Satan: Created being or fallen angel?

[David Taylor]

Jesus spoke of a place where the rich man was . Luke chapter 16 .

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Another good one:
Matthew 25:31
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. "

[Deade]

They found skeletons and went from there. It's not hard to do. There were no dinosaurs alive for these people to see.

I am with you on this. They found fossils just like they do today and made stories about them. I have not heard of dinosaur bones being found with marrow: could be mud or sediment.

[Alert]

Satan fell. The Lord Jesus saw Satan fall like lightening from Heaven. Satan was created, but lost in the rebellion in Heaven, cast down from heaven, changed from his previous high state, to the Devil, the great dragon, etc.

[bluesky22]

I am with you on this. They found fossils just like they do today and made stories about them. I have not heard of dinosaur bones being found with marrow: could be mud or sediment.

Sorry to disappoint gents but it’s true. They have been finding soft tissue in “dino” fossils since the 60’s. Real.Soft.Tissue.

Not to mention the global spanning “dragon” legends from every corner of the earth. Carvings, paintings, actual cultures, stories, eye witnesses, it’s all there. Also, living fossils need to be accounted for in this vein.

Plus the bonus evidence of a global flood from all corners of the earth and many cultures spanning thousands of years. Even the bible describes them.

I have not even scratched the surface with the evidence either. The T-Rex soft tissue made secular headlines. Although they are busy trying to spin it as a non-event. Too much to ignore.

I am with you on this. They found fossils just like they do today and made stories about them. I have not heard of dinosaur bones being found with marrow: could be mud or sediment.

Sorry to disappoint gents but it’s true. They have been finding soft tissue in “dino” fossils since the 60’s. Real.Soft.Tissue.

Not to mention the global spanning “dragon” legends from every corner of the earth. Carvings, paintings, actual cultures, stories, eye witnesses, it’s all there. Also, living fossils need to be accounted for in this vein.

Plus the bonus evidence of a global flood from all corners of the earth and many cultures spanning thousands of years. Even the bible describes them.

I have not even scratched the surface with the evidence either. The T-Rex soft tissue made secular headlines. Although they are busy trying to spin it as a non-event. Too much to ignore.

[boangry]

Sorry to disappoint gents but it’s true. They have been finding soft tissue in “dino” fossils since the 60’s. Real.Soft.Tissue.

Not to mention the global spanning “dragon” legends from every corner of the earth. Carvings, paintings, actual cultures, stories, eye witnesses, it’s all there. Also, living fossils need to be accounted for in this vein.

Plus the bonus evidence of a global flood from all corners of the earth and many cultures spanning thousands of years. Even the bible describes them.

I have not even scratched the surface with the evidence either. The T-Rex soft tissue made secular headlines. Although they are busy trying to spin it as a non-event. Too much to ignore.

Yep, they are starting to find red cells in bones everywhere now, it took the gob smacked evolutionists about 15 years to come up with a way to explain it away but its that weak they really need to find a better answer than its being preserved in certain conditions, I wont go into it, but even if I tanned one of my leather skins they way they are suggesting it was done with iron(which I know haw to do), it would still not be preserved for more than 100s of years let alone millions, and yes ive seen leather be completely fossilized in about a 30yr time frame, so even if preserved, fossilisation still has the minerals replacing the soft tissue.

I have to do some digging but I had some pictures somewhere of a couple of finds with skin(unfossilised) , and soft tissue, where DNA samples were even able to be taken, Ive got it in hard copy, I had a quick look on the web, for some reason its not easy to find :shrug:

[Noeb]

Satan fell. The Lord Jesus saw Satan fall like lightening from Heaven. Satan was created, but lost in the rebellion in Heaven, cast down from heaven, changed from his previous high state, to the Devil, the great dragon, etc.

Jesus said he saw that in correlation with the disciples casting out demons. He was not referring to the past but the present. Satan didn't get a name change/new identity. He's falls like lightening every time he is defeated by the name (character/authority) of Jesus. It's a figure of speech.

[percho]

YLT 2 Cor 4:6 1st phrase - because, God who said, Out of darkness light, to shine,
Is that a reference to Genesis 1:2,3 KJV And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

What was this already present, on the earth, darkness and this light? Does the following verse give the answer?

To open their eyes, to turn, from darkness to light, and the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18 KJV I replaced italicized words with comers, because I believe it is clearer.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:4,5 -----

Was this a 24 hour period even though the sun to rule did not come until the fourth, 24 hour period? I believe yes because of the following which isn't about the division of day and night but about walking in the good light of Day or the evil darkness of Night.

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world (of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor 4:6.) But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. (only the darkness of Satan and his deeds) John 11:9,10

NOW! Why Did God create man, Adam? But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man (Adam), that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man (Singular therefore the Son of God, Jesus), that thou visitest him? Heb 2:6 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (The Son of God) Rom 5:12 Why? He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, (As the son of Man) that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 And darkness was upon the face of the deep, which was without form and void.

How was God through the Son of God manifested as the Son of Man going to destroy the works of the devil <See Rev 12:9? Hebrews 2:14,15 Forasmuch then as the children (of Adam) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (the Son of God) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:7-9

IMHO Satan and his works began before Verse 2 of Genesis 1.

