Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 61 to 71 of 71

Thread: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,814
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    And yes God is currently behind a "mirror" (crystal).
    There is nothing at all there about anything made of crystal. You are trying to link two things that have no relation at all.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,088
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    There is nothing at all there about anything made of crystal. You are trying to link two things that have no relation at all.
    Paul is not only speaking figuratively but literally. We are physically looking but cannot see. Paul does not speak things he does not mean. So if we are looking thru a glass we are looking thru a glass literally. Iam showing the literalness of his words. Now you all can surmise what it means figuratively all you want.

    So God sits behind a crystal throne which is behind a "looking glass" spread across the sky which prohibits us from physically seeing and is a physical barrier.

    The sky is as a molten looking glass (this would correlate with the spectrum)


    Job 37
    16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
    17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?
    18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
    19 Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness.

    If we look at #2 we see all the same words don't we......

    9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    It is great how scripture interprets itself.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    8,140

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    It seems that Paul is *not* saying we see God through the mirror. Rather, seeing God is like seeing ourselves in a mirror. We know we are there. We see ourselves. But the image we see is very unclear. This would be true only of ancient metal mirrors.

    1 Cor 13.12 then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.


    Put another way, we shall then see God clearly, just as we want to be able to fully see ourselves in a mirror that renders us indistinct.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,814
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Paul is not only speaking figuratively but literally. We are physically looking but cannot see. Paul does not speak things he does not mean. So if we are looking thru a glass we are looking thru a glass literally.
    There is no glass to be looked through. It's a very poor mirror that doesn't reflect very well.

    Iam showing the literalness of his words.
    No, you aren't taking anything Paul said literally. You are misunderstanding a very old translation using older English and taking it in a direction Paul never spoke about and using things Paul never spoke of.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,088
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    It seems that Paul is *not* saying we see God through the mirror. Rather, seeing God is like seeing ourselves in a mirror. We know we are there. We see ourselves. But the image we see is very unclear. This would be true only of ancient metal mirrors.

    1 Cor 13.12 then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.


    Put another way, we shall then see God clearly, just as we want to be able to fully see ourselves in a mirror that renders us indistinct.
    Paul says nothing about a reflection. Rather he states we are looking "thru" not "at" the glass.

    The scripture is all about knowledge. That currently we only know part. When we see God will shall know all

    Nothing to do about who we are as a refection.....as a person.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,088
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    There is no glass to be looked through. It's a very poor mirror that doesn't reflect very well.

    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


    Paul says nothing about a reflection. Rather he states we are looking "thru" not "at" the glass.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,814
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


    Paul says nothing about a reflection. Rather he states we are looking "thru" not "at" the glass.
    Paul didn't speak English so he did not say any of that. In the Greek he doesn't say look through a glass but look into a mirror.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,088
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Paul didn't speak English so he did not say any of that. In the Greek he doesn't say look through a glass but look into a mirror.
    The greek word for "through" in the passage is "dia" and does not mean your interpetation of "into".

    1223 diá (a preposition) – properly, across (to the other side), back-and-forth to go all the way through, "successfully across" ("thoroughly"). 1223 (diá) is also commonly used as a prefix and lend the same idea ("thoroughly," literally, "successfully" across to the other side).

    [1223 (diá) is a root of the English term diameter ("across to the other side, through"). Before a vowel, dia is simply written di̓.]


    So there is a mirror, spectrum, looking glass which is between us and God currently. Note it is not that man consincously looking at but a literal fact. Only when this is taken away may we see God and know all.

    Thus for man he is limited and thus struggles in understanding by this division and unconciously is trying to look across the mirror to understand fully and the things of God.

    Job 37
    16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
    17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?
    18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
    19 Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,814
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The greek word for "through" in the passage is "dia" and does not mean your interpetation of "into".
    While you are finally looking at the Greek look up glass because it's a mirror not glass like a window and you cannot look "through" a mirror like you can glass.

    dia
    dee-ah'
    A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.


    "A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act" and looking "into" or "in" a mirror is what the word can mean because it is the channel of the act of looking at a mirror and is the best choice in the context of this verse.

    1 Corinthians 13:12


    (ASV) For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.

    (CEV) Now all we can see of God is like a cloudy picture in a mirror. Later we will see him face to face. We don't know everything, but then we will, just as God completely understands us.

    (ESV) For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

    (GNB) What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete---as complete as God's knowledge of me.

    (GW) Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.

    (ISV) Now we see only an indistinct image in a mirror, but then we will be face to face. Now what I know is incomplete, but then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.

    (MKJV) For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know even as I also am fully known.

    (RV) For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.

    (TLV) For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.

    (WEBA) For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known.

    (WNT) For the present we see things as if in a mirror, and are puzzled; but then we shall see them face to face. For the present the knowledge I gain is imperfect; but then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,088
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    it's a mirror not glass like a window and you cannot look "through" a mirror like you can glass.
    Two way mirror.......

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,814
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: What does "For now we see through a glass, darkly" mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Two way mirror.......

    No, just a plain old regular mirror from very long ago that showed a dim image.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 140
    Last Post: May 5th 2018, 07:07 AM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: Aug 14th 2012, 02:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •