Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38

Thread: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    Blog Entries
    5

    Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    I was just reading in Genesis, and noticed a couple more places (there are tons I know) where numbers seem significant, but I wonder why God uses them like He does. Like 12 tribes, 12 disciples, etc.

    These two verses for example as well:

    Genesis 46

    15 These were the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Padan Aram, with his daughter Dinah. All the persons, his sons and his daughters, were thirty-three.

    33 seems significant (to me) of course because this is how old they determine Jesus was when He was crucified, and resurrected.

    Genesis 46

    27 And the sons of Joseph who were born to him in Egypt were two persons. All the persons of the house of Jacob who went to Egypt were seventy.

    This one caught my eye because there were 70 ( or was it 72) disciples sent out to teach the Gospel.

    I see these numbers everywhere so thought it might be interesting to get input from some of you on your take, on the numbers you see that are significant. They must all be significant since God makes a point of telling us "how many".

    If you can think of unusual examples or maybe something few notice, I would love to see those numbers, and how you think they relate, why God used that amount ysic

  2. #2

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Speaking of the number 12, I often wondered if the 12 disciples were connected to the 12 tribes of Israel. Was it one disciple from each of the 12 tribes?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bnjmn View Post
    Speaking of the number 12, I often wondered if the 12 disciples were connected to the 12 tribes of Israel. Was it one disciple from each of the 12 tribes?
    I don't have a clue, but I do feel there is a connection There were 12 sons of Jacob, so they were who the tribes were named after, I think?? Ok I think Ephraim and Mannesah, Josephs sons had tribes named after them, not sure, more research

  4. #4

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Correct. Jacob was renamed Israel. His 12 sons were the 12 tribes of Israel. Each tribe was made up of Israel's sons each of whom fathered each tribe.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bnjmn View Post
    Correct. Jacob was renamed Israel. His 12 sons were the 12 tribes of Israel. Each tribe was made up of Israel's sons each of whom fathered each tribe.
    Yes, I believe you are correct because grandsons are included in Jacob's/Israel's sons.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,320
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Jacob (Israel) had 12 sons via 4 different mothers. Not all of them became actual tribes that received property. Levi was not given any property in the promised land but his people were scattered about as priest throughout the other tribes and Joseph was not a tribe. His two sons, Manessah and Ephraim were 1/2 tribes.

    Leah (the wife he hated) had Reuben (1), Simeon (2), Levi (3), Judah (4), Issachar (9), and Zebulun (10).

    Rachel (Jacob's favorite wife) had Joseph (11) (his favorite son) and Benjamin (12) (she died having him and was buried in Bethlehem).

    Leah's servant girl (concubine #1), Zilpah had Gad (7) and Asher (8).

    Rachel's servant girl (concubine #2), Bilhah had Dan (5) and Naphtali (6).
    ".....it's your nickel"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    Jacob (Israel) had 12 sons via 4 different mothers. Not all of them became actual tribes that received property. Levi was not given any property in the promised land but his people were scattered about as priest throughout the other tribes and Joseph was not a tribe. His two sons, Manessah and Ephraim were 1/2 tribes.

    Leah (the wife he hated) had Reuben (1), Simeon (2), Levi (3), Judah (4), Issachar (9), and Zebulun (10).

    Rachel (Jacob's favorite wife) had Joseph (11) (his favorite son) and Benjamin (12) (she died having him and was buried in Bethlehem).

    Leah's servant girl (concubine #1), Zilpah had Gad (7) and Asher (8).

    Rachel's servant girl (concubine #2), Bilhah had Dan (5) and Naphtali (6).
    Oh wonderful, thank you jayne ysic

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,320
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bnjmn View Post
    Speaking of the number 12, I often wondered if the 12 disciples were connected to the 12 tribes of Israel. Was it one disciple from each of the 12 tribes?
    With Peter/Andrew and James/John being sets of brothers, it would be impossible to have 12 tribes represented. I'm not sure if we know of any tribe's association with a particular disciple.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    With Peter/Andrew and James/John being sets of brothers, it would be impossible to have 12 tribes represented. I'm not sure if we know of any tribe's association with a particular disciple.
    I don't know either Jayne, but the way Judah sold Joseph sounds like Judas. Off-hand, and I am tired this evening, that is all I can think of at the moment

