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Thread: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

  1. #76
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    Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    I love these threads even though i Feel as if WPM, cared more about defending his position then the actual word. I also felt some of his attacks were unwarranted but overall i must say I support the beginners view. I Also want to say I HIGHLY RESPECT YOUR RESTRAINT and POISE (the beginners just in case that was unclear lol) . You seemed to have come from a more genuine place and I believe that you would have actually conceded some points if a logical and biblically supported argument was put forth (was really hoping WPM would produce some).
    Thanks Jesuslovesus. I appreciate your kind words. I have a great deal of respect for WPM and am challenged often by his opinions. He and I disagree on most things related to eschatology but have much in common outside of this subject. We have both been guilty of unwarrented and personal attacks towards each other. But sometimes "iron sharpening iron" happens through friction and not seeing eye to eye. WPM's presence does help strengthen Premills in that each person is forced to scrutinize thier theology and sharpen their communication and thought processes.

    For the sheer number of verses and scriptures you put forth i applaud you. Especially since you didn't even need to use 1 Corinthians 15 i mean wow amazing i kinda want to see you do it just for kicks. I'm actually asking you to do it here Pleasee i'll read it even if no one else will. Overall even if you feel like you made no dent with WPM, cuz idk how anyone could make one if you couldn't i certainly had no shot! I'm sure everyone who comes along and reads this will be blessed THANKS BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yeah, Id be glad to give some thoughts on 1 Cor 15.

    1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.


    This passage describes resurrections of the dead, “each one in his own order.” The word translated “order” is the Greek word “tagma,” and only appears here in the New Testament. However, it appears 20 times in the Septuagint, always referring to an orderly arrangement of classes of people. It was used eleven times in Numbers (LXX) to refer to the orderly placement of the twelve tribes of Israel in the wilderness according to tribe, and their sequentially moving out in ranks according to tribe when they travelled. Each of the twelve tribes was camped in specific locations around the tabernacle in a set order of divisions.


    Numbers 2:2-3 “Let the children of Israel encamp fronting each other, every man keeping his own rank, according to their standards, according to the houses of their families; the children of Israel shall encamp round about the tabernacle of witness. And they that encamp first toward the east shall be the order of the camp of Juda with their host, and the prince of the sons of Juda, Naasson the son of Aminadab.”7 When the pillar of cloud moved, indicating it was time to take down the encampment and travel, each tribe moved out together in a sequential order established by the Law of Moses. “And they first set in motion the order of the camp of the children of Juda with their host; and over their host was Naasson, son of Aminadab. ... And the order of the camp of Ruben set forward with their host; and over their host was Elisur the son of Sediur. ... And the order of the camp of Ephraim shall set forward with their forces; and over their forces was Elisama the son of Semiud. ... And the order of the camp of the sons of Dan shall set forward the last of all the camps, with their forces: and over their forces was Achiezer the son of Amisadai.”


    Every time this Greek word appears in the Septuagint, it refers to encampments by rank or to ranks of Israelites moving out according to tribe, or to ranks of troops in battle, or to official government ranks of officers. This is the background for this term in Paul’s statement, that all will be raised in ranks – an orderly succession of groups of people of the same class or rank.

    Some might suppose that these successive ranks will all be raised on the same day. But, Paul went on to describe when each rank will be resurrected. He first referred to Christ as the “firstfruits” (or prototype). He then used a term of sequence – “afterward.” The rank or class to be raised “afterward” refers to “those who are Christ’s,” and they will be raised “at His coming.”


    Notice that Paul only placed the resurrection of believers at Christ’s coming. Nowhere in Scripture is the resurrection of non-believers placed at Christ’s second coming.


    Verse 24 begins with the word “then,” which is often misunderstood by amillennialist. In English, “then” could mean either “next” or “at that time.” Amillennialists wrongly suppose that it means “at that time” in this passage. But the Greek word for “at that time” is “tote.” Paul did not use “tote", but ”"eita" which means “after that” or “next in sequence.” Therefore verse 24 indicates another resurrection after the resurrection of those who belong to Christ at His coming.
    THE VERY FACT THAT THE WORD "THEN" MEANS "NEXT IN SEQUENCE" SAFELY REMOVES VERSE 25 REGARDING THE REIGN OF CHRIST FROM ENDING AT THE 2ND COMING. INSTEAD IT DEMANDS THAT THE REIGN IS INITIATED AT THE BEGINNING HIS SECOND "COMING"! This demands that there be a lengthy period of time after Christ 2nd coming but before death is defeated in which Christ rules in the midst of His enemies. This agrees perfectly with Hebrews which states that when Christ ascended, he sat down at the right hand of God, and "from that time is WAITING until til His enemies are made His footstool". Jesus is not currently reigning in the midst of the nations, but is waiting to begin the reign of the Rod of Iron.


