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Thread: Great will be the Day

  1. #1
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    Great will be the Day

    Great will be the Day of the Lord’s Planting Isaiah 4:2
    Hosea 1:1-6 The Word of the Lord came to Hosea: Go take a prostitute as your wife. Have children by her, for like an unfaithful woman My people have been unfaithful to their God. Call your son Jezreel, for very soon I will punish Israel and bring their kingly dynasty to an end. Gomer conceived again and bore a daughter. Call her Lo-ruhamah, for I shall no longer show love for Israel and will totally remove them.
    Hosea 1:7-9 But Judah, I will love and save, not by any weapon of war, just by My power. Then Gomer bore another son. Call him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people and I shall no longer be your God.
    Hosea 1:10-11 The Israelites shall be as countless as the sands of the sea and it will no longer be said of them: You are not My people, for they will be called ‘Children of the Living God’. The people of Judah and Israel will be re-united and will choose for themselves one leader, for they will re-inhabit the Holy Land. Great will be the Day of Jezreel!
    Hosea 2:1 You are to say to your brothers: ‘You are the Lord’s people’, and to your sisters ‘You are loved’. Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.

    My comments and scripture references;
    I will punish Israel, totally remove them’, The Northern ten tribes conquered by Assyria in 722/21 BCE, but completely taken out of the Land in 718 BCE by Sargon 2.
    their kingly dynasty ended’, The kings of Israel were not from the Davidic line.
    Judah, I will save’, Judah were spared by Assyria, but 130 years later they were taken into captivity by Babylon, cast off by God and called ’not My people’,for their sins.
    ‘The Israelites: countless numbers’, All of the 12 tribes of Israel remain scattered around the world, only God knows exactly who they are. Amos 9:9
    ‘Judah and Israel re-united’, the great prophecies of Ezekiel 37:1-28
    choose one leader’, This undeniably places the return of the Israelites to the Promised Land before the Return of Jesus. Jeremiah 30:21, Isaiah 62:1-5
    the Day of Jezreel’, Hebrew= God sows or plants. This refers to the extensively prophesied great Day of the Lord, when He punishes His enemies and at the same time, saves and protects His people. Isaiah 30:26 tells us how the punishment is instigated and that the Lord will ‘bind up the wounds of His people’. That is: once again care for them and gather them back to their heritage. In all of the holy Land, the Lord’s people, that is: true Christians, be they actual descendants of Jacob or grafted in, will live as always intended, being ‘a light to the nations’ and sending out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus.
    Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 50:4-5, Hosea 2:14, Hosea 8:10, Hosea 11:10-11, Joel 3:7, Zephaniah 3:20, Zechariah 8:7-8, Deuteronomy 30:1-5, Psalm 147:2, Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 49:3-6, Isaiah 51:11, Jeremiah 31:1-14, Jeremiah 32:37-44, Ezekiel 11:17, Ezekiel 20:34, Ezekiel 36:9-12, Acts 3:17-26

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    You quoted, as a reference, among others, Deuteronomy 30:1-5. But these verses clearly say that the condition for God to reverse the dispersion, is that a remnant would, with all their heart and soul, keep what Moses was commanding "that day" (vs.2, 8). On "that day" Moses was commanding the Law. I dare say that the first half of what you understand and have written is correct, but what have Christians to do with the Law? And which Christians are dispersed among the nations? They belong there - were born there, not dispersed there.

    Could it not be that these prophecies from Isaiah and Hosea (and many others) ONLY pertain to Israel? After all, the 144'000 of Revelation 7 also only pertain to the 12 Tribes. And they are sealed for protection, not empowered for the gospel. The other 144'000, those of Revelation 14, could not, for various reasons, be Jews.

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    Re. the Law: the New Covenant surpasses the Old and we Christians must keep it, 'heart and soul'.

    Re. the Lord's people: Whether we are true descendants of Jacob, [Jews or from the ten tribes, still scattered among the nations] or grafted in, we will be gathered and judged, as Ezekiel 20:34-38. 'Those who revolt and rebel will not set foot on the soil of the holy Land'. Of course we were born in each of our countries, but God knows our ancestry, Amos 9:9 and He will assign the tribal affiliation for each of us. We are now 'as many as the sands of the sea', far more than those who call themselves Jewish.

    Re. the 144,000: Rev.14:1-7 also tells about them. They are 'ransomed as firstfruits of mankind for God and the Lamb'. Then we are given the metaphor of 'an angel flying in mid heaven, proclaiming the gospel to every race tribe and nation'. That this is metaphorical is obvious, because people would be terrified having a U.F.O. shouting at them from the sky. No it is the 144,000 who will go out in pairs telling all the world the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. The precursor to this is in Luke 10:1-12.

