Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Jehovah's Witnesses

  1. #1

    Jehovah's Witnesses

    Does anyone have experience with witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses? My hubby has a heart for them and Mormons, etc., so he/we speak with them, mostly he does. Right now, specifically, we are in dialogue about their belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. We know He isn't and can show that, but is anyone familiar with the JW side of the debate? Does anyone have any references they could recommend?

    Many thanks!

    Cutie

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Vally of the Sun, Arizona,
    Posts
    1,270

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by my1cutie View Post
    Does anyone have experience with witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses? My hubby has a heart for them and Mormons, etc., so he/we speak with them, mostly he does. Right now, specifically, we are in dialogue about their belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. We know He isn't and can show that, but is anyone familiar with the JW side of the debate? Does anyone have any references they could recommend?

    Many thanks!

    Cutie
    Hi My1cutie
    I have been witnessing to a JW at work for almost two years I logged my progress with my friend on a thread in this sub-forum
    here is the link http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...ness-coworker*
    It has some info and a link or two . I have more info that I will post later .
    Blessings
    Your brother in Christ
    Bill

  3. #3

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Hi My1cutie
    I have been witnessing to a JW at work for almost two years I logged my progress with my friend on a thread in this sub-forum
    here is the link http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...ness-coworker*
    It has some info and a link or two . I have more info that I will post later .
    Blessings
    Your brother in Christ
    Bill
    Thanks. I will check it out.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Apple Valley Calif
    Posts
    1,600

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by my1cutie View Post
    Does anyone have experience with witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses? My hubby has a heart for them and Mormons, etc., so he/we speak with them, mostly he does. Right now, specifically, we are in dialogue about their belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. We know He isn't and can show that, but is anyone familiar with the JW side of the debate? Does anyone have any references they could recommend?

    Many thanks!

    Cutie
    A good book to get is called, "The Kingdom of the Cults" It's been out awhile but has lots of information, probably more than you want.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Vally of the Sun, Arizona,
    Posts
    1,270

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    A good book to get is called, "The Kingdom of the Cults" It's been out awhile but has lots of information, probably more than you want.
    Yea it is a extent book ! Great advice .
    Blessings
    Your brother in Christ
    Bill

  6. #6

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Thanks, Curtis. Yes, that is a good book, too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    there are alot of secondary, side-tracking issues that JWs fall in conflict with biblical Christianity.

    However, they all shoudl be avoided.

    Their single, primary conflict, is they follow a different Jesus.

    The jesus of the Watchtower (JWs), is a mere created being, and is not eternal God.

    Since there jesus isnt God, he cannot save himself from his own sins, mucless, save any of us from our sins.

    Focus on -who- the true Jesus is, that's their biggest doctrinal flaw.

    there are alot of secondary, side-tracking issues that JWs fall in conflict with biblical Christianity.

    However, they all shoudl be avoided.

    Their single, primary conflict, is they follow a different Jesus.

    The jesus of the Watchtower (JWs), is a mere created being, and is not eternal God.

    Since there jesus isnt God, he cannot save himself from his own sins, mucless, save any of us from our sins.

    Focus on -who- the true Jesus is, that's their biggest doctrinal flaw.

  8. #8

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    there are alot of secondary, side-tracking issues that JWs fall in conflict with biblical Christianity.

    However, they all shoudl be avoided.

    Their single, primary conflict, is they follow a different Jesus.

    The jesus of the Watchtower (JWs), is a mere created being, and is not eternal God.

    Since there jesus isnt God, he cannot save himself from his own sins, mucless, save any of us from our sins.

    Focus on -who- the true Jesus is, that's their biggest doctrinal flaw.
    Agreed. That is why I started this thread. I specifically am looking for ways people deal with the JW's belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. I am especially interested in hearing from someone who is well-versed in the JW teaching on the matter. The JWs we talk with seem to not know why they believe this, just that they do.

  9. #9

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    The reasoning behind their belief is this:

    1. The word 'archangel' is used only two times in the entire Bible. First to describe the voice that speaks at the time of Jesus' coming (1 Thessalonians 4). Second to describe Michael (Jude). They believe this means Jesus is the archangel Michael.

    2. For a few centuries, many Christians have speculated that the 'Angel of the LORD' from the Old Testament is Jesus before his birth as a man. The phrase 'The Lord rebuke you!' is used only two times in the entire Bible. It is spoken once by the Angel of the LORD (Zechariah 3). It is spoken once by Michael (Jude). They believe this means the Angel of the LORD, who they believe is Jesus, is the archangel Michael.

