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Thread: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

  1. #1

    HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    I was recently in a discussion with another believer who believes that these are two separate events being described in these verses.

    His interpretation of the work of the Holy Spirit is that:

    1 Corinthians 12:13: The Holy Spirit is the one doing the baptizing here and adds a new believer to the body of Christ.

    Matthew 3:11: Jesus is the one baptizing a believer with the Holy Spirit with the overflowing gifts of the Spirit, such as what happened in Acts 2.

    I don't see his rational here. I was wondering if one, or many, of you could comment on this and let me know what you think.

    My understanding is that, when Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit that the person is added to the body of Christ and Jesus grants the gifts of the Spirit through the same baptism of the Holy Spirit. Both times, Jesus is the one doing the baptizing.

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Paul acknowledged that there is one baptism, from Jesus, that enacts a work of the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ. I do think we complicate matters when we then talk about other baptisms when further gifts are given by God to us to enable us to do His work. We desire the gifts, and we all recieve one or more - at God's direction and by His choice - to serve Him. Sometimes, people lay hands on others as was done long ago so that people recieve those gifts and sometimes people seem to recieve them without the laying on of hands. I am reluctant to call that baptism, but others do. The misuse of that word has caused many arguments.

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    I believe the baptism of I Cor 12 is the one baptism of Ephesians 4. It is the baptism the eunuch submitted to in Acts 8 and the baptism that Cornelius and his household were commanded to submit to in Acts 10:47-48. It is baptism in the name of the Lord, Acts 10:48. It is baptism in the name of Jesus Acts 2:38. It is water baptism, Acts 10:47, 8:36,38,39.

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by steelcurtain76 View Post
    I was recently in a discussion with another believer who believes that these are two separate events being described in these verses.

    His interpretation of the work of the Holy Spirit is that:

    1 Corinthians 12:13: The Holy Spirit is the one doing the baptizing here and adds a new believer to the body of Christ.

    Matthew 3:11: Jesus is the one baptizing a believer with the Holy Spirit with the overflowing gifts of the Spirit, such as what happened in Acts 2.

    I don't see his rational here. I was wondering if one, or many, of you could comment on this and let me know what you think.

    My understanding is that, when Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit that the person is added to the body of Christ and Jesus grants the gifts of the Spirit through the same baptism of the Holy Spirit. Both times, Jesus is the one doing the baptizing.
    We can account for some other events we find in scripture also.

    When a person believes in Christ, are they sealed by the Holy Spirit and this is when the Holy Spirit FIRST comes into a believer? Or does God WAIT and holds His Spirit back from sealing a person who believes in His Son and waits until that person has man baptize them in water??? Scripture tells us that Jesus does the baptizing as John the Baptist explains... so there is no holding back the Holy Spirit from sealing and entering into a believer the MOMENT they believe in Him (Christ).

    So... In Acts chapter 1-2, were all the "believers" in the upper room already sealed and the Holy Spirit in them, due to their belief in Christ? If anyone says this event of the Holy Spirit coming upon them is the first time and ONLY time the Holy Spirit comes into them... then where is the record of them in those two Acts chapters of them all accepting Christ and declaring their belief in Christ? Where is the record of their "water" baptism if a person is a firm believer that a person isn't in Christ until a person does BOTH accept/believe AND get wet??

    Let's go to Acts 10... here we have TWO DISTINCT baptismal events?!?! The confounding part in all these scriptures of Acts 10, is that due to Cornelius' belief in Christ... he, his family, and all friends present received what this thread is ALL ABOUT. They received the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues so there is NO doubt that the Holy Spirit is manifesting in power and it's REALLY the Holy Spirit.

    QUESTION... if there is ONLY one baptism... then why would Peter ALSO do an additional baptism in water? He was following through with scriptural doctrine that a believer should be baptized in water.

    Is this because the baptism in water which is an act of faith, is a completely separate event from the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit"?? Water baptism is a personal declaration of one's faith in Christ and is a "good work" of God we do as taught to do as part of Biblical/scriptural doctrine.

    Acts 8... another example of two separate baptismal events. Philip preached to and witnessed to the Samaritans and once those who believed and were in Christ... they were then baptized in water. However... Philip was concerned because they had not received the Holy Spirit? So if Biblical truth and doctrine tell us that in believing in Christ, plus they all had done their water baptism... why would Philip DOUBT all these Samaritans were NOT in Christ??? For any Christian to believe all those Samaritans were not in Christ after their belief in Christ and water baptism... well, such a belief undermines scriptural doctrine that in believing, a person is sealed by the Holy Spirit.

    So how would anyone KNOW if or if not, a person has or has not... received the Holy Spirit? The Apostles "heard" that the believers in Samaria had not yet "received" the Holy Spirit. Again... if a person believes and accepts Christ, according to the Bible... they WILL BE SAVED and are in Christ. Also, Philip completed the water baptism for them all as well... so what is this need for the Apostles to GO TO Samaria later in time and pray over these people?

    When they do pray and when those prayed over "receive" the Holy Spirit... what does Simon "SEE"?

    Acts 19... Paul meets a bunch of believers while traveling and strikes up conversation with them and discovers these believers have accepted Christ and were baptized in water. So why pray that they receive the Holy Spirit in ADDITION to having ALREADY been sealed by the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit entered them the moment they believed in Christ? Yet, when Paul did pray over them and they did receive the Holy Spirit for a "second time"... the evidence was them speaking in tongues and prophesying.

    So... back to a previous question, WHAT did Simon SEE when all those in Samaria received the Holy Spirit for the "second" time???

    Well, based on Acts 2, Acts 10, Acts 19... it's a really good possibility that what Simon saw was the people receiving the Holy Spirit during this second event were speaking in tongues and prophesying.

    In the end... when a person reads all of the Bible and discerns all the scriptures involving the Holy Spirit, it is clear that all these events show us that TWO separate events are occurring in the lives of these believers... today, Jesus hasn't changed and the mission of the Holy Spirit hasn't changed, believers today are still coming to Christ through belief and accepting of Jesus and so the Holy Spirit instantly comes into them and seals them.

    So... what of this "second" event of the Holy Spirit "Baptizing" a person and the evidence of this is the speaking of tongues? Some have this happen BEFORE a water baptism (Acts 10), some have this happen after (Acts 2, 8, 19).

    Steelcurtin76... I was required to purchase a book for my Bible Theology class that I'm presently enrolled in for this summer session college class. The title is: "Transforming Power - Dimensions of the Gospel" by Yung Chul Han. I bought it at Half_._com where it was the cheapest I could find (I'm cheap, hahaha)... the first chapter assigned to read was about "The Baptism of the Holy Spirit" and while it is of a Pentecostal viewpoint, it is about theology so several other viewpoints are raised in the text. In this entire post I did, I really didn't involve anything in which the chapter discusses... everything I wrote in here is simply my personal observations, questions and discoveries of what is in the Bible when read/studied.

    Believing in Christ and thus, receiving the Holy Spirit (sealed) so a person will be saved and ALSO a "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" with evidence of speaking in tongues... are clearly two separate events based on the scriptures.

    How a person works this truth and understanding out for themselves has been the problem over many years as Christians go to literal BATTLE with each other over this topic. This very thread may become nothing but a battle... we will see. Anyway... that chapter in the text book works through alot of this problem so I encourage you to check it out if you want to use such a text to ASSIST you in pursuing this topic and understanding more.

    I was once a Cessationist and I BATTLED AGAINST this topic... all I was doing was battling against God. I surrendered... finally surrendered and a lot of what I wrote above is what He showed me and pointed out to me. I ignored and refused to accept all those scriptures and events I mention in this post while I was in bondage to the Cessationist doctrine(s). All those chapters might as well been removed from all the Bible's I had. When I surrendered, first seeing, and then understanding, and then accepted the truth of those scriptures followed. Until I threw away that man-made Cessationist doctrine... what God did in my heart "was not possible."

    The "cliche" about having "one's eye's opened"... well... when eyes ARE opened to the truth... they can't be closed again. My eyes were not opened and that cessationist doctrine ENSURED that they stayed closed to the truth of God's Word. Thus the very HARD period of surrender began some years ago.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Acts 8, I don't read anything about Holy Spirit Baptism here. What did Simon see? He saw that through the laying on of the Apostles hands the Holy Spirit was given. Jesus administered Holy Spirit Baptism, not the Apostles. Peter gives Jesus credit for what happened to Cornelius (Acts 11:16)

    Acts 19, I don't read anything about Holy Spirit Baptism here either. Paul found disciples who knew only of the baptism of John, possibly from the preaching of Apollos, (Acts 18:24-28). Paul taught them of Christ, and they were then baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus... water baptism?...I believe so. Paul then laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit came upon them.

