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Thread: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

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    The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    The 2nd resurrection meaning this...But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. Then pertaining to Revelation 20:11-15.

    Since the text also mentions the first resurrection, will any of those of the first resurrection also be a part of the 2nd resurrection? Will any of those of the first resurrection also be judged at the GWTJ along side the wicked who get cast into the LOF?


    Whatever your position might be, please try to prove it via Scriptures rather than mere opinion alone.

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    The 2nd resurrection meaning this...But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. Then pertaining to Revelation 20:11-15.

    Since the text also mentions the first resurrection, will any of those of the first resurrection also be a part of the 2nd resurrection? Will any of those of the first resurrection also be judged at the GWTJ along side the wicked who get cast into the LOF?


    Whatever your position might be, please try to prove it via Scriptures rather than mere opinion alone.
    Scripture doesn't mention a 'second resurrection'.

    It mentions a 'first resurrection'; which Paul tells us in his writings is 'Jesus Christ'.

    Revelation does mention a second death.

    Those who partake of the 'First Resurrection' (Christ) do not partake of the 2nd Death (eternal separation from God).
    Those who partake of the 'First Resurrection' according to Jesus in John 14, shall never die. (of the second death).

    There is one group bodily glorified resurrection of mankind, according to Job, John, Isaiah, Acts, Daniel, I Corinthians, etc...

    Job 14:12 "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee"

    John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Isaiah 26:19 "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 0 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

    Acts 24:15 "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."

    Daniel 12:2 "them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. "

    Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. "

    To believe there are multiple groups of glorified bodily resurrections, is to create another resurrection, where scriptures says there is only one.

    I Cor 15:21 "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; [B][U]afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end....this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up"


    Scripture, both OT and NT; always talks about 'the resurrection' or 'the resurrection of the dead' always singular; never plural....never multiple resurrection groups, at different resurrection times.




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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Scripture doesn't mention a 'second resurrection'.

    It mentions a 'first resurrection'; which Paul tells us in his writings is 'Jesus Christ'.

    Revelation does mention a second death.

    Those who partake of the 'First Resurrection' (Christ) do not partake of the 2nd Death (eternal separation from God).
    Those who partake of the 'First Resurrection' according to Jesus in John 14, shall never die. (of the second death).

    There is one group bodily glorified resurrection of mankind, according to Job, John, Isaiah, Acts, Daniel, I Corinthians, etc...

    Job 14:12 "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee"

    John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Isaiah 26:19 "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 0 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

    Acts 24:15 "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."

    Daniel 12:2 "them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. "

    Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. "

    To believe there are multiple groups of glorified bodily resurrections, is to create another resurrection, where scriptures says there is only one.

    I Cor 15:21 "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; [B][U]afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end....this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up"


    Scripture, both OT and NT; always talks about 'the resurrection' or 'the resurrection of the dead' always singular; never plural....never multiple resurrection groups, at different resurrection times.



    Per the context of Rev 20 though, since there is a first resurrection, and then there is when the rest of the dead live again, and that this is not meaning the first resurrection, doesn't it stand to reason this is the 2nd resurrection then? Meaning in relation to the first, and meaning per this particular context in general. Even you being Amil, I don't see why you would conclude when the rest of the dead live again, that this is not the 2nd resurrection in relation to the first? What the OP is trying to determine overall, when the rest of the dead live again, call it the 2nd resurrection or not, does it also include any of those of the first resurrection? And if yes, what is the logic in being resurrected twice and at different times? Did Jesus need to be resurrected twice and at different times?

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post


    Scripture, both OT and NT; always talks about 'the resurrection' or 'the resurrection of the dead' always singular; never plural....never multiple resurrection groups, at different resurrection times.
    If a singular event, as in simultaneously, explain how the dead in Christ already rise before we who are still alive and remain, and at this point the beast and it's armies are still physically alive until they are confronted by Christ Himself? The ones Jesus kills in Rev 19, what resurrection do they rise in if this singular event already preceded their deaths?

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Some of my thoughts...,

    Not sure why the rest of the dead will have their bodies resurrected..., only to then have it destroyed again by fire almost immediately. Bodily resurrection speaks of reward, restoration and life.

    Those that take part in the first resurrection will not come into judgment of the second death.

    I see the first resurrection as a spirtual one ( born again ) and the second resurrection as our bodily one.
    All the dead great and small will come out of the tombs ,and those who partook of the first resurrection will be revealed as glorified when the book of life is opened at this time. ( why else is the book of life opened at this late hr if we were bodily resurrected ( revealed ) a thousand years before?)

    The rest of the dead will not have accepted Christ when they were alive... and had no part in the FR, and therefore will suffer eternal judgment...a second death.
    Participation in the first resurrection is a must for anyone who wants to live forever.

    see Jn 5 ,and Gods righteous judgment in 2thess 1.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Since the text also mentions the first resurrection, will any of those of the first resurrection also be a part of the 2nd resurrection?
    No. Those in the first resurrection reign the whole 1000 years. Therefore they are still alive when the 2nd resurrection takes place.

    Rev 20:4 ...And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    Will any of those of the first resurrection also be judged at the GWTJ along side the wicked who get cast into the LOF?
    No.

    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    The 2nd resurrection meaning this...But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. Then pertaining to Revelation 20:11-15.

    Since the text also mentions the first resurrection, will any of those of the first resurrection also be a part of the 2nd resurrection? Will any of those of the first resurrection also be judged at the GWTJ along side the wicked who get cast into the LOF?


    Whatever your position might be, please try to prove it via Scriptures rather than mere opinion alone.
    Well, the proof of who this involves is in the very Scriptures you are citing. The first resurrection excluded the wicked, being about those called to judge the earth and those who had been martyred by the Beast. So obviously the second resurrection had to be an occasion for which the wicked could be raised from the dead. And this is confirmed by the reference to the second death.

    But this 2nd resurrection must also include the righteous who lived and died since the first resurrection, ie in the Millennial era. We know this because of the reference to the book of life. Of course, this could be used strictly to exclude those whose names were *not* written in it. But I think it includes those whose names *are* written in it, because it includes names of both those who were righteous and those who were wicked, and the righteous mortals in the Millennial era had not yet been accounted for. If the wicked are raised up at the end of the Millennium then the righteous have to be raised up as well, you would think?

    So the question is, why are not the righteous who participate in the 2nd resurrection mentioned? I think it is because the fate of the righteous was previously indicated in the first resurrection. Obviously, the righteous mortals in the Millennial era would experience the same as those participating in the first resurrection.

    Anyway, I'm not sure much is made out of the distinction between the two resurrections outside of the book of Revelation. All we know from the other Prophets is that there will be a mortal Kingdom of Christ and that the righteous will all ultimately be made immortal, partaking in a sense in the "tree of life." The fact there are two resurrections separated by a thousand years does not detract from this. The important point is that all the righteous will at some point be made immortal, or inherit eternal life. The length of time for the Messianic Kingdom is only established in the book of Revelation. But the idea was around previous to that, based on the biblical idea that "a day is as a thousand years," and based on the Jewish idea of a Millennial Sabbath Day.

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    We need to reexamine who are the rest of the dead....why?

    The dead in verse 4 ONLY speaks of those beheaded for Christ. Where are the other believers?

    The rest of the dead in this context are the rest of the dead believers who take part in the first resurrection.

    The 144000 are those seen in verse 4. They are martyred and resurrected prior to Christ return.

    The rest of the believers then are resurrected first upon Christs return. Ie the rest of the dead.

    Then the wicked are raised second.

    There is no 1000 years between resurrection. The 1000 years are a metaphor.

    Again focus on the dead in verse 4

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    We need to reexamine who are the rest of the dead....why?

    The dead in verse 4 ONLY speaks of those beheaded for Christ. Where are the other believers?

    The rest of the dead in this context are the rest of the dead believers who take part in the first resurrection.

    The 144000 are those seen in verse 4. They are martyred and resurrected prior to Christ return.

    The rest of the believers then are resurrected first upon Christs return. Ie the rest of the dead.

    Then the wicked are raised second.

    There is no 1000 years between resurrection. The 1000 years are a metaphor.

    Again focus on the dead in verse 4
    Where do you find any mention of the 144k being killed? and the 1k year are a metaphor for what exactly?

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Where do you find any mention of the 144k being killed?
    Are you saying the 144K don't die?

    Anyway we see them with the Lamb Rev 14:1 on Mt Zion BEFORE the second coming. And having already their father's name in their foreheads.

