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Thread: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why not?

  1. #16

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by Karaite View Post
    I wonder if we could get David Taylor out of renovating.
    Paul, in the historical context of Ezekiel 33 and 39, if you were to put yourself in that timeframe and read the text you would be looking for return to the Land. As a careful student of the Bible I think you would agree with this right?
    What is the next disaster that came upon the people who returned and those still in the Persian empire? Remember there were 3 waves of returnees.
    What specific thing did God deliver them from? Hint :this became a jewish feast and it is not hunukkah
    Yes, Purim. Is that what you are pressing at?
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  2. #17

    Lightbulb Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by Laish View Post
    Ok maybe I am wrong and jumping in . The only one that comes to mind is Purim
    If that not it tell us I am not the type that can wait
    Blessings
    Bill
    Good stuff Bill!
    It is my belief that Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 are about the massacre that backfired on Haman.
    1.The bible ties in "Haman, the son of Hammedatha the Agagite" with Agag the king of the Amalekites, the archenemies of Israel, who were opposed and defeated by Saul
    Exodus 17:8-16 Deuteronomy 25:17-19 1 Samuel 14:47-15:35

    2.Mordecai was a descendant of Saul who overthrew Agog (1 Samuel 17:8-16)
    This sets up the animosity between Hamon (descendant of Agag) and Mordecai (descendant of Saul who overthrew Agag)

    3.This is to fulfill the prophesy from Numbers
    Numbers 24:20
    Then he looked on Amalek, and he took up his oracle and said:“Amalek was first among the nations,
    But shall be last until he perishes.
    -After the book of Esther, Agagite is never mentioned again

    4.First of the nations takes us to Genesis
    Genesis 10:2
    The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.
    -This is what Ezekiel 38 and 39 refers to.
    -The LXX uses Agag as "Gog"

    Numbers 24:7 LXX
    7 There shall come a man out of his seed, and he shall rule over many nations; and the kingdom of Gog shall be exalted,


    Numbers 24:7 NKJV
    He shall pour water from his buckets,
    And his seed shall be in many waters.
    “His king shall be higher than Agag,
    And his kingdom shall be exalted.


    I will slowly and methodically construct that this is the prophesy of the event that became memoralized by the feast of Purim, and that Hamon is Gog of Magog.
    That is about all I have time for right now, kids running around and this takes time as my memory is fading

  3. #18

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    That remnant integrated with the Gentiles into the Church of Jesus Christ and became true Israel. What we have in Palestine today is apostate Israel (Christ-rejecting Israel). They are the offspring of the Pharisees. They are not God's chosen people, neither are the children of promise, or are they true Jews. When you get to Rev they are described as the synagogue of Satan, Sodom and Egypt. Christ is still waiting, even though they are still rejecting.

    Romans 2:25-29 supports this, saying, if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit (pneuma).”

    A Jew today in God’s eyes is not physical but spiritual. Paul succinctly says, “he is a Jew, which is one inwardly.” Those that are born again, irrespective of nationality or color, are classed as true Jews.

    Romans chapter 9 says, they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham (in the flesh), are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed (vv 6-8).

    It is important to note that there are two Israels mentioned in these chapters – namely natural and spiritual Israel. What Paul is thus saying here is: “they are not all (spiritual) Israel, which are of (natural) Israel.”
    Exactly Paul! The eternal covenant has always been and will always be Israel of God, which is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles; IOW all the nations of the earth! Thank you!

  4. #19

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerW View Post
    Exactly Paul! The eternal covenant has always been and will always be Israel of God, which is comprised of both Jews and Gentiles; IOW all the nations of the earth! Thank you!
    Thanks! It is so simple. I think the only reason why people think otherwise is because of modern-day Dispensational influence.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  5. #20

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    Thanks! It is so simple. I think the only reason why people think otherwise is because of modern-day Dispensational influence.
    I agree. You and Bill and Dave Taylor as solid sola scriptura readers of the Bible should be having flashes going thru your mind of Ezekiel 38 and 39 with Esther,Ezra Nehemiah etc., as this is hardly exhaustive

  6. #21
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    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    So, according to the peanut gallery, 70 AD was the Lord throwing Israel away, right? As though God is not merciful enough to deliver an unworthy people from the consequences of their own making for the sake of His name alone.