    Hebrews 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.


    Paul is quoting Psalms 110 which states that only after the enemies become the footstool, that Christ will then rule in their midst. This demands that the materialization of God's full reign can only happen after the 2nd coming.


    Going back to 1 Cor 15, Paul went on to inform his readers when this third resurrection will take place – at “the end,” after Christ has reigned and put down all enemies, including death. We know from Revelation 20 that “death” is cast into the lake of fire after the millennium, after the saints reign with Christ.


    Rev 20: 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. ...12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


    Thus Paul in 1 Cor 15 has described here three resurrections in orderly sequence:


    1. Christ’s own resurrection (the prototype)
    2. Afterward the resurrection of those who are Christ’s
    3. Afterward a third resurrection at the end of Christ’s reign when “death” is fully
    defeated.


    That a third and final resurrection of the unjust is implied in the verse is demanded by that fact that Paul spoke of an order fo resurrections for "all" men but only spoke of believers being raised at "christ coming". If Paul did not imply that there would be a final resurrection of the wicked after Christ reign and after the 1st resurrection, then he would not have stated that "all" wil be made alive nor would there have been an order of resurrections. That Paul is not including Christ resurrection as a part of the future order because verse 22 uses the future tense to describe the coming order of resurrections of all men stating "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all SHALL BE (Future Tense) made alive". Christ resurrection was a past event from the writing of Paul and was only considered a firstfruit. The term "firstfruits" is a reference to a part of the Passover festival of the Jews. On the Sunday after Passover, all the Jewish males were to appear at the Temple with a "firstfruits" offering. This was a small bundle of wheat gathered from their fields just prior to harvest. It was a token gift representing the larger offering of the harvest to be brought to the Temple seven weeks later on Pentecost. The term "firstfruits" became a Jewish idiom with a meaning similar to our English word "prototype." When a new model car or airplane is introduced, the manufacturer builds ONE only, for the purpose of display, testing, advertisement, etc. It is the prototype of what will follow when that model is put into full production. So it is with "firstfruits." The token sheaf of wheat was taken from the fields before the main harvest arrives. Jesus resurrection was a "prototype" of the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20 in which the dead in Chirst will come back to life to rule and reign with Him.



    "The end" (1 cot 15:24) does not refer to the end of chronological existence or time as some amills say. It simply refers to the end of “all rule, authority, and power” and the time when the “kingdom is given to the Father”. Amills arbitrarily seek to make verse 24 and the word "then" a immediate fulfillment instead of "next in sequence. Consequently they violate the precedent set forth in the passage where Paul is giving large gaps of time between each sequence.

    Please notice the large gaps of time found throughout the passage

    1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

    21 For since by a man came death, (6,000+ year gap) by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
    22 For as in Adam all die, (6,000+ year and ongoing time) so also in Christ all will be made alive.
    23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that (2,000+ year gap) those who are Christ’s at His coming,

    24 Then (1,000 year gasp [Pre Mill] or Immediate Fulfillment [Amill]) comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power

    IMO, the Premillennial follows the previous pattern laid out in 1 Cor 15 better than that of Amill by following the construct of the passage.




    1 Cor 15:50-55



    1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"





    1 Cor 15:50 states the "flesh and blood cannot inheirt the kingdom. Amills use this to disavow the idea of mortal survivors in the next age. However, Premills do not believe mortals inherit the kingdom. The inheritance is biblically connected to an allotment of land for an eternal possession. Mortals in the next age are subjects of the kingdom. There is a massive difference between being a subject of the kingdom and receiving an eternal inheritance as heirs. 1 Cor 15 is solely about the resurrection of believers. This passage has nothing to do with the “resurrection of unbelievers”. It is solely the believer’s experience, whether they are resurrected or raptured that the sting of death is no more and Death is swallowed up.

    Please notice below:

    1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."

    Notice that Paul said "THEN shall come to pass the saying". When is the "THEN" that Paul is referring to? Paul is quoting Isaiah 25 in this passage. There can be little doubt that Paul is saying Isaiah 25 shall be fulfilled when the believers are putting on immortality.