    3. Michael is mentioned only in three books of the Bible. Jude (as seen above), Daniel, and the Revelation. Daniel 10-12 says Michael is the 'prince' over Israel, and the 'first' of the angelic princes. Revelation 12 shows Michael throw satan out of heaven, right after showing a 'male child' ascend to God's throne. They believe this means the male child, who they believe is Jesus, is the archangel Michael.


    This is the totality of their reasoning. It is all completely circumstantial. There are many reasons for rejecting it, but the Jehovah's Witnesses who are sent out are usually taught to not listen to others. So they are willing to teach you their belief (even if they don't know the reasoning behind it), but they are not willing to be taught why their belief may be wrong.

  10. #10

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Here are the reasons I think this teaching should be rejected. The first three are very simple.

    One is, the Bible never says Jesus is the Angel of the LORD. In fact, the Angel of the LORD continues to appear even after Jesus is conceived in the womb of Mary, and after he ascends to heaven. Jesus is just never once called 'the Angel of the LORD'.

    Two is, the Bible never says Jesus is Michael. The mere fact that Jesus is mentioned a paragraph before and after Michael is in Revelation 12, is not a good enough reason to claim the Revelation taught they were the same person. Jesus is just never once called 'Michael'.

    Three is, the Bible never says Jesus is the archangel. The mere fact that 'the voice of an archangel' is mentioned in the same sentence as Jesus in 1 Thessalonians 4, is not a good enough reason to claim Paul taught Jesus was that archangel. Jesus is just never once called 'the archangel'.

    Four is, the word 'archangel' may only be used twice in the Bible, but it was a long-used term by Jesus' day. It was used for many different angels, two of which were Gabriel and Michael. 'Archangel' was the Greek word for the 'princes' mentioned in Daniel 10-12, of which at least three are mentioned: the prince of Persia, the prince of Greece, and Michael the prince of Israel. Jehovah's Witnesses believe 'archangel' is a unique term that is only used for Michael. But by definition, at least those other two 'princes' were archangels as well.

    Five is, although Jehovah's Witnesses believe Michael being called the 'first' of the angel-princes means he is the one and only archangel, created before all other angels, this is likely not how the word was understood in its original context. Michael being called the 'first' of the princes is based on Israel being the 'firstborn' country of God. Israel is God's firstborn, even though Israel was not the first of all countries of the world. What it meant was that Israel had a priority over the other countries: Israel was God's son, the country he called his own. What Daniel wrote was that all the countries of the world had an angel-prince (or 'archangel') that had been assigned, in a way, to that country. Michael was the angel-prince assigned to Israel. Thus, because Israel was the 'firstborn' of all countries of the earth, Michael was the 'first' of all the angel-princes. It does not mean he was created first. It does not mean he was superior to all other angels. It just meant he had a place of priority, in accordance with the country he was assigned to.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Vally of the Sun, Arizona,
    Posts
    1,270

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by my1cutie View Post
    Agreed. That is why I started this thread. I specifically am looking for ways people deal with the JW's belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. I am especially interested in hearing from someone who is well-versed in the JW teaching on the matter. The JWs we talk with seem to not know why they believe this, just that they do.
    Hi my1cutie
    You touched on the huge problem with JWs you stated "The JWs we talk with seem to not know why they believe this, just that they do." The JWs faith is rooted in the watchtower organization .Not in God. I had no success in witnessing to any of them without first showing them that their faith is misplaced . Once a seed of doubt concerning organization was planted . I had a easier time getting them to think about what is in scripture ,and compare it to the teachings of the watchtower .
    My biggest suggestion is that you pray before you talk . You also need to remember it is the Holy Spirit that saves you are only a avenue for His influence in these men's hearts .
    Another suggestion develop your own (biblical )style of witnessing . Your approach ( lead by the Holy Spirit ) should not be something out of a apologetics book . Pray , read your Bible ,and let the Holy Spirit be your guide .
    Blessings
    Your brother in Christ
    Bill

  12. #12

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    The first and most important aspect is sincerity. I know this may be a "dah" statement but sometimes it's best to pass unless we are truly heart broken for their situation. They seem to be more passionate for a lie than we are for the truth.

    The second aspect is getting to a point where we are asking them questions. They come asking questions and as the Lord gives opportunity start swinging questions to them.

    If say 22 believers question places of their belief where it is illogical, and the Michael thing is, it may be the 23 witness of the true and livig God that the light comes on and now they have a chink in their armor.

    And pray pray pray after you speak. You may not see them again in this life but hopefully in the next.

    In short, a body + life force = a living soul. When the life force leaves the body that soul dies and the body becomes non existent. So to them "The man Jesus is dead, forever dead." No bodily resurrection. Also by their definition life force is impersonal, so the life force of a cow can be switched so to speak from you to it and it to you and non the difference. But on the Micheal thing the life force was taken from Michael and inserted into the womb of Mary, protected by Gods own personal life force until birth and after death the life force was inserted into a number of bodies, appearing to the disciples, and then was taken up and inserted into a creature or Micheal again, I'm not sure about how that is Stated but those are the things to ask them because you are sincere about your ignorance. "Was the life force put back in Michael or another creature?" and "If life force has no personality what is with Michael having a different personal life force and if life force was taken from Michael then Michael is dead forever dead just as the man Jesus, right? Why did God kill Michael, what was the purpose? So now what our redeemer is in heaven is a Michael, Jesus, Michael hybrid or something, Right?

    They may say "We don't know how God did everything" well then you can say "Isn't that what trinitarians say when confronted". Keep the curiousity flowing and ask ask ask.

    There are ministries that reach the cults that have many tools to speak with them. Quotes from Chaz Russel and JW doctrine to use when asking questions. Keep searching and asking. God bless you and your husband. They have stopped coming to my house now but I haven't stopped praying for them.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dwight, IL
    Posts
    5,389
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Hi my1cutie,

    I know you're familiar with Ron Rhodes book because you commented to me about it. Thanks for the rep points, BTW.

    I think one of the most important things Ron's book teaches us, though I don't think he says this directly, is what his book does overall. His book shows an author who knows his Bible really well, i.e. he knows the context of the passages. Then instead of telling JWs they are wrong and here is what the truth is, he asks questions that put a stone in their shoe. He asks questions that put them on the horns of a dilemma.

    A JW will never teach you something because they have exposited a passage. It is always look at this verse (tree), not look at this passage (forest).

    Frankly, I think most Christian misunderstandings are due to this too.

    So to start approaching any topic with JWs (or Mormons or even other Christians with a different view), don't look at the verse (tree), look at the passage (forest). Then don't tell them directly how they're wrong, read the passage to them and then ask a question and let them answer it.

    I do have resources. I'll try to dig into this in a little bit and come back with specifics on the Michael the archangel issue.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Don't let their application of Michael, through a side-track to the root problem.

    The Michael issue, solves itselve and goes away, if the root problem is corrected.

    The root problem with the teachings of the Watchtower (That is the abbreviated name of the JW organization that oversees their teachings....the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Brooklyn, NY).,

    anyway, the root problem is that their 'jesus', is a created being. Their jesus is not YHWH of the OT, Eternal God from everlasting to everlasting.

    Their jesus was the first creature that Jehovah created, and once their jesus was created, then their jesus 'helped' Jehovah continue to created the rest of creation.

    Everything else is a side-issue.

    This issue, when corrected, allows for all the other problematic teachings to correct themselves.

    This issue, when not corrected, leaves all Watchtower followers damned to hell by following a created being who is not the true Jesus Christ that Abraham knew as the 'IAM that IAM', and who is the only Jesus who is sinless, and can forgive them of their sins.

  15. #15

    Re: Jehovah's Witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    Hi my1cutie,

    I know you're familiar with Ron Rhodes book because you commented to me about it. Thanks for the rep points, BTW.

    I think one of the most important things Ron's book teaches us, though I don't think he says this directly, is what his book does overall. His book shows an author who knows his Bible really well, i.e. he knows the context of the passages. Then instead of telling JWs they are wrong and here is what the truth is, he asks questions that put a stone in their shoe. He asks questions that put them on the horns of a dilemma.

    A JW will never teach you something because they have exposited a passage. It is always look at this verse (tree), not look at this passage (forest).

    Frankly, I think most Christian misunderstandings are due to this too.

    So to start approaching any topic with JWs (or Mormons or even other Christians with a different view), don't look at the verse (tree), look at the passage (forest). Then don't tell them directly how they're wrong, read the passage to them and then ask a question and let them answer it.

    I do have resources. I'll try to dig into this in a little bit and come back with specifics on the Michael the archangel issue.
    This is so true. Trust your bible. A JW used context with me on John 2 concerning the resurrection. They do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus. She was saying the context was the temple and the temple is the believers in Jahovah. Jesus was talking about those who believe. She caught me for a moment and she knew it, I have no poker face, but peace came over me and I just said well lets look at it. and sure enough as the passage continues: vs. 21, 22: But he was speaking of the temple of His body. (which can be construed as us also)but, v22 When therefore He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken.

    The conversation ended.

    She may have just wrote it off as me having a bad bible. I'm not sure if their bible eliminates vs 22. That's why I've heard its good refuting them with their edition. They couldn't change everything, it would be to obvious a hatchet job.

    I like how he put that, "A stone in their shoe." Get them pondering and questioning there own doctrine makes it a bit better for the next christian to add to the stones size.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Jehovah's Witnesses question
    By mortehoe in forum Christians Answer
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Mar 22nd 2009, 04:55 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •