when the two angels come to earth manifested in the flesh to warn Lot. We see description of physical body parts and even eating.

    Ge 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

    Ge 19:2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

    Ge 19:3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

    Now we still need to deal with the fact that these angels if indeed indwelt flesh or manifested in the flesh were able to die. Note that angels never die as they are spirits rather only the flesh they indwell.


    Gabriel, Michael the two standing before God

    We are told that there are 7 angels of the 7 churches which are stars and candlesticks (note Jesus refers to himself as the bright and morning star).

    Re 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

    We see that there are only two candlesticks standing and two prophets

    Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    Re 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

    Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

    Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

    Lu 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to show thee these glad tidings.

    Da 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:


    These two prophets are no ordinary prophets as they can do miraculous things such as call fire to devour their enemies, prevent rain, turn water into blood, and have power over all plagues. No prophet himself had the power to do such things rather the power was God's.

  4. #19

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperaux View Post
    As two prophets of God, set aside for a specialized purpose outside of the Church Age, they will proclaim Christ to Israel.
    Revelation says more than just Israel...

    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

  5. #20

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by John 8:32 View Post
    Revelation says more than just Israel...

    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Tribulation is the time of Jacob's trouble, with God finishing up His dealings with Israel. All others on earth at that time are unbelievers, but Israel is God's focus. Nowhere in scripture are people called 'His people' or 'the righteous' or the Church, for they are not here. Everyone is referred to as simply those who dwell on the earth.

    The two witnesses bring torment to the wicked who refuse their life-giving message.

  6. #21

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    These two prophets are no ordinary prophets as they can do miraculous things such as call fire to devour their enemies, prevent rain, turn water into blood, and have power over all plagues. No prophet himself had the power to do such things rather the power was God's.

    Elijah, and even Elisha were given tremendous power to do such things. If God can give His power to Elijah, He can do so to the two witnesses, without us having to dream up that they are somehow two angels.

  7. #22

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses

    Rev.3
    v22
    Behold I will cast her...into great tribulation...
    v23
    And...all the churches shall know...

    KJV

  8. #23

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperaux View Post
    Revelation 19 describes the event where Jesus comes again with His righteous ones---the saints, who will have been with Him for the duration of the Great Tribulation unfolding on Earth. We will already have been changed into our new bodies and been with Him, our Bridegroom, for seven years by that time.

    Our change takes place just a bit (days?) before Armageddon. We are not redeemed until the 7th trumpet time. This is when it will be time to reward the saints. Jesus can't raise the just until it is time to judge the just at the 7th trumpet.

    Here is when the saints get their change.

    KJV
    Rev. 19
    v8
    And to her was granted...the righteousness of saints.

    -------------------------

    Galatians 5
    v5
    For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    1 Corinthians 15
    v53
    For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    Psalms 17
    v15
    As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

    3 John 3
    v2
    ...we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him....

  9. #24

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperaux View Post
    Revelation 19 describes the event where Jesus comes again with His righteous ones---the saints, who will have been with Him for the duration of the Great Tribulation unfolding on Earth. We will already have been changed into our new bodies and been with Him, our Bridegroom, for seven years by that time.
    Do you agree that the laid out properly to us sequence of events starts in 19:1? This would mean the mystery, Babylon city is done slaying the saints before she can put on righteouness at His coming as to when we shall be like Him?

    19:1
    And after these things...
    v2
    ...he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth...
    v7
    ...the marriage of the Lamb is come...
    v8
    ....arrayed...the righteousness of saints.

    -----------------
    Why is this the 7th trumpet time?

    Rev. 11:18
    And the nations were angry....

    /The nations so far are to blame for the havoc on the earth.
    God has not started to bring any of the vials of His wrath on the people yet.

    ...time of the dead...reward unto thy servants...
    v18

    Luke 14:14
    ...recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

    Daniel 12:13
    ...stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

  10. #25

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses

    In Rev. the angels of the seven churches led the churches where the letters were sent.

    The two witnesses will be slain and get life from God in themselves. Angels do not die, nor do they need to be given eternal life. The two witnesses seem to be Enoch and Elijah that come back to finish their testimony.

    Just as in Zechariah chapter 4 - such symbols showed that Zerubabbel would finish his job.
    The job to build the holy temple to God - he would defeat that great mountain.

  11. #26
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    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperaux View Post
    Elijah, and even Elisha were given tremendous power to do such things. If God can give His power to Elijah, He can do so to the two witnesses, without us having to dream up that they are somehow two angels.
    So the Elijah and Elisha are the two olive trees which stand before God?

    Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
    Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

    How come Zechariah does not recognize them?


    Again I doubt Zechariah and Elisha were in such prominence over above other prophets that they rise to the level of 2 olive tress before God's throne.


    Zec 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
    Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

    Re 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
    Re 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

    Re 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

  12. #27

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So the Elijah and Elisha are the two olive trees which stand before God?
    No. I was talking about prophets.

  13. #28

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperaux View Post
    As two prophets of God, set aside for a specialized purpose outside of the Church Age, they will proclaim Christ to Israel.
    So, these two witnesses and all who would come to Christ through their testimony, would keep their mortal corruptible bodies?

    As they would not be in Christ (for the dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive) what happens to them when they are dead?

  14. #29

    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    So, these two witnesses and all who would come to Christ through their testimony, would keep their mortal corruptible bodies?

    As they would not be in Christ (for the dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive) what happens to them when they are dead?
    As I believe that these two prophets are Enoch and Elijah, who have never physically experienced death, these witnesses will suffer death at the end of their called ministry, see Jesus Christ and the Bride, and then return in their own resurrection and finally ascend to the Father like Jesus did. The dead in Christ would have already experienced their transformation a few years before this event.

    Revelation 11:11-12
    11 But after three and a half days, God breathed life into them, and they stood up! Terror struck all who were staring at them. 12 Then a loud voice from heaven called to the two prophets, “Come up here!” And they rose to heaven in a cloud as their enemies watched.

  15. #30
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    Re: Revelation 11- Two Witnesses-moved from BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperaux View Post
    As I believe that these two prophets are Enoch and Elijah, who have never physically experienced death, these witnesses will suffer death at the end of their called ministry, see Jesus Christ and the Bride, and then return in their own resurrection and finally ascend to the Father like Jesus did. The dead in Christ would have already experienced their transformation a few years before this event.
    First off, if they never died how can they be in heaven? and secondly with what body would they retain?

    So we are to believe these two born of the earth and sinful some how shed their bodies without dying and go to heaven and stand by God until they are sent back down into their bodies and die

    Rather, the seven candlesticks were from the foundation of the world and the two olive trees standing before God did not just appear when Elijiah and Elisha were taken up to heaven but they too were from the beginning.

    Again the two olive trees did not just start standing before God upon the taking up of these two prophets.

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