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    Jeremiah 25:30-38 The Lord roars from on high. He thunders from His holy place. He roars loudly against His holy Land and like a grape treader He shouts against all the inhabitants of the earth. The great noise is heard around the world. For the Lord brings His judgement against the nations, He arraigns all mankind and has handed over the wicked and godless to the sword.
    The Lord says, ‘Disaster spreads from nation to nation, a mighty tempest is unleashed, that will blast to every corner of the world’. Those whom the Lord has killed on that Day will be strewn from one end of the earth to the other, they will not be mourned or buried, but left as dung upon the ground.
    Cry out you bad shepherds and useless leaders of My people, the Day comes for your demise, you will fall like prize rams to the slaughter. There will be no escape from the Lord’s fierce anger, like a lion leaping to the kill.
    Disaster will suddenly strike and their land will become desolate because of the fiery wrath of the Lord
    . Ref: REB, CJB.

    My comments and scripture references:
    It is now time to realize that this terrible, worldwide disaster is soon to happen. In no way has this prophecy been fulfilled yet and this cannot be at the Return, as before that: ‘He thunders from His holy place’. Psalm 18:13
    Many other prophesies vividly describe this sudden and shocking, one Day event as fire from the heavens, as a coronal mass ejection sunstrike that will literally fulfill all of them. Psalm 83 tells how fire and tempest will destroy those attackers of Israel and details like ‘the sky rolled up like a scroll’, and the ‘moon blood red’, are also literal effects of an earth directed CME. Isaiah 30:26, 2 Peter 3:10
    The millions killed on that Day won’t be buried because there won’t be many survivors to do that and the extreme heat of a CME and the fires caused by it, will reduce them to ash. Malachi 4:3, Jeremiah 9:22
    Those who have led the people astray with their false teachings, fictional books and poor leadership will be judged and punished on that Day. Micah 3:1-4, Isaiah 56:10-12

    The world as we know it now, will not continue for much longer, prophecy is given to us as a warning of what will happen and to be mentally and physically prepared, so we can stay strong and keep trusting in the Lord to keep us safe, because we know His plans for His own people. Jeremiah 29:11
    Colossians 1:11-12 In His glorious might may He give you ample strength to meet with fortitude and patience whatever comes and to give joyful thanks to the Father who has made you fit to share in the heritage of God’s people in the Kingdom of Light.

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    You quoted, as a reference, among others, Deuteronomy 30:1-5. But these verses clearly say that the condition for God to reverse the dispersion, is that a remnant would, with all their heart and soul, keep what Moses was commanding "that day" (vs.2, 8). On "that day" Moses was commanding the Law. I dare say that the first half of what you understand and have written is correct, but what have Christians to do with the Law? And which Christians are dispersed among the nations? They belong there - were born there, not dispersed there.

    Could it not be that these prophecies from Isaiah and Hosea (and many others) ONLY pertain to Israel? After all, the 144'000 of Revelation 7 also only pertain to the 12 Tribes. And they are sealed for protection, not empowered for the gospel. The other 144'000, those of Revelation 14, could not, for various reasons, be Jews.
    Why can't the 144K from Rev 14 be Jews? I am not seeing this.

  6. #6

    Re: Great will be the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    Why can't the 144K from Rev 14 be Jews?
    1. They have to be of the same type as the Harvest, i.e., believers.

    2. The twelve tribes, while "of" Israel, are a unique listing unlike any other in the whole Bible. Since John and God (from whom this revelation comes) know their tribes, this listing may represent the spiritual Israel Paul said the Church was.

    3. The Jews are sheltered during the second half of the one 'seven' in Revelations' twin parallel accounts of chapter 12.

  7. #7

    Re: Great will be the Day

    This is an interesting thread, I just love those subjects that make us have to go into the Old Testament and study. While I was reading Hosea I came across a interesting quote that I also remember reading in Romans. In the second chapter of Hosea the prophet has described Israel's sins and transgressions and being unfaithfulness. They have played the harlot by following other Gods. (2:1-5) therefore captivity is certain.

    But because of the love God has for his people he will betroth them back to himself, he will deliver them from captivity and bring comfort to them (2:14-23).

    The quote came from Hosea when he was speaking of the comfort he would bring them on that day, the question always comes up; what days are the prophet talking about?

    The quote is in Romans 9 taken from verse 23 of Hosea 2.

    Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
    Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
    Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
    Romans 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

    The apostle clearly attributes the blessings that (not only the Jews but also the Gentiles) are enjoying because of the work of Jesus on the cross. He says they are enjoying those blessings now not sometime in the future when Israel is supposedly brought back to the land of Palestine.