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Well, the proof of who this involves is in the very Scriptures you are citing. The first resurrection excluded the wicked, being about those called to judge the earth and those who had been martyred by the Beast. So obviously the second resurrection had to be an occasion for which the wicked could be raised from the dead. And this is confirmed by the reference to the second death.

    But this 2nd resurrection must also include the righteous who lived and died since the first resurrection, ie in the Millennial era. We know this because of the reference to the book of life. Of course, this could be used strictly to exclude those whose names were *not* written in it. But I think it includes those whose names *are* written in it, because it includes names of both those who were righteous and those who were wicked, and the righteous mortals in the Millennial era had not yet been accounted for. If the wicked are raised up at the end of the Millennium then the righteous have to be raised up as well, you would think?

    So the question is, why are not the righteous who participate in the 2nd resurrection mentioned? I think it is because the fate of the righteous was previously indicated in the first resurrection. Obviously, the righteous mortals in the Millennial era would experience the same as those participating in the first resurrection.

    Anyway, I'm not sure much is made out of the distinction between the two resurrections outside of the book of Revelation. All we know from the other Prophets is that there will be a mortal Kingdom of Christ and that the righteous will all ultimately be made immortal, partaking in a sense in the "tree of life." The fact there are two resurrections separated by a thousand years does not detract from this. The important point is that all the righteous will at some point be made immortal, or inherit eternal life. The length of time for the Messianic Kingdom is only established in the book of Revelation. But the idea was around previous to that, based on the biblical idea that "a day is as a thousand years," and based on the Jewish idea of a Millennial Sabbath Day.
    As to the millennial era, why do all of the mortals necessarily need to die? Did not man in the beginning almost live an entire millennium in some cases? And while in a fallen state on top of that. Why wouldn't it be possible this time around for a surviving mortal to live through an entire millennium altogether?

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    As to the millennial era, why do all of the mortals necessarily need to die? Did not man in the beginning almost live an entire millennium in some cases? And while in a fallen state on top of that. Why wouldn't it be possible this time around for a surviving mortal to live through an entire millennium altogether?
    This is one of those little problems that occurs if one places the 'mill' after the second coming.

    Why?

    Because these have already occurred by the time this post-second coming mill begins....


    These will have already occured after the 2nd Coming....
    Rev 11:15 "Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!""

    I Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom"

    I Cor 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump"



    So how do you fit corruptible, flesh and blood into the post second coming era, which is when Christ's Kingdom is the entire world?

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    No. Those in the first resurrection reign the whole 1000 years. Therefore they are still alive when the 2nd resurrection takes place.

    Rev 20:4 ...And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.



    No.

    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
    It looks like we are in full agreement here then since this is what I tend to conclude as well. Like I already pointed out, what is the logic in someone needing to be resurrected twice? Was Jesus ever resurrected twice? No. Is our resurrection patterned after His or not? Not if we have to be resurrected twice and at different times it wouldn't be.

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    This is one of those little problems that occurs if one places the 'mill' after the second coming.

    Why?

    Because these have already occurred by the time this post-second coming mill begins....


    These will have already occured after the 2nd Coming....
    Rev 11:15 "Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!""

    I Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom"

    I Cor 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump"



    So how do you fit corruptible, flesh and blood into the post second coming era, which is when Christ's Kingdom is the entire world?

    Good question. Getting ready to go somewhere in a bit. When I get back I'll see if I can address this post.

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    Re: The 2nd resurrection. Who all does it involve?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    This is one of those little problems that occurs if one places the 'mill' after the second coming.

    Why?

    Because these have already occurred by the time this post-second coming mill begins....


    These will have already occured after the 2nd Coming....
    Rev 11:15 "Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!""

    I Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom"


    Two points. One, you missed the AND in 1 Tim. "At his appearing AND His kingdom."
    Two, dead doesn't always mean physically dead.
    Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

    I Cor 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump"

    So how do you fit corruptible, flesh and blood into the post second coming era, which is when Christ's Kingdom is the entire world?
    This is an easy one. The Millennium is not the kingdom of God. It is Jesus' kingdom and Jesus is God, so its easy to make the connection. However, the kingdom of God is the point after the Millennium when the kingdom is delivered up to God and God is all in all. 1 Cor 15:24-28. Flesh and blood will not enter that kingdom.

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