    I will say this, if those who think they have replaced Israel are correct, then it is only a matter of time before God tires Himself of you too, and replace you with someone else. This is a consequence for thinking that Gentiles can replace Israel in the eyes of God.

    If I am correct, and 70 AD was just another dispersing of Israel due to their rejection of Jesus Christ, His Son, then the prophecy found in Ezekiel 36 has to be about 1948, since it is then that the nations recognized Israel as a nation, doing the exact same thing that Cyrus' proclamation did back during the Babylonian captivity. Instead, it is the League of Nations that proclaimed it into being, fulfilling this prophecy to the letter.

    Ezekiel 36:23-25
    I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

    24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.

    Who made the proclamation? The nations. They brought Israel back into being, just like the Medes did with Cyrus. Yet, since nothing happens apart from God's will, this restoration of Israel should honestly be accredited to God, who set the whole stage up for it to be as easy as it was to bring Israel back from the dead. Do the research and you will see just how God operates in the affairs of men. His Will is always done. He must have proclaimed it in the heavens. It is a pity that there were no human representatives spiritually present to witness this event. The people of the earth did exactly as the Lord required, and Israel is now a nation again.

    This is the consequence for believing that God has brought back Israel for the sake of His Name only; His words will never come back void, and there is not a sin that you can ask for forgiveness for that He will not forgive people of. He does not throw anyone that is His away. The Jews are indeed not following after God's law right now, but it is not on us to judge them, as all of you should very well know by now. According to Romans 11, they are in the same spiritual position as the rest of the world. That does not negate the status that they have with this physical world, due to the covenant with Moses. It is God who will judge them, and it would be foolish for Gentiles to claim that they have replaced ethnic Israel while being ignorant as to all of the ramifications of such statements. Ethnic Israel represent the nation that God physically rules over. Israel to the world is like Washington DC is with the United States. That is the covenant of Moses. God still has to defend Israel whenever they are attacked, unless it is God's will that they suffer the consequences for turning their backs on Him. It is not for us to judge the validity of Israel as a nation. What He does with that nation is for us to just bear witness to, not intervene.

  7. #22

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by the Seeker View Post
    So, according to the peanut gallery, 70 AD was the Lord throwing Israel away, right? As though God is not merciful enough to deliver an unworthy people from the consequences of their own making for the sake of His name alone.

    I will say this, if those who think they have replaced Israel are correct, then it is only a matter of time before God tires Himself of you too, and replace you with someone else. This is a consequence for thinking that Gentiles can replace Israel in the eyes of God.

    If I am correct, and 70 AD was just another dispersing of Israel due to their rejection of Jesus Christ, His Son, then the prophecy found in Ezekiel 36 has to be about 1948, since it is then that the nations recognized Israel as a nation, doing the exact same thing that Cyrus' proclamation did back during the Babylonian captivity. Instead, it is the League of Nations that proclaimed it into being, fulfilling this prophecy to the letter.

    Ezekiel 36:23-25
    I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

    24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.

    Who made the proclamation? The nations. They brought Israel back into being, just like the Medes did with Cyrus. Yet, since nothing happens apart from God's will, this restoration of Israel should honestly be accredited to God, who set the whole stage up for it to be as easy as it was to bring Israel back from the dead. Do the research and you will see just how God operates in the affairs of men. His Will is always done. He must have proclaimed it in the heavens. It is a pity that there were no human representatives spiritually present to witness this event. The people of the earth did exactly as the Lord required, and Israel is now a nation again.

    This is the consequence for believing that God has brought back Israel for the sake of His Name only; His words will never come back void, and there is not a sin that you can ask for forgiveness for that He will not forgive people of. He does not throw anyone that is His away. The Jews are indeed not following after God's law right now, but it is not on us to judge them, as all of you should very well know by now. According to Romans 11, they are in the same spiritual position as the rest of the world. That does not negate the status that they have with this physical world, due to the covenant with Moses. It is God who will judge them, and it would be foolish for Gentiles to claim that they have replaced ethnic Israel while being ignorant as to all of the ramifications of such statements. Ethnic Israel represent the nation that God physically rules over. Israel to the world is like Washington DC is with the United States. That is the covenant of Moses. God still has to defend Israel whenever they are attacked, unless it is God's will that they suffer the consequences for turning their backs on Him. It is not for us to judge the validity of Israel as a nation. What He does with that nation is for us to just bear witness to, not intervene.
    Seeker
    We are all at different levels of learning in our walk, and I am sure you are a fine upstanding Christian man.
    Your comments to me on the other thread on "the purpose of jesus's return".in regards to what you bet I believe was taken out of thin air with no context or reason to do so.
    I am sorry, but I am not interested in replying to you in that thread or this thread, as I am not into mindless bickering in which the goalpost keeps moving and words are put into my mouth.
    The post above is all over the map and is not even with the flow of conversation.
    If I am going to just bicker on here, my time would be wiser spent getting a few church members together and go to an anti missionary site or a JW site and defend and spread good news.
    I am interested in surrounding myself with the brightest minds on this site and sitting across the table and learning and sharing, if you want to argue then you are going to have to argue mindlessly with somebody else or yourself
    God bless
    One person from the peanut gallery

  8. #23
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    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.

  9. #24
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    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.
    If folks don't leave these people alone, especially professed Christians, they might find themselves on the wrong side of the battle when the LORD comes to fight for His people just like Zechariah 14 indicates. And then you would be absolutely correct when you said..."you will only find yourselves fighting against God". Exactly!

  10. #25

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    If folks don't leave these people alone, especially professed Christians, they might find themselves on the wrong side of the battle when the LORD comes to fight for His people just like Zechariah 14 indicates. And then you would be absolutely correct when you said..."you will only find yourselves fighting against God". Exactly!
    God's people are not Christ-rejecting Jews but born again believers (Jew and Gentile). You need to start reading the NT and you will see who God's elect are.

    The Jews boasted, “Abraham is our father (v39).

    Christ responds to this misguided boast of the religious Jews, saying, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father” (John 8:34-38).

    These religious Jews had no revelation of their own innate sin. They were depending upon their own self-righteousness. Little did they know it, but man’s only deliverer from sin was standing in their midst. Every man since Adam is born with original sin and therefore stands completely guilty before a righteous God. In the first Adam (the first nature) all are sinners and therefore destined to lost eternity. Jews and Gentiles approach God on the same grounds being collectively blighted with the same disfigurement – sin. They consequently require the same cure (the only medicine for this affliction) – the blood of Jesus. All men are on a level playing field when it comes to birth. All are equally required to submit to the exact same requirements – faith in Christ and repentance towards God.

    Whereupon Christ responded, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it” (vv 39-44).

    Here Christ hits them with the sobering truth. He identifies their true father as the devil. This would have been explosive to these religiously proud Jewish leaders. He advanced “If ye were Abraham's children” speaking in a spiritual sense, and “If God were your Father” also speaking spiritually, “ye would love me.” Here the evidence of being a true child of Abraham is shown to be ‘loving Christ’. This is Christ’s litmus test of a true child of Abraham and what it is to be part of God’s chosen people.

    Let us see what the Saviour said on this important matter. Jesus said in John 5:23b-24, “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

    Again this couldn’t be clearer. Those Jews and Gentiles that don’t accept Christ don’t accept the Father. Christ-rejecting Jews and Gentiles are under condemnation and are therefore of their father the devil.

    I John 2:22-23 solemnly asks, “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (or Messiah)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

    Jews who accept Christ as Saviour and Lord are true children of Abraham, Gentiles who accept Christ as Saviour and Lord are true children of Abraham. Jews who reject Christ as Saviour and Lord are not true children of Abraham, Gentiles who reject Christ as Saviour and Lord are not true children of Abraham.

    Jesus said in Luke 9:48, whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me.”

    The overwhelming amount of Jews for 2,000 years have rejected Christ, Christ will therefore reject them. Notwithstanding, there has always been a redeemed remnant that have accepted God's only provision for sin and uncleanness. Those that accepts Christ are accepted of the Father. Those that deny Him are denied by the Father.

    Jesus said in John 15:23, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.”

    How can they be of God's if they reject God's only means of reconciliation between man and God? You are presenting another gospel. The unsaved Jew does not receive Christ; therefore the Father does not receive him. He is not God's, he is the devil's. God's favour and blessing is upon those who accept His Son. His judgment is upon those who reject Him.

    Jesus said, in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

    If the Jew loves Christ He is one of God's chosen, if he doesn't he is under the wrath of God. Simple!!!
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  11. #26
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    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by the Seeker View Post
    Yet, since nothing happens apart from God's will, this restoration of Israel should honestly be accredited to God, who set the whole stage up for it to be as easy as it was to bring Israel back from the dead.

    If some in here are correct about their interpretations, it simply means that something as major as the Jews regathering back to their own land and becoming a nation once again in the eyes of the world, that they did this outside the will of God, and that not even God could stop them. It's ludicrous IMO that God was not behind the regathering some way, that they did this outside of His will. What I find interesting is this. There is a first coming and a 2nd coming, and I personally am convinced the latter is at the doors and will likely happen in my lifetime. At the first coming who was in the picture? Natural Israel. Weren't they regathered back to the land prior to the first coming? And weren't they then dispersed from the land via the events of 70 AD? And aren't they now back in the land? How can there not be a connection here to the will of God for these people and the 2nd coming?

  12. #27

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by the Seeker View Post
    So, according to the peanut gallery, 70 AD was the Lord throwing Israel away, right? As though God is not merciful enough to deliver an unworthy people from the consequences of their own making for the sake of His name alone.

    I will say this, if those who think they have replaced Israel are correct, then it is only a matter of time before God tires Himself of you too, and replace you with someone else. This is a consequence for thinking that Gentiles can replace Israel in the eyes of God.

    If I am correct, and 70 AD was just another dispersing of Israel due to their rejection of Jesus Christ, His Son, then the prophecy found in Ezekiel 36 has to be about 1948, since it is then that the nations recognized Israel as a nation, doing the exact same thing that Cyrus' proclamation did back during the Babylonian captivity. Instead, it is the League of Nations that proclaimed it into being, fulfilling this prophecy to the letter.

    Ezekiel 36:23-25
    I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

    24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.

    Who made the proclamation? The nations. They brought Israel back into being, just like the Medes did with Cyrus. Yet, since nothing happens apart from God's will, this restoration of Israel should honestly be accredited to God, who set the whole stage up for it to be as easy as it was to bring Israel back from the dead. Do the research and you will see just how God operates in the affairs of men. His Will is always done. He must have proclaimed it in the heavens. It is a pity that there were no human representatives spiritually present to witness this event. The people of the earth did exactly as the Lord required, and Israel is now a nation again.

    This is the consequence for believing that God has brought back Israel for the sake of His Name only; His words will never come back void, and there is not a sin that you can ask for forgiveness for that He will not forgive people of. He does not throw anyone that is His away. The Jews are indeed not following after God's law right now, but it is not on us to judge them, as all of you should very well know by now. According to Romans 11, they are in the same spiritual position as the rest of the world. That does not negate the status that they have with this physical world, due to the covenant with Moses. It is God who will judge them, and it would be foolish for Gentiles to claim that they have replaced ethnic Israel while being ignorant as to all of the ramifications of such statements. Ethnic Israel represent the nation that God physically rules over. Israel to the world is like Washington DC is with the United States. That is the covenant of Moses. God still has to defend Israel whenever they are attacked, unless it is God's will that they suffer the consequences for turning their backs on Him. It is not for us to judge the validity of Israel as a nation. What He does with that nation is for us to just bear witness to, not intervene.
    Jesus encountered the hostility of the religious Jews many times during His earthly ministry. They were by and large a people that had “a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof” (2 Timothy 3:5). Many times He presented them with the simple Gospel, and many times they rejected it. They were a people that had turned their back on the living God. Jesus declared to “the Jews” in John 10:27, after they questioned His deity, ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

    These religious zealots did not belong to the Israel of God – true Israel, they belonged to the natural seed of Abraham, not the spiritual seed. The belief that God has one plan of salvation for the ethnic relatives of Abraham and another for the Gentile people of the world is both mistaken and in conflict with clear and repeated Scripture. There is only one life-changing Gospel, containing one set of standards and requirements – it is open equally to both Jew and Gentile.

    In His earthly ministry, and knowing what was coming, Christ asked the religious Jewish leaders, “Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder” (Matthew 21 42-44).

    The kingdom has been taken from Israel as a nation and given to another nation – the largely Gentile New Testament Church – comprised of all believers (whether Jew or Gentile). Paul confirms in Romans 11 that all who part of the Church are grafted into the good olive tree – the Israel of God. This discourse showed these unbelieving religious Jews that because of their wanton rejection of Himself, Christ would extend His mercy to all nations. The near exclusive favour that natural Israel had formerly enjoyed would now be graciously widened to include the previously darkened Gentile people. Paul, speaking to the mainly Gentile church in Rome says, in Romans 11:20, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou (the Gentiles) standest by faith.”