    Peter confirms that what was spoken by Hosea pertains to the church at hand in 1 Peter 2:10, there he quotes Hosea's passage again.

    1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
    1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    I'm not trying to throw a wrench in your theology but the bible is very clear that what Hosea prophesied has happened already.

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    All of Abraham's descendents, both Jew and Gentile, who by faith follow Christ, are the children of Abraham.

    Scripture tells us that those who reject Christ are not the children of Abraham, regardless of their lineage.

    Bloodlines and pedigrees mean nothing today. Where is your heart? What or more importantly, Who is your faith in?

    God is calling all human beings to faith in Jesus Christ; that is all that matters. Those alone are all of the true children of Abraham.

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    Re: Why can't the 144,000 be Jews? The list of the 12 tribes in Rev. includes Judah and Benjamin - the Jewish people, but the other 10 tribes are not Jews and they have not rejoined as yet. To say they have does not fit with what will happen when they do; as described in Ezekiel 37.

    Yes Bro Berry, we do now experience the benefits of Christ's redemptive work. However, there is much more to come; 'in the place where it was said to them: 'you are not My people', they will be called: 'children of the Living God'. This is paralleled by Ezekiel 20:34-38 when the Lord's people, be they true descendants of Jacob or grafted in, but all of them righteous Christians, are gathered and settled into their heritage as a Royal Priesthood, a chosen nation. Isaiah 62:1-5 So the days that Hosea was prophesying about will happen soon after all the holy Land is cleared and cleansed by the Day of the Lord's wrath. That great second Exodus, Isaiah 11:11-12 literally fulfils many prophesies and God's promises to the Patriarchs.

    David Taylor, You are correct, God sees into the heart, He knows our true loyalties. But be aware that the Northern ten tribes of Israel were dispersed among the nations in 721-718 BCE. This separation into 2 nations was God's plan and He said that the House of Israel would lose its identity, but the House of Judah would remain as a visible entity. It is provable that The Western nations consist of a proportion of Israelite descendants. As we see they are also the Christian nations. Sadly they have backslidden from the days of revival and great missionary endeavour, God is about to instigate the ' roar from Heaven and the shaking of the nations'.

  10. #10

    Re: Great will be the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by keras View Post
    Yes Bro Berry, we do now experience the benefits of Christ's redemptive work. However, there is much more to come; 'in the place where it was said to them: 'you are not My people', they will be called: 'children of the Living God'. This is paralleled by Ezekiel 20:34-38 when the Lord's people, be they true descendants of Jacob or grafted in, but all of them righteous Christians, are gathered and settled into their heritage as a Royal Priesthood, a chosen nation. Isaiah 62:1-5 So the days that Hosea was prophesying about will happen soon after all the holy Land is cleared and cleansed by the Day of the Lord's wrath. That great second Exodus, Isaiah 11:11-12 literally fulfils many prophesies and God's promises to the Patriarchs.
    I hope you don't mind me taking the scriptures that you quote and explain them in context, so much confusion arises in biblical interpretation because verses are either taken out of context or the whole chapter is not read. If we keep reading in Ezekiel we will see the time frame for the prophecy, you stopped at verse 38 of chapter 20 but let's just keep reading from verse 39 to verse 40.

    Ezekiel 20:39 As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.
    Ezekiel 20:40 For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.

    Question:what is the holy mountain?

    Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
    Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    The house of the Lord was established in Jerusalem on the first Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus.

  11. #11

    Re: Great will be the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by keras View Post
    David Taylor, You are correct, God sees into the heart, He knows our true loyalties. But be aware that the Northern ten tribes of Israel were dispersed among the nations in 721-718 BCE. This separation into 2 nations was God's plan and He said that the House of Israel would lose its identity, but the House of Judah would remain as a visible entity. It is provable that The Western nations consist of a proportion of Israelite descendants. As we see they are also the Christian nations. Sadly they have backslidden from the days of revival and great missionary endeavour, God is about to instigate the ' roar from Heaven and the shaking of the nations'.
    Again I hope you don't mind me using the verses you quote. You are correct in saying that the 12 tribes were divided, 10 went to the north and formed Israel and 2 in the south forming Judah. You are also correct in saying the 10 tribes would be taken into captivity and dispersed among the nations. But when you say Judah would remain as a visible entity and that there are those in other nations that are decedents of Judah you're overlooking one thing. Judah was to remain forever as long as they followed the commands of the Lord. If they refused (and they did) they too would be taken away captive and dispersed.

    Jeremiah 17:24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein;
    Jeremiah 17:25 Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever.
    Jeremiah 17:26 And they shall come from the cities of Judah, and from the places about Jerusalem, and from the land of Benjamin, and from the plain, and from the mountains, and from the south, bringing burnt offerings, and sacrifices, and meat offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of praise, unto the house of the LORD.
    Jeremiah 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by keras View Post
    But be aware that the Northern ten tribes of Israel were dispersed among the nations in 721-718 BCE. This separation into 2 nations was God's plan and He said that the House of Israel would lose its identity, but the House of Judah would remain as a visible entity. It is provable that The Western nations consist of a proportion of Israelite descendants. As we see they are also the Christian nations. Sadly they have backslidden from the days of revival and great missionary endeavour, God is about to instigate the ' roar from Heaven and the shaking of the nations'.
    Physical ethnicity or ancestry is irrlevant today.

    God calls each human being to His Son. Each have a choice to accept and follow, or remain in sinful rejection, following the ways of the world.

    God's shaking the nations began 20 centuries ago, when the witnesses of the risen Christ took the gospel to all nations for the first time.

    There is no House of Israel or House of Judah identity anymore; that O.T. distinction is long faded away. Now, there is only one house according to God:

    I Timothy 3:15 "the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

    I Timothy 1:4 "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."

    Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    That there is still a part for the true Israelites to play is made clear by how the 144,000 is selected from them. Of course they must be righteous Christians, who knows? [actually God does- Amos 9:9] maybe they will come from China and Korea, seeing as the Western nations are so apostate now. However the historical, archaeological, linguistic, etc, information points to the West for the main dispersal of Israel. Also to deny this truth, you must abrogate Deut 4:31, Psalm 105:7-11 & 42, Jer 33:23-26.

    BB, your post #11, is right, Judah were taken from the holy Land by Babylon, then Rome, but note in Ezekiel 21:14 that there will be three 'swings of the sword' for Judah. Now the 'fig tree has budded' and Judah are back in part of the holy Land. This Great Day of the Lord will be the third judgement/punishment for them. Ezekiel 20:45-48, Eze 21:1-7
    With your post #10, you confuse the spiritual House of the Lord, as we have at present, with the new Temple to be built by Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 40 to 48, Zech 6:16

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    Why can't the 144K from Rev 14 be Jews? I am not seeing this.
    Revelation 14:1-5
    "1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."
    1. Mount Sion here must be the heavenly Zion because the 24 Elders are present. They are heavenly creatures (Chapter 4). No Jews ever go to heaven except Elijah and our Lord Jesus.
    2. They have Jehovah's name written on their foreheads because they are with the Lamb. Israel denied and murdered, and today denies and rejects, the Lamb.

    "2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:"
    1. The scene again is heaven. No Jews are raptured to heaven except the two mentioned above.

    "3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."
    1. Again, the scene is heaven. Added to this no Jews are redeemed from the earth. In Ephesians 1:14 and 4:30 this redemption is the redemption of the body in resurrection. In 2nd Corinthians 5:1-4;
    • death makes a man is naked, so he could not appear before the throne in heaven
    • in resurrection we get a "heavenly body"

    2. These 144'000 have "foreheads" indicating that they have bodies

    "4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."
    1. The Jews are constantly accused of "whoring", so these cannot be the Jews
    2. These are "virgins". The only "virgins" of the New Testament are Christians (2nd Cor.11:2)
    3. The Jews did not follow the Lamb "withsoever" He went. They rejected and murdered Him
    4. The only "firstfruits" to both God and the Lamb are Christians (Rom.16:5; 1st Cor.16:15; Jas.1:18)

    "5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."
    1. The Jews' mouths proclaimed Caesar as their king, and Christ's blood upon them and their children
    2. The remnant of the Jews who are "sealed" for protection in Chapter 7 are not followers of Christ. They are those who return to the Law of Moses (Deut.30:1-5). Although God has set this standard for the restoration of Israel, the fact that they still reject Christ makes them "at fault".

    And finally, there is not a single indication in these verses that they are Jews.

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    Re: Great will be the Day

    The Bible story of Revelation 14:1-5 about the 144,000 must take place on earth. It clearly states that the 'Lamb' stands on Mt Zion, then in verse 2 'I heard a sound from heaven'.
    What people don't realise is that Jesus, [the Lamb] does reveal Himself before He Returns for His Millennial reign. Isaiah 24:25, 2 Thess. 1:10 It is Jesus that selects the 144,000 from all those righteous people, they go out to proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19, Isaiah 49:6 All are from every race, tribe and language, Rev 6:9, who have gathered in the holy Land after the disaster of the sixth seal. Psalm 107 In this forthcoming worldwide devastation and depopulation of all the holy Land, only a remnant of the Jewish people will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 31:5, Isaiah 4:3

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