How soon after Ezekiel 38 - 39 would the third Temple appear?

[SirToady]

I realize that after the invaders from the north (and allies) are defeated (By God) that the antichrist has the proper motivation to orchestrate a false peace and that Israel builds her third Temple. We are also told that it will take 7 years to burn all the abandoned armory of the invaders but this seems to need to be completed before the mid-tribulation at the latest. The Temple may not take much time to erect and made functional to operate before it is desecrated by the antichrist but it will take time nonetheless depending on how elaborate its design will be.

[RevLogos]

Where do you see in the Bible a requirement that a third temple be built?

[markedward]

Ezekiel 38-39 do not mention any temple, let alone a third.

If you're referring to Ezekiel 40-48, it must be noted that (a) this is a separate prophecy from the prophecy in Ezekiel 33.21-39.29 (it is distinguished by the dating in 40.1), and so Ezekiel 40-48 is not directly related to Ezekiel 33.21-39.29, and (b) Ezekiel 40-48 was a prophecy given after the destruction of the first temple; this would have been understood as a prophecy of a second temple, not a third, since the second temple had not been built yet.

[Aijalon]

I realize that after the invaders from the north (and allies) are defeated (By God) that the antichrist has the proper motivation to orchestrate a false peace and that Israel builds her third Temple. We are also told that it will take 7 years to burn all the abandoned armory of the invaders but this seems to need to be completed before the mid-tribulation at the latest. The Temple may not take much time to erect and made functional to operate before it is desecrated by the antichrist but it will take time nonetheless depending on how elaborate its design will be.

I think it would take a while, a long while. But since a temple already exists on the temple mount, which is just as equally imperfect as Herod's temple (a modified second temple) then I see no reason why the "third temple" doesn't already exist.

But more importantly, when the real third temple that exactly matches Ezekiels specifications, is finally built. IT WILL BE CHRIST THAT BUILDS IT AFTER HE RETURNS AS KING.

[divaD]

this would have been understood as a prophecy of a second temple, not a third, since the second temple had not been built yet.

That indeed seems like the logical conclusion. So let me ask this then, not to argue, but to understand what your conclusion would then be, the fact a 2nd temple actually got built. Does that then make the temple in Ezekiel 40-48 one and the same with that of the 2nd temple? If no, I'm failing to understand how this would have been understood as the 2nd temple then. If yes, then I'm failing to understand what the 2nd temple has in common with the temple in Ezekiel, the fact God promised to dwell there forever, which didn't turn out to be the case with the 2nd temple.

[John146]

I realize that after the invaders from the north (and allies) are defeated (By God) that the antichrist has the proper motivation to orchestrate a false peace and that Israel builds her third Temple. We are also told that it will take 7 years to burn all the abandoned armory of the invaders but this seems to need to be completed before the mid-tribulation at the latest. The Temple may not take much time to erect and made functional to operate before it is desecrated by the antichrist but it will take time nonetheless depending on how elaborate its design will be.

Can you tell me why you believe that animal sacrifices will be reinstated in the future? Why would God do that? How does your belief in a third physical temple line up with what is taught in Hebrews 8-10? Will Christ's sacrifice no longer be sufficient at some point in the future?

[John146]

I think it would take a while, a long while. But since a temple already exists on the temple mount, which is just as equally imperfect as Herod's temple (a modified second temple) then I see no reason why the "third temple" doesn't already exist.

But more importantly, when the real third temple that exactly matches Ezekiels specifications, is finally built. IT WILL BE CHRIST THAT BUILDS IT AFTER HE RETURNS AS KING.

Why would Christ build a physical temple when He has already been building a temple for almost 2,000 years?

Eph 2:19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

[SirToady]

Where do you see in the Bible a requirement that a third temple be built?

Daniel 9:26b “and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood,” This is the destruction of Jerusalem and of the Temple as if by a flood, and the dispersion of the people by the Roman general and future Emperor Titus in 70 A.D. just as Christ prophesied; Matthew 24:2, Mark 13:2, Luke 21:6.

Daniel 9:26c “and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.” The term desolations is interpreted as the eagles, the standards of the Roman army, which were an abomination to the Jews. These standards, rising over the site of the temple, were a sign that the holy place had fallen under the idolatrous Romans. 26c possibly has two meanings:
• 70 A.D. was not unto the end of the war as far as Israel/Jerusalem and the desolations are concerned.
• desolations are determined (fullness of the Gentiles) occur post - Rapture in the near future, Luke 21:24, Romans 11:25.

After 2,011 years Israel becomes once again an independent State (Ezekiel 37:21) on May 14, 1948, and gains control of Jerusalem in 1967 which must happen prior to fulfilling Daniel 9:27. The desolations determined is that point in time setting the stage for the 70th week.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (its destruction), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is history repeating itself in our near future. Titus did not covenant, negotiate, or confirm anything except the destruction of Jerusalem by cause of a Jewish rebellion beginning in 66 A.D. Titus prevailed against the Jews – period, there was no Rapture, no Son of Man appearing in the clouds, no Kingdom established, no 1000 year reign of Christ, no everlasting dominion, no two witnesses nor satellites to see their dead bodies, no Prince of Princes…. Our understanding may not be God’s understanding, but these things and much more will happen because God does not lie.

There had to be another Israel (Ezekiel 37:21), another Jerusalem, another prince (antichrist), another form of the Roman Empire (E.U.? – Daniel 7:7-8, 23), a reason for a seven-year peace, and yes, at some point – probably after the Rapture - another Temple (Revelation 11:1-2) prior to the 3-½ year (42 month) midpoint of the Tribulation - where it also will be eventually destroyed. This time what has been determined shall be poured upon the (those who) desolate. Hallelujah!

[Gideon Jerubbaal]

I think it would take a while, a long while. But since a temple already exists on the temple mount, which is just as equally imperfect as Herod's temple (a modified second temple) then I see no reason why the "third temple" doesn't already exist.

Good point! There is plenty of reason to believe that the Dome of the Rock is the temple where the man of sin sits in God's place. Islam has been sitting there in God's place on Temple Mount for centuries -- and may be the fulfillment of that prophecy.

As for Daniel 9:27, the dispensationalist interpretation is a relatively new one -- not the understanding that Christians held to for hundreds of years.

Luther, Calvin and the Reformers understood that the "covenant" was the Mosaic Law covenant and that the "week" was seven years, beginning when Jesus began his earthly ministry. Temple sacrifice ceased to be valid at the half of the week when, after his 3 1/2-year ministry, Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, the Lamb of God.

Martin Luther: “For when Christ sent out the Gospel through the ministry of himself and of the Apostles, it lasted three or three and a half years, that it almost amounts to the calculation of Daniel, namely the 490 years. Hence he also says, Christ shall take a half a week, in which the daily offerings shall cease; that is, the priesthood and reign of the Jews shall have an end; which all took place in the three and a half years in which Christ preached, and was almost completed in four years after Christ, in which the Gospel prospered the most, especially in Palestine through the Apostles (that when they opened their mouth, the Holy Ghost fell as it were, from heaven, as we see in the Acts of the Apostles), so that a whole week, or seven years, established the covenant, as Daniel says; that is, the Gospel was preached to the Jews, of which we spoke before.” (Martin Luther's “Sermon for the Twenty-Fifth Sunday after Trinity; Matthew 24:15-28” from his Church Postil, first published in 1525)

John Calvin: “The angel now continues his discourse concerning Christ by saying, he should confirm the treaty with many for one week. ...the angel says, Christ should confirm the covenant for one week...” (Lecture Fifty-First)

John Calvin: “In the last Lecture we explained how Christ confirmed the covenant with many during the last week...” (Lecture Fifty-Second)

John Calvin: “The Prophet now subjoins, He will make to cease the sacrifice and offering for half a week. We ought to refer this to the time of the resurrection. For while Christ passed through the period of his life on earth, he did not put an end to the sacrifices; but after he had offered himself up as a victim, then all the rites of the law came to a close. ...This is the Prophet's intention when he says, Christ should cause the sacrifices to cease for half a week. ...Christ really and effectually put an end to the sacrifices of the Law...” (Lecture Fifty-Second, Commentary on Daniel - Volume 2 by John Calvin)

[SirToady]

Can you tell me why you believe that animal sacrifices will be reinstated in the future? Why would God do that? How does your belief in a third physical temple line up with what is taught in Hebrews 8-10? Will Christ's sacrifice no longer be sufficient at some point in the future?

We must remember the Temple is for the Jewish program - not the Christian. Non-believing Jews are already prepared to begin Temple practice again. We Christians are to be raptured prior to the tribulation and most likely before Israel is attacked by the northern armies / Muslim nations. God's intervention wipes out the invaders which will make building the Temple a relatively simple task. The sacrifices are mentioned in Daniel 9:27 which comes to an end at the midpoint of the tribulation by cause of the antichrist.

[markedward]

That indeed seems like the logical conclusion. So let me ask this then, not to argue, but to understand what your conclusion would then be, the fact a 2nd temple actually got built. Does that then make the temple in Ezekiel 40-48 one and the same with that of the 2nd temple?

No, the actually-built second temple was not the second temple Ezekiel saw in his vision, for two reasons. First, all prophecy is conditional by definition of it being prophecy (see Jeremiah 18.7-11). The conditions don't have to be explicitly mentioned in a prophecy for the prophecy to be conditional (an obvious example being Jonah prophesying to Nineveh). Second, Ezekiel explicitly mentions conditions in 43.10-11; given that Ezekiel's temple has several elements that are aren't just incompatible with Christian theology ('sin offerings', 'guilt offerings', the Davidic prince is not a priest and is barred from actually entering the temple, the Davidic prince has children), but are even short-sighted in Jewish eschatology (the land Israel possesses in Ezekiel's vision is smaller than what was promised to Abraham), which altogether point that Ezekiel anticipated his vision to be fulfilled shortly after the return from exile in Babylon... not to be fulfilled thousands of years in the future under the direct administration of Jesus.

If no, I'm failing to understand how this would have been understood as the 2nd temple then.

It would have been understood as the second temple because it was prophesied after the first temple had been blown up and the second one had not been built. Jerusalem is in ruins and this prophet is telling people that God promised to them a new temple would be built. After one comes two. That it ended up not being built does not negate this fact, it simply means that Israel did not meet the explicit conditions for its construction, as clearly laid out in Ezekiel 43.10-11. The stipulation was that all Israel needed to have repented of the sins that got them exiled in the first place. From what we can tell, this didn't really happen. There was not an overwhelming sense of repentance. When Daniel prayed for the exile to end (Daniel 9), he was practically begging that God would keep his promise to restore the nation; we don't get a strong impression that the people had quite learned their lesson. (Which, I would argue, is what prompted Gabriel's response to Daniel's prayer: 'You guys might be going home like God promised, but the exile isn't really over until you guys get yourselves straightened out, and you have but seventy years-times-seven to do it.')

If yes, then I'm failing to understand what the 2nd temple has in common with the temple in Ezekiel, the fact God promised to dwell there forever, which didn't turn out to be the case with the 2nd temple.

It didn't turn out to be the case with the first temple either. Solomon finished building a temple for God:

And Yahweh said to him, 'I have heard your prayer and your plea, which you have made before me. I have consecrated this house that you have built, by putting my name there forever. My eyes and my heart will be there for all time. ... But if you turn aside from following me, you or your children, and do not keep my commandments and my statutes that I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, then I will cut off Israel from the land that I have given them, and the house that I have consecrated for my name I will cast out of my sight, and Israel will become a proverb and a byword among all peoples.'

The promise to Solomon here in 1 Kings 9 specifically says 'forever', but this is entirely contingent upon the nation's faithfulness. In other words, 'forever' assumes faithfulness. The same goes for the promises in the Prophets; they assume present, ongoing faithfulness as a condition for present, ongoing fulfillment. If that condition is not met from the start, the whole fulfillment gets derailed: 'And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.'

[Raybob]

We must remember the Temple is for the Jewish program - not the Christian. Non-believing Jews are already prepared to begin Temple practice again.

We aren't talking about the non-believers. The Jews that are believers, such as myself, know that we are part of the third temple that Jesus built. The old physical temple was where God lived with man in those days. Today, God lives in our heart, when we are part of that third temple.

We Christians are to be raptured prior to the tribulation

You surely won't find that in the bible. What you find is we are raptured, then sudden destruction comes.

1Th 4:16-5:3 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

[Vakeros]

Doesn't stop Jews from building another temple.
Or converting an existing one.
We had a church down the road called Calvary Temple.There are temple's all over the place.

[John146]

We must remember the Temple is for the Jewish program - not the Christian.

Jewish program? Please show me where scripture teaches that God has a Jewish program for the future that is separate from the Christian program. Do you not understand that God has only one people who are all in one body (Eph 2:11-22, Eph 4:4)? Why are you trying to separate His people after He has brought them all together in one body?

Non-believing Jews are already prepared to begin Temple practice again.

So what? What use does God have for some temple made by unbelieving Jews?

We Christians are to be raptured prior to the tribulation

Not true. That is not taught anywhere in scripture.

Mark 13:24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

This passage lines up with what Paul taught here:

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

and most likely before Israel is attacked by the northern armies / Muslim nations. God's intervention wipes out the invaders which will make building the Temple a relatively simple task. The sacrifices are mentioned in Daniel 9:27 which comes to an end at the midpoint of the tribulation by cause of the antichrist.

Where does scripture prophesy about a future pagan temple built by Jewish unbelievers? I don't believe it does.

[John146]

Doesn't stop Jews from building another temple.
Or converting an existing one.
We had a church down the road called Calvary Temple.There are temple's all over the place.

So? What does that have to do with the fulfillment of Bible prophecy? There are no prophecies regarding unbelieving Jews building a meaningless temple.