    Acts 8, The eunuch submitted to water baptism and went on his way rejoicing.

    What is the one baptism of Ephesians 4?

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by WITDNM View Post
    Acts 8, I don't read anything about Holy Spirit Baptism here. What did Simon see? He saw that through the laying on of the Apostles hands the Holy Spirit was given. Jesus administered Holy Spirit Baptism, not the Apostles. Peter gives Jesus credit for what happened to Cornelius (Acts 11:16)
    What was the need for two Baptisms in Acts 8 then? What was seen between the two baptisms that makes a difference that would cause Simon to offer money for what he saw from the Apostles compared to the baptism he saw when Philip baptized in water by the name of the Father,Son, Holy Spirit?

    Why do "two" baptisms for Cornelius if only ONE seals a person in the Holy Spirit?

    Acts 19, I don't read anything about Holy Spirit Baptism here either.
    Based on what?

    Paul found disciples who knew only of the baptism of John, possibly from the preaching of Apollos, (Acts 18:24-28).
    In verse 5 we understand that Paul baptized them in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit due to the fact they were BELIEVERS since they are disciples (v1). So they were Christian due to their belief, sealed by the Holy Spirit due to that belief so Paul assisted them in completing a water baptism which is scriptural doctrine. In the next verse he ALSO layed hands on them so they would also receive the Holy Spirit... this is the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" which is evident by the speaking in tongues.

    Paul taught them of Christ, and they were then baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus... water baptism?...I believe so. Paul then laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit came upon them.
    Right... but don't ignore the sequence and the meaning... their belief saved them and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit, then they CAN complete a water baptism and Paul facilitated this. THEN... Paul additionally layed hands on them and they ALSO received the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

    Acts 8, The eunuch submitted to water baptism and went on his way rejoicing.
    AMEN... his belief in Christ was ALL that is needed for the Holy Spirit to seal him and thus, Philip facilitated the doctrine of water baptism... Praise God!

    What is the one baptism of Ephesians 4?
    v5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

    This is the ONE baptism of when the Holy Spirit initial enters a person who accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and they are sealed. This is what moves a person from OUT of the world and INTO the Body of Christ. This is when the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit will begin in a person who has accepted Christ. This is the inward work of the Holy Spirit IN a new believer in Christ and now a member of the Body of Christ. As an "OUTward" sign, the new Christian can complete a water baptism and leaders in church facilitate this outward sign that any Christian can do at ANY time. Usually encouraged to be done immediately!

    Once a person is in the Body of Christ... as in all the examples of the scriptures presented... a Christian may ALSO receive the Holy Spirit as in what is termed the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit". When this happens however, the OUTward sign is ONLY produced BY the Holy Spirit as a sign and that sign is the speaking in tongues.

    When a person is sealed in the Holy Spirit upon believing in Christ and accepting Him as their Savior, the outward sign that "humans" can do... is the water baptism.

    When a person later, in addition to this... receives the Holy Spirit as in the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" as we saw from the scripture, an OUTward sign that can be SEEN (remember how Simon saw something and based on ALL those other scriptures, it is discerned what he saw) when this 2nd Baptism happens... tongues is spoken which is possible ONLY by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    As for the ONE Baptism of Ephesians 4... this is the only Baptism that is needed for a person to be IN CHRIST.

    Not all receive a Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the NUMBER one reason for this is due to... unbelief which will cause a person to not accept what is in the scriptures. A close 2nd is Christians saying they don't "need" the Baptism of the Holy Spirit... well, if this was true, then why are Apostles traveling MANY miles just to assist Christians to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

    So while I agree that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't "needed", this is ONLY in the context of being IN Christ. ONCE in Christ, a Christian CAN also receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. As Paul taught us... all a Christian needs to do is "desire" (1 Cor 12:31).

    Some years ago, I began to pray as I was led and I desired the Holy Spirit gifts of knowledge and wisdom... I prayed daily for about 3 months. A prophet finally had to tell me that God said my prayers were heard and answered and to STOP praying for these gifts and to START listening. I've been operating with these two gifts of the Holy Spirit since I did as the prophet informed me what God intrusted... in obedience, I listen.

    So... I will be so bold in my standard statement... satan has instituted doctrine into the Body of Christ MAKING Christians NOT believe in what the scriptures clearly reveal and this cessationist doctrine KEEPS Christian eyes closed to the truth and their hearts are bound by the unholy power of that doctrine... in unbelief or self-righteousness in the form of thinking that they DON'T NEED the Holy Spirit to bless the Body of Christ with any of His gifts.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by WITDNM View Post
    Acts 8, I don't read anything about Holy Spirit Baptism here. What did Simon see? He saw that through the laying on of the Apostles hands the Holy Spirit was given. Jesus administered Holy Spirit Baptism, not the Apostles. Peter gives Jesus credit for what happened to Cornelius (Acts 11:16)

    Acts 19, I don't read anything about Holy Spirit Baptism here either. Paul found disciples who knew only of the baptism of John, possibly from the preaching of Apollos, (Acts 18:24-28). Paul taught them of Christ, and they were then baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus... water baptism?...I believe so. Paul then laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit came upon them.

    Acts 8, The eunuch submitted to water baptism and went on his way rejoicing.

    What is the one baptism of Ephesians 4?
    Hi WITDNM,

    It might possibly help our understanding of one another if you'd state your church affiliation? For example, I was raised in the Church of Christ, and was raised to believe as do you.

    Thanks,

    Watchman
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by steelcurtain76 View Post
    I was recently in a discussion with another believer who believes that these are two separate events being described in these verses.

    His interpretation of the work of the Holy Spirit is that:

    1 Corinthians 12:13: The Holy Spirit is the one doing the baptizing here and adds a new believer to the body of Christ.

    Matthew 3:11: Jesus is the one baptizing a believer with the Holy Spirit with the overflowing gifts of the Spirit, such as what happened in Acts 2.

    I don't see his rational here. I was wondering if one, or many, of you could comment on this and let me know what you think.

    My understanding is that, when Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit that the person is added to the body of Christ and Jesus grants the gifts of the Spirit through the same baptism of the Holy Spirit. Both times, Jesus is the one doing the baptizing.
    I agree with you. The same Greek word ("en") normally translated as "by" in 1 Cor 12:13 is the word translated as "with" in Matthew 3:11. So, I believe the word is best translated as "with" in both verses. It is Jesus doing the baptizing of a person with or by way of the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ/church. So, I see those two verses as speaking of the same event.

  9. #9

    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    After re-reading my original post, I think I need to clarify what I was trying to ask.

    I do believe that there are two different baptisms that a believer undergoes....Spirit (Matthew 3:11) and Water (Acts 8). I think this is consistent with what we read in Acts 8, 10, and 19....as well as what is stated as part of the elementary teachings (baptisms) from Hebrews 6:2 (NIV)

    My friend see's 3 baptisms in the NT of the same events where I only see 2.

    He see's:

    1 Corinthians 12:13 - HS baptized the person into the body of Christ as a new believer.

    Acts 8:37 - Believer is water baptized as a death, burial, and resurrection of the old man to a new man (Romans 6)

    Matthew 3:11 - Jesus baptizes the believer with the gifts of the HS as seen in Acts 8:17 and Acts 19:1-5

    I think the 1st and 3rd baptism he describes happens at the same time and the one doing the baptizing (Jesus) is the same too.

    I believe that HS baptism can pre-ceed water baptism (Acts 10) or it can come after water baptism (Acts 19), but I only see 2 different baptisms here.

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    This is the sad part of certain discussions. Even though we don't realize that we do it; it comes out of us.

    If you don't see things my way, your eyes are closed but mine are open. Strange how we make accusations like that about each other, isn't it? Is that what we really want to accuse each other of?

    What is wrong with admitting that we just changed our minds? Why do we accuse others of being blind? Are we that certain that the error is theirs and not ours?

    That is what stifles honest discussion done the way we should do it. We write phrases that tend to hurt feelings and display arrogance. Not that I have not done the same, but my eyes have been opened.

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo View Post
    This is the sad part of certain discussions. Even though we don't realize that we do it; it comes out of us.

    If you don't see things my way, your eyes are closed but mine are open. Strange how we make accusations like that about each other, isn't it? Is that what we really want to accuse each other of?

    What is wrong with admitting that we just changed our minds? Why do we accuse others of being blind? Are we that certain that the error is theirs and not ours?

    That is what stifles honest discussion done the way we should do it. We write phrases that tend to hurt feelings and display arrogance. Not that I have not done the same, but my eyes have been opened.
    Actually it's more about honesty. I was blinded and I explained why I was blinded. So due to this blindness caused by doctrine of man (inspired by satan), I did not see the truth in the Bible. God had to change me, this did not happen until I surrendered to Him. It's the same when anyone surrenders and He changes us even as simple as the surrender of believing IN Christ and we are made new. Peter's eye's were closed to the Gentiles, God opened them and changed Peter's UNbelief to belief. Should I have been back in those days. I'd tell Peter... "dude, your eyes are closed, LOOK around and see how the Gentiles are accepting Christ and are made new, too!!"

    I'm straight up and honest, not accusatory (as I'm accused) and instead of suppressing discussion... I encourage discussion by showing the truth. Even if people can't see it and they are offended
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by steelcurtain76 View Post
    After re-reading my original post, I think I need to clarify what I was trying to ask.

    I do believe that there are two different baptisms that a believer undergoes....Spirit (Matthew 3:11) and Water (Acts 8). I think this is consistent with what we read in Acts 8, 10, and 19....as well as what is stated as part of the elementary teachings (baptisms) from Hebrews 6:2 (NIV)

    My friend see's 3 baptisms in the NT of the same events where I only see 2.

    He see's:

    1 Corinthians 12:13 - HS baptized the person into the body of Christ as a new believer.

    Acts 8:37 - Believer is water baptized as a death, burial, and resurrection of the old man to a new man (Romans 6)

    Matthew 3:11 - Jesus baptizes the believer with the gifts of the HS as seen in Acts 8:17 and Acts 19:1-5

    I think the 1st and 3rd baptism he describes happens at the same time and the one doing the baptizing (Jesus) is the same too.

    I believe that HS baptism can pre-ceed water baptism (Acts 10) or it can come after water baptism (Acts 19), but I only see 2 different baptisms here.
    I have to be on the road in about 30 minutes to travel north due to some ministering that I'm led to do. When I'm home tonight, I'll relook at all the scriptures you mention in support of your friends belief.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  13. #13

    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Actually it's more about honesty. I was blinded and I explained why I was blinded. So due to this blindness caused by doctrine of man (inspired by satan), I did not see the truth in the Bible. God had to change me, this did not happen until I surrendered to Him. It's the same when anyone surrenders and He changes us even as simple as the surrender of believing IN Christ and we are made new. Peter's eye's were closed to the Gentiles, God opened them and changed Peter's UNbelief to belief. Should I have been back in those days. I'd tell Peter... "dude, your eyes are closed, LOOK around and see how the Gentiles are accepting Christ and are made new, too!!"

    I'm straight up and honest, not accusatory (as I'm accused) and instead of suppressing discussion... I encourage discussion by showing the truth. Even if people can't see it and they are offended
    I'm right with you Slug. I was blinded too and misused passages from Acts 8 and 1 Corinthians 13 to stay blinded, until around 2 years ago when my eyes were completely opened when my wife was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Since then, I have been too.

  14. #14

    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    I agree with you. The same Greek word ("en") normally translated as "by" in 1 Cor 12:13 is the word translated as "with" in Matthew 3:11. So, I believe the word is best translated as "with" in both verses. It is Jesus doing the baptizing of a person with or by way of the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ/church. So, I see those two verses as speaking of the same event.
    Thank you! I thought the same thing.

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    Re: HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Actually it's more about honesty. I was blinded and I explained why I was blinded. So due to this blindness caused by doctrine of man (inspired by satan), I did not see the truth in the Bible. God had to change me, this did not happen until I surrendered to Him. It's the same when anyone surrenders and He changes us even as simple as the surrender of believing IN Christ and we are made new. Peter's eye's were closed to the Gentiles, God opened them and changed Peter's UNbelief to belief. Should I have been back in those days. I'd tell Peter... "dude, your eyes are closed, LOOK around and see how the Gentiles are accepting Christ and are made new, too!!"

    I'm straight up and honest, not accusatory (as I'm accused) and instead of suppressing discussion... I encourage discussion by showing the truth. Even if people can't see it and they are offended
    I'm sure that it all seems to you the way you say. From other points of view, it does not.

    Have a blessed day.

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