    While God used the physical nation of Israel to be His sole national witness throughout the Old Testament period, the nation as a whole has not, or ever had, any divine favour, promises or salvation outside of Christ. He is man’s only Saviour. He is Israel’s great Messiah. He is the very essence of what Israel is all about. Christ is the fulfilment of every promise made unto Abraham and the redeemed Church throughout time. There are thus no promises or inheritances outside of Christ or His people, for through Him the Church throughout time has become “the children of promise” and the recipients of every spiritual blessing in Him. Ephesians 3:21 tells us: “Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.”

    The condition for participation in the good olive tree was not Israeli birth, albeit the overwhelming amount of individuals that made up the good olive tree in the Old Testament where Hebrews, it was faith. When it says the Gentiles have been grafted in, it is not all Gentiles, only those that are of the household of faith.

    The Jewish nation is no longer God’s chosen vehicle. Zechariah 11:9-13 predicts, referring to Christ’s earthly ministry, how God’s old covenant with Israel would be destroyed and how it would culminate in Judas’ betrayal (a poignant picture of the nation’s general rejection of Messiah) before the cross, saying, “I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD."

    The Lord confirms this in Matthew 22:1-14 with the parable of the wedding feast. Through the imaginary of a king and his subjects, He spoke of the invitation He extended to the Jewish nation – His intended guests. He showed how “they would not come” and how they made many pitiful excuses. In fact, “they made light” of the invitation “took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.” John 1:11 records, “He came unto his own, and his own received him not.” In fact, not only did they reject Him, they cruelly nailed Him to a tree. Since the cross the natural Jew has continued largely to rebel against God’s gracious provision for sin, Jesus Christ. The king being angry at this “sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.” The Lord was here speaking of AD70 and the destruction of the Israeli nation. Having rejected his offer, the king’s servants were instructed to go “into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.” This was a picture of the Gospel going out to the nations – those that had previously been aliens to the favour of God and salvation. Through the Jews wilful rejection of Christ, the Gentiles entered into God’s wonderful grace in their millions.

    The Gospel of God would no longer be restricted to one individual earthly nation but rather to a broad spiritual nation that was birthed from above. Verse 12 of our previous reading, in John 1:11, goes on to declare, “But as many as received him (both Jew and Gentile), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  13. #28

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    If some in here are correct about their interpretations, it simply means that something as major as the Jews regathering back to their own land and becoming a nation once again in the eyes of the world, that they did this outside the will of God, and that not even God could stop them. It's ludicrous IMO that God was not behind the regathering some way, that they did this outside of His will. What I find interesting is this. There is a first coming and a 2nd coming, and I personally am convinced the latter is at the doors and will likely happen in my lifetime. At the first coming who was in the picture? Natural Israel. Weren't they regathered back to the land prior to the first coming? And weren't they then dispersed from the land via the events of 70 AD? And aren't they now back in the land? How can there not be a connection here to the will of God for these people and the 2nd coming?
    Does the Jews today possess their ancient borders (or anything close to it)?
    What was God's OT criteria for Israel being dispossessed from the land?
    What was God's OT criteria for Israel possessing/returning to the land?
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  14. #29

    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    If folks don't leave these people alone, especially professed Christians, they might find themselves on the wrong side of the battle when the LORD comes to fight for His people just like Zechariah 14 indicates. And then you would be absolutely correct when you said..."you will only find yourselves fighting against God". Exactly!
    Why do Premils align with Christ-rejecting Jews in preference to fellow believers? Maybe it is because the paradigms are similar when it comes to the land, kingdom, temple, priesthood, and animal sacrifices - all the things that caused natural Israel to reject Christ!!!
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  15. #30
    Join Date
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    Re: Is the State of Israel that exists today the one Scripture speaks of? Why or why

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    Why do Premils align with Christ-rejecting Jews in preference to fellow believers? Maybe it is because the paradigms are similar when it comes to the land, kingdom, temple, priesthood, and animal sacrifices - all the things that caused natural Israel to reject Christ!!!
    Maybe because some of us know we are not to boast against the branches, and I for one fear saying anything against God's chosen people the Jews, such as their regathering in the 20th century was outside the will of God, and they took this upon themselves to regather like that, and that God simply despises them. Maybe God hasn't opened their eyes as of yet. Maybe that's the next thing on God's agenda for them.

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