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Thread: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

  1. #1

    Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    Let Daniel see one vision as to coming kings, then one as to kingdoms. Daniel 7 is where visions were seen. Notice that the leopard beast was seen first having one head, then yet - had four heads. This means the leopard beast came up from the sea two times in Daniel 7.

    had yet - had also - had even-four heads

    That is the fourth great beast that came up from the sea.

    1st - lion /Babylon's king coming again
    2nd -bear/Medes and Persians kings /Cyrus and Darius
    3rd - leopard - one head - four wings of a fowl/ Alexander the Great
    4th - leopard- had yet - four heads - latter days

    then the second vision - of that night
    Four more beasts (smaller) were seen.
    They represent kingdoms.
    The little horn comes out of the fourth kingdom; but is diverse from the first horns.
    This little horn is noted as "another", so he is not the only little horn in the prophecy. He plucks up the other three little horns.

  2. #2

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    In between the time of the first leopard out of the sea and the second - came the Roman Empire.

    The leopard - with its successive kings -had to rise twice in Daniel 7.
    first - with one head - then all of the Greek kings came
    next came the Roman Empire
    came too - another rising of the leopard. This time Daniel saw it had four heads.
    Just as shown in Daniel 8 - the latter time would come for the goat empire's smaller section. - the four winds areas

  3. #3

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    Daniel 7 has three visions within it.
    The first one was about kings - successive kings to come.
    The second one was about kingdoms.

    huge beasts - great beasts were seen -1st vision
    smaller beasts - were seen - in the 2nd vision
    There was also a third vision.

    The begnning of the chapter refers to "visions" and how Daniel would tell the sum of the matters.

  4. #4
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    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads




    Why would the four beasts of Daniel 7 be a repeat of the four empires of Daniel 2? The view that the four beasts of Daniel 7 are the same exact four kingdoms of empires of Daniel 2 goes back before dispensationalism. John Gill and Adam Clarke in their commentaries both say the beasts of Daniel 7 are the kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. What evidence found in scripture supports this interpretation of Daniel 7?

    Daniel 10: 13, 20 talk about a prince of the kingdom of Persia and a prince of Greece, which are fallen angels assigned to influence the empires of
    Persia and Greece. It would be likely, then, that there were also fallen angels who were over the Babylonian and Roman empires.

    And could not these same fallen angels rule over the four beast empires of Daniel 7?

    Since it is possible that the same fallen angels who ruled the kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome rule a later set of four kingdoms, these later kingdoms could each have some similarity to Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.

    Daniel 2: 44 says that in the days of the kingdoms of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome that God will set up his kingdom, which will break in pieces and consume these kingdoms of the rule by man and God's kingdom will last forever. God's kingdom began during the Roman empire, when Christ was born as a man and died on the Cross.

    The Cross is the dividing live between the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 and the four kingdoms of Daniel 7.

    And - just as there were two kingdoms before Babylon, which were the Egyptian and Assyrian kingdoms, there were two kingdoms before the final four
    which come after the Cross. These two previous kingdoms are the Holy Roman Empire and the Catholic Kingdom of Spain.

    There is nothing wrong with using history to confirm prophecy and add details to that broad prophecy.

    Figure it out. The first three kingdoms of Daniel 7 have "codes" which identify them. England has in history used the lion as its coat of arms and a coat of arms of William I (1066-1087) shows the British lion with eagles wings. No, it could not be that simple, you say.

    The bear kingdom of Daniel 7 could not be Russia, referred to as the Russian Bear in history, thats far too simple. It is said to devour much flesh, meaning
    the Soviet Union empire killed a lot of people, and many of these were its own people..

    What modern empire has been associated with the leopard? Leopards are similar to Panthers. We had Panthers in the United States and some still exist in more remote regions. Under Nazi Germany their primary tanks were named Panthers, while another tank was the Panther's relative the Tiger. 21st century Germany now manufactures a tank that has been deployed in Bosnia known as the Leopard. The Nazis used "Blitzkrieg" warfare, similar to the fast marching tactics of Alexander of the Greek empire. The leopard can be a symbol of a fast moving army.

    And - the lion, the bear and the leopard are all beasts of prey, symbolizing military empires. the British, the Soviet Union and the Nazi German military machines.

  5. #5

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    To the OP:

    Briefly ….

    The track of Satan’s beast in the Middle East: [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-15]
    [The visions and the historical record are exactly congruent]

    1. Babylon [gold head] [1st kingdom] [lion]

    2. Media/Persia [silver arms] [2nd kingdom] [bear]

    3. Greater Persia [silver chest] [2nd kingdom raised up on one side] [bear]

    4. Alexander [bronze belly] [Asian holdings] [3rd kingdom] [leopard]

    5. Syrio/Babylonia [northern bronze thigh] [3rd kingdom divided -the largest of the 4 divisions] [leopard]


    Breach in the visions [between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms]


    6. Beast in the little horn [northern iron leg] [smaller 4th kingdom]

    7. Beast in the little horn + 10 [iron/clay feet] [larger 4th kingdom divided]

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    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    "The track of Satanís beast in the Middle East: [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-15]
    [The visions and the historical record are exactly congruent]

    1. Babylon [gold head] [1st kingdom] [lion]

    2. Media/Persia [silver arms] [2nd kingdom] [bear]

    3. Greater Persia [silver chest] [2nd kingdom raised up on one side] [bear]

    4. Alexander [bronze belly] [Asian holdings] [3rd kingdom] [leopard]

    5. Syrio/Babylonia [northern bronze thigh] [3rd kingdom divided -the largest of the 4 divisions] [leopard]


    Breach in the visions [between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms]


    6. Beast in the little horn [northern iron leg] [smaller 4th kingdom]

    7. Beast in the little horn + 10 [iron/clay feet] [larger 4th kingdom divided] "

    Do you think listing these four texts of Revelation and listing the kingdoms of Daniel 2 proves that the beast empires of Daniel 7 are the same as those in Daniel 2? Revelation 13: 2 mentions three of the four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7, which shows than the first beast of Revelation 13 is government and influenced by these three kingdoms of Daniel 7. I thought diepsnationalism puts the fulfillment of almost all prophecy not obviously fulfilled during the dispensationalist 7 year tribulation. Are you disagreeing and saying the first beast of Revelation 13 is ancient Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome? Be much more specific.

  7. #7

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    north,

    One needs to understand who Satan's first beast of Revelation is .... many do not .... very few dispensationalists do

    Do you know?

    If not I will show you

    Once you discover this truth, you will then have the knowledge to interpret Daniel and Revelation correctly on the matter

  8. #8
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    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    If by beast you mean a kingdom, then the first "beast" kingdom was Egypt. I am not sure that by beast you mean kingdoms.

  9. #9

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    north,

    There is a difference between the way "beast" is used in Daniel's visions and the way it is used in Revelation

    The symbol of the wild beast is used in Daniel 7:7-25 to depict humans kingdoms and related positions of the king like Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar, and Antiochus IV and Syrio/Babylonia .... there were many successive kings for each of the 3 kingdoms in the vision, so it is the king "position" of the kingdom that is in view .... the 4th kingdom in the vision is still to come and it has only one human king, the little horn, a king of the northern Middle East at the time of the end [Daniel 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7; Micah 5:5-6]

    But there are two "beasts" described in Revelation that are not human, they are both fallen angels who rebelled with Satan long ago, specially the first beast who is Abaddon-Apollyon .... the destroyer .... the angelic king of the abyss

    This beast has existed since the beginning of creation just like Satan and this beast will do Satan's bidding on the earth during the coming time of the Lord's hour [time] of trial and judgment [Revelation 13:1-4]

    And this beast rules over 7 human Middle East kingdoms presented in the scope of the prophetic visions for Satan .... 5 of his kingdoms assigned have fallen .... the last one, the 5th, just before the first century was Syrio/Babylonia [north of Israel] and the king was Antiochus IV [Daniel 11:21-35]

    Abaddon-Apollyon once ruled ["once was"] on the earth through Middle Eastern kings and is now in the abyss ["is not"] where he cannot interact with humanity [Jude 1:6] .... and he will come out of the abyss to rule the Middle East again at the time of the end, and he will become the little horn of Daniel's visions by direct possession [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-14]

    The little horn will hold both the 6th and 7th king positions and Abaddon-Apollyon will fully possess him and become the 8th king himself .... an astonishing combination of a fallen angel and a human [2Thessalonians 2:8-12; Revelation 13:4]

    If one understands who this beast is, then one can begin to understand the visions of Daniel and Revelation

    .... Daniel's visions of the Image in chapter 2:35-44, and of the little horn in 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 9:26-27; 11:36-45; 12:7 is a parallel and congruent picture of the rule of the first beast of Revelation

    The other thing to know is that there is a breach in the scope of the the visions between the thighs and legs of the image .... and between the 3rd and 4th kingdoms presented in Daniel 7 ..... there is nothing recorded in the visions of events on the earth [the last 2000 years] in this breach

    This breach of silence lies between the Lord's first and second advents, and between the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel [His cutting off] and the beginning of the 70th still pending [His visitation to bring His Judgment of 2520 days + 30 days] [Satan's beast, his false prophet, the little horn, and his human followers will all be destroyed by the Lord at the ending of the 2550 days [Ezekiel 39; Zechariah 14:3; Joel 3:16; Revelation 14:9-11; 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

    Then He will gather the mortal survivors just after those days of tribulation and separate them .... those found believing will enter and populate [reproduce in] His millennial kingdom on the earth [Isaiah 11, 27:13; Zechariah 13:8-9; Matthew 24:29-31; Romans 11:25-36 of Israel] [Matthew 25:31-46 of the nations]
    Last edited by Visions; Sep 1st 2011 at 09:50 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    "But there are two "beasts" described in Revelation that are not human, they are both fallen angels who rebelled with Satan long ago, specially the first beast who is Abaddon-Apollyon .... the destroyer .... the angelic king of the abyss."

    Revelation 9: 11 says the angel of the bottomless pit is Abaddon-Apollyon, who is the king over the demons who are released from the bottomless pit at the Fifth Trumpet Judgment.

    There are fallen angels in Daniel 10, one who rules Persia and another who rules Greece. it would be likely that there are other fallen angels who ruled over
    Babylon and Rome.

    There are fallen angels who rule over the four kingdoms of the modern age, England, Russia. Germany and the U.S.

    To say that Abaddon is the big demon or fallen angel who rules over more than one kingdom is making an assumption not in scripture. In fact, what Daniel 10 says about the particular angels who ruled over Persia and Greece suggests different fallen angels rule over different kingdoms. It could very be that there are similarities between the four kingdoms before the Cross and the four kingdoms of the modern age because the same set of four fallen angels rule over the recent kingdoms that ruled over those ancient ones. But the four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are different kingdoms than those of Daniel 2. But we don't want to delve too much into the individual identities and names of the demons.
    Last edited by northwye; Sep 1st 2011 at 10:47 PM.

  11. #11

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    "To say that Abaddon is the big demon or fallen angel who rules over more than one kingdom is making an assumption not in scripture."

    There are other fallen angelic princes like the examples in Daniel 10 [two of the four who are bound at the Euphrates River to be released and to lead 200 million other fallen ones to punish mankind during the coming tribulation period [Revelation 9:14] .... all of these have been in the past subordinated to Abaddon-Apollyon and will be during the time of the end .... Satan has a structure and order of those who do his bidding

    This beast [who ruled the Middle East in the ancient past] will be released from the abyss by Satan to rule again [Revelation 9:1] for a short time

    He will possess the human little horn and rule with ten other human kings [horns] subordinated to him at the time of the end of this present age

    You will want to read the following more carefully if you desire to know the truth of this matter [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 17:8-14] .... and the Lord has revealed all of this for our understanding

    ..... the second beast of revelation is also another fallen angel who will lead the religious cult of the first [Revelation 11:11-16] .... this one will manifest in two horns [two human religious clerics]
    Last edited by Visions; Sep 2nd 2011 at 12:05 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    Where are you getting all this from?

  13. #13

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    Primarily from Daniel and Revelation

    If you want to understand the visions related to the time line and succession of the human kingdoms in the scope you must discover the unseen world of rebellion against the Lord [Isaiah 14:12-17; Ezekiel 28:12-19; 38:1-17; Revelation 9:1-11; 9:14-19; 11:7; 12:3-4; 12:7-12; 13:1-8; 13:11-16; 17:8-14; 19:19-20]

    I have given you the specific and related scriptures that are necessary to know and render for your understanding

    Satan and the fallen angels are set out to corrupt and destroy humanity in one way or another and this ambition has been revealed to us

    Here are some related scriptures:

    2Peter
    2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

    Jude

    1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    2Thessalonians
    2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

    2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    Last edited by Visions; Sep 2nd 2011 at 01:42 AM.

  14. #14

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    Quote Originally Posted by vinsight4u8 View Post
    Let Daniel see one vision as to coming kings, then one as to kingdoms. Daniel 7 is where visions were seen. Notice that the leopard beast was seen first having one head, then yet - had four heads. This means the leopard beast came up from the sea two times in Daniel 7.

    had yet - had also - had even-four heads

    That is the fourth great beast that came up from the sea.

    1st - lion /Babylon's king coming again
    2nd -bear/Medes and Persians kings /Cyrus and Darius
    3rd - leopard - one head - four wings of a fowl/ Alexander the Great
    4th - leopard- had yet - four heads - latter days
    Cassander, Lysimichus, Seleucus and Ptolemy. These four were swallowed up by Rome with 10 incarnations, the last seven of which were guided by a great false church.

  15. #15

    Re: Daniel 7 - kings and kingdoms/visions/ had yet four heads

    Quote Originally Posted by John 8:32 View Post
    Cassander, Lysimichus, Seleucus and Ptolemy. These four were swallowed up by Rome with 10 incarnations, the last seven of which were guided by a great false church.
    Sorry, I need to make a correction (the throne of) Ptolemy remained the King of the South. Rome swallowed up the King of the North (the throne of Seleucus) in 65BC and became thereafter the King of the North. Cassander and Lysimichus pretty much faded into ignominy.

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