Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 129

Thread: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Posts
    299

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by markedward View Post
    Within Ezekiel's prophecy about the king of Tyre, the 'cherub' is purely a metaphor. The 'garden of God' is purely a metaphor. The king of Tyre is called a 'cherub', poetically described his wisdom and beauty and favor with God. The king of Tyre is said to live in the 'garden of God', poetically describing the beauty and splendor and wealth of his city. The 'cherub in Eden' is entirely a metaphor to show just how far the king of Tyre has fallen from God's favor.Ezekiel is not talking about the satan, he is talking about the king of Tyre, 'but a man'.
    So you are saying this is neither spiritually signifying the fall of Adam/man nor the fall of Lucifer? There seems to be more here. But I completely agree with your explanation of what the verses literally are referring to.

    (one more section of Scripture that I have to cross off for support of satan as lucifer)

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Posts
    299

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    Yea I have to agree with Sojourner, Not sure how you get Adam being the subject of those verses. Satan was in Eden and was perfect in all his ways, so im in the camp of his fall happening afterward, therefore whatever his role intended in creation it must have had an earthly element to it.
    if satan was perfect at that time, why tempt evil?

  3. #18

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner55 View Post
    One question: Assuming Adam was naked, how were those precious stones attached?
    You would be the one to think of this, wouldn't you?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    8,173
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luciano Vinci View Post
    That's a good support for satan as a fallen angel, because of the word cherub. But other than the use of cherub, everything here seems to point to Adam: he was full of wisdom, perfect in beauty, he was in the Garden of God, all precious stones were his covering there, and it says he was created. Satan was in the garden too, but he wasn't placed there by God, he kinda slivered in, or walked if he had feet before the curse on him.

    Cherub is the sticking point, perhaps someone can elaborate on if this could refer to anything other than an angelic being.
    Yes, Adam was in garden, but what in this passage would give any indication that this is speaking of Adam?

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6)
    Posts
    14,927

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luciano Vinci View Post
    I have taught satan as a created being, evil from the beginning and a tool of God. However, never in my church, only in Bible studies (since my denomination thinks its heresy). I have also taught him as Lucifer the fallen angel when teaching on pride and such (the common thought).

    My pastors tell me that teaching satan as a created being and not a fallen Lucifer, besides being Scripturally wrong, delves into the question of free will. In other words, if satan was created as satan, he never had a chance, and that does not mesh with the belief that God gives everyone, including celestial beings, free will.

    I don't want to get into the free will aspect of the discussion. However, I would love to find out what others think.

    By the way, I have found about twice as many verses supporting satan as created evil vs. fallen angel, but that may be up to interpretation too.
    Do you believe there are any fallen angels? If so then why couldn't Satan be one of them? Also, if Satan was purposely created to be evil then doesn't that mean he is just doing what God made him to do? If so then why would he be punished on judgment day by being cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10)? What exactly would Satan be punished for if he merely is doing what God made him to do and wants him to do? That wouldn't make any sense. God punishes His creatures for being disobedient and rebelling against His will, not for being obedient and doing what He wants them to do. Because of that, it has to be that Satan rebelled against God and became evil rather than him being created to be evil.

  6. #21

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luciano Vinci
    So you are saying this is neither spiritually signifying the fall of Adam/man nor the fall of Lucifer?
    Right... because there's no way to read that from the text without first assuming it. And assumptions is not how to interpret Scripture.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    The beautiful farm in the center of heaven!
    Posts
    3,538
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luciano Vinci View Post
    That's a good support for satan as a fallen angel, because of the word cherub. But other than the use of cherub, everything here seems to point to Adam: he was full of wisdom, perfect in beauty, he was in the Garden of God, all precious stones were his covering there, and it says he was created. Satan was in the garden too, but he wasn't placed there by God, he kinda slivered in, or walked if he had feet before the curse on him.

    Cherub is the sticking point, perhaps someone can elaborate on if this could refer to anything other than an angelic being.
    Adam was not a cherub, he was "man". Cherubs are entirely different creatures, they are guardians of the throne of God, angels of a sort. There are different kinds of angels.
    We know that satan, the dragon, and the serpent are the same, correct? We also know that the beast will be worshipped as God, and we know that lucifer desires to be worshipped as God; though he is not God, he is a deceiver, we know that satan is a deceiver, we also know that the beast and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire....we also know that satan or the devil is referred to in this same place in the Bible as to being cast into the lake of fire. We also know that lucifer is referred to as being cast down and destroyed because he weakened and oppressed the nations. How? Through deception. We also know that satan appears as an angel of light...how could this be so if he were not an angel to begin with? Put all these things together and you got the same person throughout.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  8. #23

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luciano Vinci View Post
    if satan was perfect at that time, why tempt evil?
    you will have to explain to me what you mean, how can one tempt evil?

  9. #24

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Satan was the king of Tyre?
    Yes, I think that is how scripture presents it

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wherever the Lord places me
    Posts
    42,602

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    Yes, I think that is how scripture presents it
    or maybe it's about...the king of Tyre?
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Under the Blood of the Lamb
    Posts
    6,312
    Blog Entries
    16

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Tension View Post
    You would be the one to think of this, wouldn't you?
    well...what can I say?

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    The beautiful farm in the center of heaven!
    Posts
    3,538
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    I will concede that the term Lucifer may only be a word to refer to a boasting one. But satan is known to be a bit of a boaster is he not? Consider the personality not just names and titles.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,338

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    All 'beings' are created.

    Anything that is uncreated is eternal YHWH God Almighty.

    So Satan was at some point created.

    The question then becomes, what state was he created in, and did that state change?

    Most bible students believe Satan to have been created originally as one of the heavenly hosts (aka angels) who fell into sin at some early point. We don't have alot of details of Satan's history.

    Here are some things we do know.

    Psalms tells us all the angels were created.
    Genesis tells us that at the end of the 6th day, all of creation, both heaven and earth, and all the hosts of them were good.
    Luke has Jesus saying He witnessed Satan's fall.
    Genesis tells us that after 7th day, somewhere before Adam's 130th year, Satan had fallen, and tempted Adam and Eve prior to the birth of Cain, Abel, and Seth.

  14. #29

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    or maybe it's about...the king of Tyre?
    Yep, scripture seems pretty clear on this point... maybe its about both?

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Posts
    299

    Re: Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    you will have to explain to me what you mean, how can one tempt evil?
    the point was, it seems you are saying that the serpent/devil was perfect in the garden of eden.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Is the Angel of the Lord a created being?
    By ross3421 in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: Oct 2nd 2011, 06:23 AM
  2. Where does it say Satan is an angel?
    By IsItLove? in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: Feb 8th 2010, 05:48 AM
  3. Fallen (a poem about satan)
    By paidforinfull in forum Poetry
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Jun 25th 2009, 11:33 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •