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Thread: Only the elect are "worthy" to obtain the "age to come."

  1. #91
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    Re: Only the elect are "worthy" to obtain the "age to come."

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    The age to come is a reward. It is the eternal state.
    I can agree with that, but it is only a reward for those that obtain eternal life. And one of those rewards would be reigning with Christ a thousand years over the surviving mortals. But just because it is the eternal state for some, that doesn't mean it's the eternal state for all, since I'm pretty convinced there will be surviving mortals living on the planet at the time. mortals and the eternal state..that does not compute. But what does compute is mortals and immortals on the planet at the same time. Jesus clearly proved that reality when He rose from the dead and was physically among mortal men until He ascended.

  2. #92
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    Re: Only the elect are "worthy" to obtain the "age to come."

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    The first resurrection

    When you keep ignoring the fact that Christ’s resurrection was the “first resurrection” it is very difficult to have a reasonable, fruitful and objective conversation. What is more, you have to ignore historic fact. I’ve repeatedly showed you that His resurrection was the "first" or protos or the foremost in time, place, order and importance. Different New Testament Scriptures prove this. You totally undermine its importance from every angle with your paradigm. You make Scripture conflict with Scripture.

    Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first (or protos Strong’s 4416) resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

    Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn (or prototokos) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

    The word prototokos here is the combination of protos (Strong’s 4416) and tikto (Strong’s 5088). It means what it says.

    Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (or prototokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

    Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

    Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first (or protos Strong’s 4416) resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

    Those worthy

    Luke 20 is all about being "worthy" to inherit the age to come. This is what you are not seeing or addressing. It actually identifies those who are worthy to inherit the age to come and stipulates that they will not die. The reason for this is obviously they have been glorified at the resurrection. In your paradigm you have mortals, death and sin. It just doesn't seem to fit. This text negates the Premil view on Rev 20.

    The age to come is a reward. It is the eternal state. It is the new perfect glorified eternal earth. It is not some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age as you imagine.
    While I do see your point, why not let Revelation show us why it's called the first resurrection?

    Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


    Clearly when the dead live again, this is not the first resurrection. The first resurrection then has to proceed when the dead lived again, thus why it's called the first resurrection.

  3. #93
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    Re: Only the elect are "worthy" to obtain the "age to come."

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    The first resurrection

    When you keep ignoring the fact that Christ’s resurrection was the “first resurrection” it is very difficult to have a reasonable, fruitful and objective conversation. What is more, you have to ignore historic fact. I’ve repeatedly showed you that His resurrection was the "first" or protos or the foremost in time, place, order and importance. Different New Testament Scriptures prove this. You totally undermine its importance from every angle with your paradigm. You make Scripture conflict with Scripture.

    Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first (or protos Strong’s 4416) resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

    Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn (or prototokos) from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

    The word prototokos here is the combination of protos (Strong’s 4416) and tikto (Strong’s 5088). It means what it says.

    Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (or prototokos) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

    Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

    Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first (or protos Strong’s 4416) resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

    Those worthy

    Luke 20 is all about being "worthy" to inherit the age to come. This is what you are not seeing or addressing. It actually identifies those who are worthy to inherit the age to come and stipulates that they will not die. The reason for this is obviously they have been glorified at the resurrection. In your paradigm you have mortals, death and sin. It just doesn't seem to fit. This text negates the Premil view on Rev 20.

    The age to come is a reward. It is the eternal state. It is the new perfect glorified eternal earth. It is not some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age as you imagine.
    Forgot to mention this in my other post, but it's not so much that I disagree with you here, it's just that we can't get on the same page. I too see the first resurrection being Christ's, but I simply see it as being the resurrection of the just, as opposed to the resurrection of damnation, which are clearly two different types of resurrections.

  4. #94

    Re: Only the elect are "worthy" to obtain the "age to come."

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    While I do see your point, why not let Revelation show us why it's called the first resurrection?

    Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


    Clearly when the dead live again, this is not the first resurrection. The first resurrection then has to proceed when the dead lived again, thus why it's called the first resurrection.
    Whatever it is, participation in it qualifies humans victory over eternal punishment (the second death). This is when we identify with Christ's victorious resurrection upon salvation. Revelation 20:6 simply says, Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

    The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

    When we get saved we become one with Jesus Christ spiritually. We identify with Christ and the victory He won over sin, death and the grave. As He died, was buried and conquered death, we also have our “part” in His success.

    This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”

    When one gives their life to Christ they immediately become an overcomer. A Christian is an overcomer; they overcome the devil, the world and their flesh. This passage is simply talking about salvation. When someone gets saved they immediately delivered from the fear, penalty, and the eternal consequences of everlasting punishment.

    These two passages mirror each other. The reason being they are speaking about the same reality in the same age, spiritual victory in this current age. Like Revelation 20:6, this is speaking about a current spiritual state (salvation) that allows the Christian to escape eternal punishment.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  5. #95

    Re: Only the elect are "worthy" to obtain the "age to come."

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I can agree with that, but it is only a reward for those that obtain eternal life. And one of those rewards would be reigning with Christ a thousand years over the surviving mortals. But just because it is the eternal state for some, that doesn't mean it's the eternal state for all, since I'm pretty convinced there will be surviving mortals living on the planet at the time. mortals and the eternal state..that does not compute. But what does compute is mortals and immortals on the planet at the same time. Jesus clearly proved that reality when He rose from the dead and was physically among mortal men until He ascended.
    What you are missing is that actually entering the age to come is the reward. It is an age of no dying or no marrying. Basically we are looking at the eternal state. This proves Amil and rebukes Premil.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  6. #96

    Re: Only the elect are "worthy" to obtain the "age to come."

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Forgot to mention this in my other post, but it's not so much that I disagree with you here, it's just that we can't get on the same page. I too see the first resurrection being Christ's, but I simply see it as being the resurrection of the just, as opposed to the resurrection of damnation, which are clearly two different types of resurrections.
    There are two resurrections from the grave to the realm of Heaven. They are mentioned five times in the Bible starting in Daniel 12. They are in the Gospel message from Jesus three times, and one of them is in the eschatological Olivet Discourse. The last is in Revelation, which reveals as its nature.

    There is another resurrection to an earthly life in Ezekiel. It is buttressed by another prophecy in Ezekiel whereby the Lord sets aside people who have lived before, who live again, to serve Him on the earth during the Sabbath Millennial of the Lord's Reign.

    We know from Jesus' explanation to John in Revelation of what is to come, that a thousand years separates the two Resurrections from the grave to Heaven.

    That time in-between is very important and it is part of God's Plan.

    Nothing in Luke chapter 20, where Jesus explains the difference between this "age" - which is not specifically defined by our Lord - and the next invalidates all the prophecy the Lord has also given us concerning the Millennium.

    Speaking to the Church, Jesus in Luke 20, which itself is a compilation of His Words for the Greeks, contrasts our time on earth during this Church Age with the unbroken time we will have with the Lord after the first Resurrection we will have in immortal and imperishable bodies, whether it is during the Millennial or after with the New Heavens and New Earth. There is no distinction in our roles between those two settings: the rules are the same. We will not marry each other because we collectively are Christ's Bride. We will not die because we are given one body and that is immortal. Nothing there precludes or invalidates the Millennial period Jesus said awaits us.

    To conclude, you're right Diva. There are different types of Resurrections and you can split them two ways.

    Resurrections can be to Heaven or the earth.
    Resurrections to Heaven can be either for only the Living (as Jesus explains in Luke 20:37-38) with the first Resurrection, or for both Living and Dead as with the second Resurrection after the Millennium.

    Either way you look at it, there are two different types of resurrections.

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