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    True north strong and free
    Posts
    6,334

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    As far as I know, the twelve disciples were highly symbolic of the 12 tribes, but each was not a specific representative of each tribe.
    It is only the cynic who claims “to speak the truth” at all times and in all places to all men in the same way, but who, in fact, displays nothing but a lifeless image of the truth… He dons the halo of the fanatical devotee of truth who can make no allowance for human weaknesses; but, in fact, he is destroying the living truth between men. He wounds shame, desecrates mystery, breaks confidence, betrays the community in which he lives, and laughs arrogantly at the devastation he has wrought and at the human weakness which “cannot bear the truth”. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in Ethics.


  11. #11

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    This is highly reminiscent of the allegorical approach used in a second-century Christian text, called the Epistle of Barnabas. He allegorizes several details in the Old Testament, based on nothing more than his personal whims and imagination.

    We have to be careful not to read more into numbers than is intended by the authors. If Jacob had thirty-three sons and daughters, then that is all it means. The bible does not say how old Jesus was during his ministry or at the time of his crucifixion, only that he was 'about' thirty years old when he was baptized. If Jacob had seventy people total under the jurisdiction of his clan or 'house', then that is all it means. Any connection to the seventy disciples sent out by Jesus is superfluous.

    When we try to turn this or that number into an allegorical foreshadowing of things from the New Testament without anything in the text itself to demonstrate such a connection, then it is more likely we are running off of our personal whims and imagination. This is not a wise approach to take when studying the bible.

  12. #12

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oregongrown View Post
    I don't know either Jayne, but the way Judah sold Joseph sounds like Judas.
    Some of Joseph's brothers try to murder him. Judah comes to Joseph's defense by convincing his brothers to sell Joseph into slavery for twenty pieces of silver.

    For thirty pieces of silver, one of Jesus' disciples, Judah, succeeds in turning him over to the temple authorities to be killed. He later regrets this decision and kills himself. Jesus is killed anyway.

    The only parallel is a person named Judah, but in fact, 'Judah' was a very common name in the first-century Judea: one of Jesus' brothers was named Judah (Mark 6.3), one of the other twelve disciples was named Judah (Luke 6.16; John 14.22), a false messiah was named Judah (Acts 5.37), a Christian in Damascus was named Judah (Acts 9.11), and a Christian prophet named Barsabbas was named Judah (Acts 15.22).

    It does not mean anything.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,640
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by exitludos View Post
    Some of Joseph's brothers try to murder him. Judah comes to Joseph's defense by convincing his brothers to sell Joseph into slavery for twenty pieces of silver.

    For thirty pieces of silver, one of Jesus' disciples, Judah, succeeds in turning him over to the temple authorities to be killed. He later regrets this decision and kills himself. Jesus is killed anyway.

    The only parallel is a person named Judah, but in fact, 'Judah' was a very common name in the first-century Judea: one of Jesus' brothers was named Judah (Mark 6.3), one of the other twelve disciples was named Judah (Luke 6.16; John 14.22), a false messiah was named Judah (Acts 5.37), a Christian in Damascus was named Judah (Acts 9.11), and a Christian prophet named Barsabbas was named Judah (Acts 15.22).

    It does not mean anything.
    Thank you for your input

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Rabun Gap, Georgia
    Posts
    314

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    The number 40 is a lot of places: it is late so I am not going to even google them however, 40 days in the ark; 40 years of wandering; and more that escape me right now- but maybe worth you looking into, oregongrown?? if it intrests you.

    We all have different 'I wonder''s.

    Some things we are just not to know but I don't think God frowns on us for wondering. After all, He knows we are going to do so... and He created all the wonderous things to wonder about.!

    IMHO, it's ok to be a little light hearted at times. Perhaps this is some of the joy of the Lord for one, and perhaps not, for another.

    If we were all the same, we would be a boring lot- I don't think think curosity is a bad thing.

    Of course, if someone disagrees, then one has to do what one thinks is right for them...