YLT 2 Cor 4:6 1st phrase - because, God who said, Out of darkness light, to shine,
Is that a reference to Genesis 1:2,3 KJV And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

What was this already present, on the earth, darkness and this light? Does the following verse give the answer?

To open their eyes, to turn, from darkness to light, and the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18 KJV I replaced italicized words with comers, because I believe it is clearer.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:4,5 -----

Was this a 24 hour period even though the sun to rule did not come until the fourth, 24 hour period? I believe yes because of the following which isn't about the division of day and night but about walking in the good light of Day or the evil darkness of Night.

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world (of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor 4:6.) But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. (only the darkness of Satan and his deeds) John 11:9,10

NOW! Why Did God create man, Adam? But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man (Adam), that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man (Singular therefore the Son of God, Jesus), that thou visitest him? Heb 2:6 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (The Son of God) Rom 5:12 Why? He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, (As the son of Man) that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 And darkness was upon the face of the deep, which was without form and void.

How was God through the Son of God manifested as the Son of Man going to destroy the works of the devil <See Rev 12:9? Hebrews 2:14,15 Forasmuch then as the children (of Adam) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (the Son of God) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:7-9

IMHO Satan and his works began before Verse 2 of Genesis 1.

[Deade]

YLT 2 Cor 4:6 1st phrase - because, God who said, Out of darkness light, to shine,
Is that a reference to Genesis 1:2,3 KJV And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

What was this already present, on the earth, darkness and this light? Does the following verse give the answer?

To open their eyes, to turn, from darkness to light, and the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18 KJV I replaced italicized words with comers, because I believe it is clearer.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:4,5 -----

Was this a 24 hour period even though the sun to rule did not come until the fourth, 24 hour period? I believe yes because of the following which isn't about the division of day and night but about walking in the good light of Day or the evil darkness of Night.

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world (of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor 4:6.) But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. (only the darkness of Satan and his deeds) John 11:9,10

NOW! Why Did God create man, Adam? But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man (Adam), that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man (Singular therefore the Son of God, Jesus), that thou visitest him? Heb 2:6 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (The Son of God) Rom 5:12 Why? He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, (As the son of Man) that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 And darkness was upon the face of the deep, which was without form and void.

How was God through the Son of God manifested as the Son of Man going to destroy the works of the devil <See Rev 12:9? Hebrews 2:14,15 Forasmuch then as the children (of Adam) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (the Son of God) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:7-9

IMHO Satan and his works began before Verse 2 of Genesis 1.

YLT 2 Cor 4:6 1st phrase - because, God who said, Out of darkness light, to shine,
Is that a reference to Genesis 1:2,3 KJV And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

What was this already present, on the earth, darkness and this light? Does the following verse give the answer?

To open their eyes, to turn, from darkness to light, and the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18 KJV I replaced italicized words with comers, because I believe it is clearer.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:4,5 -----

Was this a 24 hour period even though the sun to rule did not come until the fourth, 24 hour period? I believe yes because of the following which isn't about the division of day and night but about walking in the good light of Day or the evil darkness of Night.

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world (of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor 4:6.) But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. (only the darkness of Satan and his deeds) John 11:9,10

NOW! Why Did God create man, Adam? But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man (Adam), that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man (Singular therefore the Son of God, Jesus), that thou visitest him? Heb 2:6 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (The Son of God) Rom 5:12 Why? He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, (As the son of Man) that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 And darkness was upon the face of the deep, which was without form and void.

How was God through the Son of God manifested as the Son of Man going to destroy the works of the devil <See Rev 12:9? Hebrews 2:14,15 Forasmuch then as the children (of Adam) are partakers of flesh and blood, he (the Son of God) also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:7-9

IMHO Satan and his works began before Verse 2 of Genesis 1.

Agreed, I am with you on this. To better understand what the Bible really says, about the age of the earth, we must critically inspect the translation accuracy of our modern Bibles. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: And there was light” (Genesis 1:1-3). The Hebrew word hâyâh translated to the first "was" in Genesis 1:2, can just as easily mean "became." Verse one is a general statement that depicts the creation: A perfect and complete work at the very time it was done. God would not create an uneven, disorderly world. In verse two, we could say that, somehow, the earth "became" without form and void. Translated from the Hebrew, are the words for "without form" (tôhûw) and "void" (bôhûw). In their original tongue, both these words basically mean the same thing: Empty or desolate. Enter the "gap theory," which states: There could have been multiple thousands of years between the time "in the beginning," when God did the creating in Genesis 1:1; and Genesis 1:2, when the earth was (or became) empty and desolate. In essence then, the creation depicted in Genesis chapter 1, after verse 1, constitutes a re-creation. This is also called the “old earth” doctrine.

I believe in the gap theory, as it aligns with the true picture given us in other places in scripture. Satan had already fallen by the time he got to the Garden of Eden (see Ezekiel 28:12-16).

[Noeb]

Agreed. Verse 1 isn't a statement of subsequent verses, but what took place before subsequent verses.