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Thread: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still stand?

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    Question Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still stand?

    If you don't hold to a pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr (millennium kingdom) stand?

    Some people believe there is a future secret 'rapture' (snatching up) of believers, followed by 7 years of 'Great Tribulation', a period of time which they say (or most say) is the 'wrath of God'. This is to be followed by a literal 1,000 years when the earth is ruled by Christ. And then, they say he returns again (His second coming) to rule for all eternity on a new earth, even though Christ has already been ruling on earth for that 1,000 years.

    Wouldn't this be 3 'second' comings?
    1- the 'rapture'
    2- to rule and reign for the 1,000 year period
    3- the time when he actually 'returns' to reign forever

    For these beliefs to continue to stand, doesn't one have to be one (or both) of the 2 below?
    1- a pre-trib rapture proponent
    2- a dispensation adherent

    Can one depart from the pre-trib rapture belief, and still be a dispensationist?

    Can the two be separated, but one still stand?

    Can one believe in a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ and NOT be a dispensationalist?

    Even if one departs from the pre-trib rapture belief, wouldn't this STILL mean 2 more second comings of Christ -- one 'second coming' for the 1,000 year reign, then another 'second coming' for his 'forever' reign?
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Not necessarily, Christ can come back for the 1000 year reign in which afterwards The Father comes also and the new Jerusalem with Him.

    Christ and God are One and the Same but hmmm lol gotta watch my wording here...they are One and the Same but 2 different vessels.

    Christ is of the Father, but even though they are One and the Same theres 2 of them.

    Christ rose and departed to heaven and will return from the heaven, 1000 years will pass and those here with Him will bear children and different people will do different things during that time, everyone will have thier role during that time and noone will perish.
    At the end of the 1000 years satan will be let loose and some of the offspring will be taken with him and they will confront the area in which Christ is, God will then immediatly end everything and at that time He also will be amongst us.

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlad22 View Post
    Not necessarily, Christ can come back for the 1000 year reign in which afterwards The Father comes also and the new Jerusalem with Him.

    Christ and God are One and the Same but hmmm lol gotta watch my wording here...they are One and the Same but 2 different vessels.

    Christ is of the Father, but even though they are One and the Same theres 2 of them.
    Are you saying that when Christ returns for the so called 1,000 year reign, then THAT is the second coming?
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Yes. lol i find it funny how we cant just say yes or no....thats should be fixed..let your yes be yes and your no be no.

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlad22 View Post
    Yes. lol i find it funny how we cant just say yes or no....thats should be fixed..let your yes be yes and your no be no.
    It is good to explain your answers with scripture.. that is kinda the point of this.
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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Quote Originally Posted by Amos_with_goats View Post
    It is good to explain your answers with scripture.. that is kinda the point of this.
    Ok but i dont play fair, my answer is explained in Revelation. keke...if anyone wants me to explain my answer start reading from the top *thumbs up*

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggindeeper View Post
    Can one depart from the pre-trib rapture belief, and still be a dispensationist?
    What do you mean by the word "dispensationalist"

    I believe in a future 3.5 year period that is completed at the second coming/resurrection. Followed by the millenial reign.

    Other than believing in a 3.5 year period as opposed to a 7 year period, I have the standard post-trib premill view.

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Well Durban, does that mean in your view that the 'second coming' happens at the start of the millennial reign? Or, do you see 2 'second comings'?
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Hi Diggin

    If you don't hold to a pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr (millennium kingdom) stand?
    They dont for me.

    Jesus comes a second time to reap those who have beieved the Gospel. Father is waiting patiently for the Gospel to be preached in all its fullness to all nations, before he sends his Son in Judgment. God waited patiently for the ark to be built, before he sent the flood that destroyed everyone that wasnt on the ark.
    In the same way God is waiting patiently today, for all to come to repentance, because he has fixed a day when he will send his Son in judgment, to reap the righteous into the place that Jesus has prepared for those that believe and love him.

    For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
    7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
    8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
    9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
    10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggindeeper View Post
    Well Durban, does that mean in your view that the 'second coming' happens at the start of the millennial reign? Or, do you see 2 'second comings'?
    What 2 comings?

    If by His birth/death and resurrection you mean 1 and the 2nd being His return?

    What 2 comings do you refer?

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlad22 View Post
    What 2 comings?

    If by His birth/death and resurrection you mean 1 and the 2nd being His return?

    What 2 comings do you refer?

    Well, Jesus himself said things like:


    John 14:3

    And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    Then, in Acts, we find this:

    Acts 1:
    9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

    10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

    11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


    And Paul told us:
    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


    So you see, I only see ONE 'second coming. ONE time, he will return for US. Is that what you believe?
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Jeffweeder, I see it the way you do. There can only be ONE 'second coming'. But there are many who have him returning 2, 3 or more times.
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Hi again Diggin

    I had to be gone for a few days so I never got back to that thread we were in. There was someone else in there whose name I forget. I hope she finds her way in here.
    Do you really think the concept is all that strange seeing as how everything keeps repeating? There is nothing new under the sun and what has been will be again.
    They couldn't see how to fit all of the verses together long ago. Even His disciples asked: Are you now going to restore the kingdom? It seemed to not occur to them that the verses regarding a suffering servant and slaughtered Lamb were talking about two different appearings seperated by some space of time. It wasn't until after He came and went that they understood this better.

    So is it really that far out there to think He may STILL come twice again? Once in the same manner they saw Him go - in the air, and a second time when every eye will see Him, even those who actually pierced Him, and mourn?
    I'm not asking if you personally can believe it. I am just asking if you can see the concept of things strangely repeating.

    They couldn't fit the verses together either about how He could possibly come from three seperate locations but afterwards, they saw that He DID fulfill this through His birth in Bethlehem, His hiding in Egypt, and His return to Nazareth.
    I have read verses that say He will come in the air and like a thief in the night, but also in such a way that every eye will see Him, and then also from the east - Bozrah, with His robes stained red. This seems to be from...three seperate places once again.

    There are also verses that can't seem to be fit together in the same event regarding the removal of the righteous but also the removal of the unbelieving. One verse may appear to say it is the righteous who will be removed and then another appears to say it is the unrighteous who will be removed. And in Rev., there seem to be two seperate reapings, one by Jesus to gather and one by an angel to gather for burning.

    It seems odd to me that we can't take the benefit of reading about His coming in the past to see there is something in all these verses that seems to mirror how it all happened - but in the future. Yes, it seems illogical in a sense and impossible in a sense, that He could make the same things happen again, but He has been doing it over and over from the beginning. Nothing is impossible with Him. I might not be able to see exactly how He will do it all, but neither could they see how He would do it when He came in the flesh, but He did. Three seperate places - makes perfect sense NOW - and two different appearings, one yet future.

    I don't know - I honestly don't think I am proposing some way-out-there lunacy. I have seen how He makes everything to repeat and repeat.
    But if this isn't how it will happen, it does not matter as long as I trust Him and love Him with all my being. That is the really true and important thing that I CAN be completely sure of.

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Perhaps the writer of Hebrews wrote it best apropos ONE second coming of Christ:

    Heb. 8
    24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
    25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
    26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
    27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
    28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
    Grace and peace,

    Billy-brown 2


    I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

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    Re: Without pre-trib rapture/dispensation belief, can the 7 yr trib/1,000 yr still st

    Quote Originally Posted by awestruckchild View Post
    Hi again Diggin

    I had to be gone for a few days so I never got back to that thread we were in. There was someone else in there whose name I forget. I hope she finds her way in here.
    Do you really think the concept is all that strange seeing as how everything keeps repeating? There is nothing new under the sun and what has been will be again.
    They couldn't see how to fit all of the verses together long ago. Even His disciples asked: Are you now going to restore the kingdom? It seemed to not occur to them that the verses regarding a suffering servant and slaughtered Lamb were talking about two different appearings seperated by some space of time. It wasn't until after He came and went that they understood this better.

    So is it really that far out there to think He may STILL come twice again? Once in the same manner they saw Him go - in the air, and a second time when every eye will see Him, even those who actually pierced Him, and mourn?
    I'm not asking if you personally can believe it. I am just asking if you can see the concept of things strangely repeating.

    They couldn't fit the verses together either about how He could possibly come from three seperate locations but afterwards, they saw that He DID fulfill this through His birth in Bethlehem, His hiding in Egypt, and His return to Nazareth.
    I have read verses that say He will come in the air and like a thief in the night, but also in such a way that every eye will see Him, and then also from the east - Bozrah, with His robes stained red. This seems to be from...three seperate places once again.

    There are also verses that can't seem to be fit together in the same event regarding the removal of the righteous but also the removal of the unbelieving. One verse may appear to say it is the righteous who will be removed and then another appears to say it is the unrighteous who will be removed. And in Rev., there seem to be two seperate reapings, one by Jesus to gather and one by an angel to gather for burning.

    It seems odd to me that we can't take the benefit of reading about His coming in the past to see there is something in all these verses that seems to mirror how it all happened - but in the future. Yes, it seems illogical in a sense and impossible in a sense, that He could make the same things happen again, but He has been doing it over and over from the beginning. Nothing is impossible with Him. I might not be able to see exactly how He will do it all, but neither could they see how He would do it when He came in the flesh, but He did. Three seperate places - makes perfect sense NOW - and two different appearings, one yet future.

    I don't know - I honestly don't think I am proposing some way-out-there lunacy. I have seen how He makes everything to repeat and repeat.
    But if this isn't how it will happen, it does not matter as long as I trust Him and love Him with all my being. That is the really true and important thing that I CAN be completely sure of.


    1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

    Here's one problem right here with your theory. If the above occurs 7 years prior to the second second coming, then does that mean verse 17 happens twice? Notice this part...Then we which are alive and remain. What about when Christ returns yet again after this alleged coming seven years prior? Wouldn't there still be some who are alive and remaining, such as those who allegedly get saved during the 7 year trib, but were not saved prior to that? Do these then too get to be caught up in the clouds as well, when Jesus returns at the second second coming? Then we have to back up a bit. If verse 17 gets to happen twice, then so does verse 16, especially this part...and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

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