    Praying for you all to experience a blessed evening
    dani
    If someone's name comes to mind ~ pray; you may be the only person who EVER prays for them...

  15. #15

    Re: Numbers, and more numbers, God must love Math;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oregongrown View Post
    I was just reading in Genesis, and noticed a couple more places (there are tons I know) where numbers seem significant, but I wonder why God uses them like He does. Like 12 tribes, 12 disciples, etc.

    These two verses for example as well:

    Genesis 46

    15 These were the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Padan Aram, with his daughter Dinah. All the persons, his sons and his daughters, were thirty-three.

    33 seems significant (to me) of course because this is how old they determine Jesus was when He was crucified, and resurrected.

    Genesis 46

    27 And the sons of Joseph who were born to him in Egypt were two persons. All the persons of the house of Jacob who went to Egypt were seventy.

    This one caught my eye because there were 70 ( or was it 72) disciples sent out to teach the Gospel.

    I see these numbers everywhere so thought it might be interesting to get input from some of you on your take, on the numbers you see that are significant. They must all be significant since God makes a point of telling us "how many".

    If you can think of unusual examples or maybe something few notice, I would love to see those numbers, and how you think they relate, why God used that amount ysic


    Dear Denise

    Truly everything God does and says is significant, including the numbers as you have very well pointed out. The biblical text defines what each number means when we read it line upon line and precept upon precept as you are doing.


    The number 33 means PROMISE as defined by the text itself as follows.


    Gen 46:1 And Israel took his journey with all that he had, and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices unto the God of his father Isaac.

    46:2 And God spake unto Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob, Jacob. And he said, Here am I.

    46:3 And he said, I am God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation:




    In Gen 46:2-4, God speaks to Jacob and tells him to go into Egypt and God makes the PROMISE to "make of thee a great nation" to Jacob and also that God will be with him to bring him out of Egypt again. God also promises that Jacob will see Joseph



    46:4 I will go down with thee into Egypt; and I will also surely bring thee up again: and Joseph shall put his hand upon thine eyes.

    46:5 And Jacob rose up from Beersheba: and the sons of Israel carried Jacob their father, and their little ones, and their wives, in the wagons which Pharaoh had sent to carry him.

    46:6 And they took their cattle, and their goods, which they had gotten in the land of Canaan, and came into Egypt, Jacob, and all his seed with him:

    46:7 His sons, and his sons' sons with him, his daughters, and his sons' daughters, and all his seed brought he with him into Egypt.

    46:8 And these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn.

    46:9 And the sons of Reuben; Hanoch, and Phallu, and Hezron, and Carmi.

    46:10 And the sons of Simeon; Jemuel, and Jamin, and Ohad, and Jachin, and Zohar, and Shaul the son of a Canaanitish woman.

    46:11 And the sons of Levi; Gershon, Kohath, and Merari.

    46:12 And the sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah, and Pharez, and Zarah: but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan. And the sons of Pharez were Hezron and Hamul.

    46:13 And the sons of Issachar; Tola, and Phuvah, and Job, and Shimron.

    46:14 And the sons of Zebulun; Sered, and Elon, and Jahleel.

    46:15 These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.


    The number 33 is PROMISE as defined by the text because God made a promise to Jacob



    Regarding the number 70 in the Bible, as defined by the text itself 70 means UNIVERSALITY, ISRAEL AND HER RESTORATION

    Gen 46:27 And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.


    Universality because "ALL the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten"

    Universality means ALL and being sent to Egypt to be with Joseph brought restoration to Israel.


    Hope this helps!

    In the name of Jesus aka Yeshua,
    Love Fountain

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Some Numbers
    By SirToady in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Apr 24th 2012, 12:03 AM
  2. Discussion Some Numbers
    By SirToady in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Apr 21st 2012, 10:36 PM
  3. So, ya want numbers...
    By IMINXTC in forum Christian Fellowship
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: Mar 22nd 2010, 03:40 AM
  4. Numbers 4:6
    By Christian Surname in forum Christians Answer
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Nov 11th 2008, 08:45 PM
  5. Numbers 10:29 - 32
    By Christian Surname in forum Christians Answer
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Nov 11th 2008, 01:12 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •