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Thread: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectPeter View Post
    Only those who subscribe to Greek mythology can understand? Interesting again but way, way, out there somewhere. Those entities were gods and the like and I have a very strong suspicion that they didn't use Greek gods and underlings to make a point about the return of Christ and the day God judges the earth.
    You have to put yourself in the time Revelation was written. Though Greek mythology is a college course of study in our time, it was elementary school stuff for them. John is using an image from Greek mythology, not because he intends to mix Pagan myths with the Bible, but because the image was a well-known common image to his readers. And John isn't talking about the actual Abbadon or Apollyon; it's the concept behind these words that serves to make his point.

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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by BroRog View Post
    You have to put yourself in the time Revelation was written. Though Greek mythology is a college course of study in our time, it was elementary school stuff for them. John is using an image from Greek mythology, not because he intends to mix Pagan myths with the Bible, but because the image was a well-known common image to his readers. And John isn't talking about the actual Abbadon or Apollyon; it's the concept behind these words that serves to make his point.
    Uh... ya'll go right ahead on.


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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProjectPeter View Post
    Uh... ya'll go right ahead on.
    Thanks for the encouragement, but honestly, I find the book of Revelation almost impenetrable. So what I say about the Book of Revelation should be taken with a bit of salt. My current understanding of this passage is colored by recent events, namely, the suicide bombers. If it could be said that someone worships the god of destruction, I would think it could be said of a suicide bomber. Destruction seems to be the only purpose a suicide bomber serves. He isn't asking for anything in exchange; he has no military agenda; he seek no material goods; he doesn't ask for peace, prosperity, or happiness for himself or his family.

    So then, if it is true that the locusts represent Mohammedanism, then I can see how it could be said that some of them, the suicide bombers and those who handle them, have began to worship the god of destruction.

  4. #34
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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by BroRog View Post
    Thanks for the encouragement, but honestly, I find the book of Revelation almost impenetrable. So what I say about the Book of Revelation should be taken with a bit of salt. My current understanding of this passage is colored by recent events, namely, the suicide bombers. If it could be said that someone worships the god of destruction, I would think it could be said of a suicide bomber. Destruction seems to be the only purpose a suicide bomber serves. He isn't asking for anything in exchange; he has no military agenda; he seek no material goods; he doesn't ask for peace, prosperity, or happiness for himself or his family.

    So then, if it is true that the locusts represent Mohammedanism, then I can see how it could be said that some of them, the suicide bombers and those who handle them, have began to worship the god of destruction.
    "In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them"

    Apollyon is also mentioned as Abaddon in hebrew, his name is english is Hell. ("A place of destruction", "The Destroyer", "Depths of Hell)

  5. #35
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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Many, such as myself, hold that he is a servant, entrusted to reign over the pit and its fearsome denizens, which, in turn, exist for the sole purpose of torturing condemned angels.

    He is a good'n rather than a bad'n.

    (okay, I'm outta here)

  6. #36
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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mighty Sword View Post
    I never said it was a "fallen angel" scripture says "a star" fell from heaven, no one ever stated it was "fallen angel". Thank you.



    Well then, since no one else ever stated that, then I will, lol. I happen to think there's a good chance it is a fallen angel. Here's what the text says.

    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    If one were to see a falling star at night, it's usually fast as lightning, and then the event is over, or at least not visible to the naked eye anymore after about a split second or two.

    So now if we go back to the Greek, this is what we have for 'fall'...'pipto'. This word of course is used in quite a few places. But one place that it's used, it's rather interesting IMO.

    Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall(pipto) from heaven.

    And that's exactly how falling stars are described..fast as lightning when they fall. Or at least that's how we Texan's describe them.

    Maybe it's just a coincidence and all, but what are the chances of these verses not being related, since both have an angel falling from heaven? In one passage it states that it is indeed satan. In the other passage, the context is dealing with the bottomless pit, which is about as related to satan as one can get.

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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Well then, since no one else ever stated that, then I will, lol. I happen to think there's a good chance it is a fallen angel. Here's what the text says.

    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    If one were to see a falling star at night, it's usually fast as lightning, and then the event is over, or at least not visible to the naked eye anymore after about a split second or two.

    So now if we go back to the Greek, this is what we have for 'fall'...'pipto'. This word of course is used in quite a few places. But one place that it's used, it's rather interesting IMO.

    Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall(pipto) from heaven.

    And that's exactly how falling stars are described..fast as lightning when they fall. Or at least that's how we Texan's describe them.

    Maybe it's just a coincidence and all, but what are the chances of these verses not being related, since both have an angel falling from heaven? In one passage it states that it is indeed satan. In the other passage, the context is dealing with the bottomless pit, which is about as related to satan as one can get.
    The angels are not thrown out of heaven yet, this event is the first woe, third woe they are, also the angel with the keys to the bottomless pit is mentioned twice once here and once when Satan is bound in the pit.

    The reason Christ sees what you mentioned is because Christ sees the invisible things, the future things also, as we also do, knowing that He will come and raise us to Him, incorruptible, we see through the Holy Spirit that promise, not recieving as of yet but knowing through Him.
    Christ saw Satan thrown out of heaven, this is what Christ saw :
    Revelation 12:7-12

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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlad22 View Post
    The angels are not thrown out of heaven yet, this event is the first woe, third woe they are, also the angel with the keys to the bottomless pit is mentioned twice once here and once when Satan is bound in the pit.

    The reason Christ sees what you mentioned is because Christ sees the invisible things, the future things also, as we also do, knowing that He will come and raise us to Him, incorruptible, we see through the Holy Spirit that promise, not recieving as of yet but knowing through Him.
    Christ saw Satan thrown out of heaven, this is what Christ saw :
    Revelation 12:7-12


    I hear what you're saying. But keep in mind, Jesus was also a prophet. Luke 10:18 could simply have been a prophecy that was yet to be fulfilled. I'm basically saying that it's a possibility. Not entirely certain tho.

    As far as the two passages you are referring to...the context is not the same in both. So it's entirely reasonable that 2 different angels are in mind here. We know for a fact in REv 20 that the angel is a good angel, since he is seen putting satan away. In Rev 9 tho. opening the pit is not exactly a good thing. Evil is being let loose, not getting shut up like in Rev 20. Almost makes one think Rev 20 occurs before Rev 9.

  9. #39
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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I hear what you're saying. But keep in mind, Jesus was also a prophet. Luke 10:18 could simply have been a prophecy that was yet to be fulfilled. I'm basically saying that it's a possibility. Not entirely certain tho.

    As far as the two passages you are referring to...the context is not the same in both. So it's entirely reasonable that 2 different angels are in mind here. We know for a fact in REv 20 that the angel is a good angel, since he is seen putting satan away. In Rev 9 tho. opening the pit is not exactly a good thing. Evil is being let loose, not getting shut up like in Rev 20. Almost makes one think Rev 20 occurs before Rev 9.
    All men who speak the word of God are prophets, prophecy isnt just about telling the future, but speaking the word of God is speaking the future the present and the past.
    Many of us speak as though prophecy must be claimed with, this will happen here and that will happen here, which is true to an account, but all words spoken of God through man is the Spirit of prophecy for it is the Word of God.

    Indeed, but again, the Apollyon events and the angel we are speaking of is involved in the first "woe" the angels and Satan are not cast out of heaven until the third "woe", the second "woe" happens as the 2 witnesses are resurrected and an earthquake takes place 7,000 are killed in the earthquake in Jerusalem, and the rest give glory to God.Amen!

    Rev 8:13 for the proclamation of woes
    Rev 9:1-12 is the first woe being past
    Rev 11:11-14 is the second woe being past
    Rev 12:7-12 the third woe

    Now if you want even more scripture confirmation on how the third woe is Satan being thrown out of heaven with His angels look in Matthew 24:9 Mark 13:17 and Luke 21:23 and then look at what follows the third woe in Revelation 12:13-17
    If you desire to go even further, look at when the beast of Revelation blasphemies God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. That he is granted to make war with the saints and overcome them.
    Look what Satan does in Rev 12:17

  10. #40

    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Apollyon was just a tool used pre judgement, he was guardian of abbadon, the endless pit. His sole purpose under god was to bring torment to those who did evil across the world and to signal to them their time is marching on, swiftly. Apollyon worked under god, not against god, doing his bidding, as part of the plan to purify the earth and its inhabitants.

    In terms of the Greek connection, just because the public lauded them gods does not mean they all believed themselves to be gods, i believe some of them turned their backs on the state of idolatry that was occuring, and god would have forgiven them as he does man for their trespasses if they were truly repentant, perhaps if Apollyon is the same Apollo of the Greek world, which I strongly believe he is and was, that could have been something he had to go, guard abbadon until the return of the lord in order to repent and purify himself, doing what's right versus what's wrong. Apollo or Apollyon is known as a leader of plagues, and known for being just, that sounds to me the same as the one mentioned in the bible, it says he is the destroyer because he is the destroyer of the wicked, not the followers of Christ, in fact if anything his actions will protect them from harm, not in a way like god himself or Jesus, but as an assist to them.

    I do not feel Apollyon is evil at all, it's all about the wording and usually the more vile people and beings mentioned in the bible are described as such, Apollyon is never referred to in a derogatory sense, why not?

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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Well then, since no one else ever stated that, then I will, lol. I happen to think there's a good chance it is a fallen angel. Here's what the text says.

    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    If one were to see a falling star at night, it's usually fast as lightning, and then the event is over, or at least not visible to the naked eye anymore after about a split second or two.

    So now if we go back to the Greek, this is what we have for 'fall'...'pipto'. This word of course is used in quite a few places. But one place that it's used, it's rather interesting IMO.

    Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall(pipto) from heaven.

    And that's exactly how falling stars are described..fast as lightning when they fall. Or at least that's how we Texan's describe them.

    Maybe it's just a coincidence and all, but what are the chances of these verses not being related, since both have an angel falling from heaven? In one passage it states that it is indeed satan. In the other passage, the context is dealing with the bottomless pit, which is about as related to satan as one can get.
    We also have this...…was it Satan who was given the key to open the pit?

    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

  12. #42
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    Re: Is Abbadon/Apollyon good or bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by pastrepetition View Post
    Apollyon was just a tool used pre judgement, he was guardian of abbadon, the endless pit. His sole purpose under god was to bring torment to those who did evil across the world and to signal to them their time is marching on, swiftly. Apollyon worked under god, not against god, doing his bidding, as part of the plan to purify the earth and its inhabitants.

    I do not feel Apollyon is evil at all, it's all about the wording and usually the more vile people and beings mentioned in the bible are described as such, Apollyon is never referred to in a derogatory sense, why not?
    Very interesting...need to check this. Look at my previous post. Then the angel may in fact be Satan who falls and given the key (at which time he will be bound).

    The phrase "and not open the house" actually means he did. Like saying did you not pay your taxes last year.?

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