    Isa 25:6 And in this mountain The LORD of hosts will make for all people A feast of choice pieces, A feast of wines on the lees, Of fat things full of marrow, Of well-refined wines on the lees. 7 And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken.

    If you read the whole of Isaiah 25, you will see there is a continuation of time, the physical earth and natural processes after the 2nd coming. This is incompatable with Amillennialism. In fact, the context of Isaiah 25 is cojoined with Isaiah 24-26 in one continuance oracle. In Chapter 24-26, we see premillennialism confirmed in three ways.


    1. We see the binding of Satan and His demons in a prison (IMO, the Millennium). After many days (i.e thousand years, they are then "punished" (Isa 24:21-23). This is in context to the time when Jesus rules from Mount Zion and Jerusalem.

    Isa 24:21 It shall come to pass in that day That the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones, And on the earth the kings of the earth. 22 They will be gathered together, As prisoners are gathered in the pit, And will be shut up in the prison; After many days they will be punished.

    We see the effects of Satan's binding upon the nations in Isaiah 25:7 and its harmony with Rev 20:3. The "veil" of deception will be lifted off the nations.

    Isa 25:7 And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever,

    Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

    2. We see the events of the chapters are transpiring on this present earth. Amillennialist believe God will blow up this earth at the 2nd coming and start a brand new one. Later, we see the marriage supper of the Lamb located “in this mountain” (which, hermeneutically, only refer to Jerusalem in the book of Isaiah). They will eat food, such as meat. Meat requires the death of animals (this is incompatible with Amillenialism). Isaiah 26:1-2 speaks of the restoration of Jerusalem which shows the continuation of known geographical cities after the 2nd coming. Isaiah 26:16 refers to the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant and the full extension of the land inheritance that has never happened before in history.

    Isa 26:15 You have increased the nation, O LORD, You have increased the nation; You are glorified; You have expanded all the borders of the land.

    3. Isaiah confirms the Premillennialial understanding that only the righteous are raised from the dead AT THIS TIME while the wicked remain in the grave. This destroys the amillennialial understanding of a simultaneous resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

    Isa 26:13 O LORD our God, masters besides You Have had dominion over us; But by You only we make mention of Your name. 14 They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish. 15 You have increased the nation, O LORD, You have increased the nation; You are glorified; You have expanded all the borders of the land. 16 LORD, in trouble they have visited You, They poured out a prayer when Your chastening was upon them. 17 As a woman with child Is in pain and cries out in her pangs, When she draws near the time of her delivery, So have we been in Your sight, O LORD. 18 We have been with child, we have been in pain; We have, as it were, brought forth wind; We have not accomplished any deliverance in the earth, Nor have the inhabitants of the world fallen. 19 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead

    The timing of this event is when the Abrahamic land covenant is fulfilled and God increases the nation and "expands the borders of the land". The wicked dead I have highlighted in red and Isaiah specifically says that they will be dead and "will NOT rise". However, 4 verses later, Isaiah exclaims that the righteous (highlighted in blue) will be raised from the dead and sing for joy. This proves that both the righteous and wicked cannot rise at the SAME TIME and it upholds John's revelation that the 1st resurrection of the righteous precedes the general resurrection of the rest of mankind.

  2. #77
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    Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    Thanks Jesuslovesus. I appreciate your kind words. I have a great deal of respect for WPM and am challenged often by his opinions. He and I disagree on most things related to eschatology but have much in common outside of this subject. We have both been guilty of unwarrented and personal attacks towards each other. But sometimes "iron sharpening iron" happens through friction and not seeing eye to eye. WPM's presence does help strengthen Premills in that each person is forced to scrutinize thier theology and sharpen their communication and thought processes.



    Yeah, Id be glad to give some thoughts on 1 Cor 15.

    1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.


    This passage describes resurrections of the dead, “each one in his own order.” The word translated “order” is the Greek word “tagma,” and only appears here in the New Testament. However, it appears 20 times in the Septuagint, always referring to an orderly arrangement of classes of people. It was used eleven times in Numbers (LXX) to refer to the orderly placement of the twelve tribes of Israel in the wilderness according to tribe, and their sequentially moving out in ranks according to tribe when they travelled. Each of the twelve tribes was camped in specific locations around the tabernacle in a set order of divisions.


    Numbers 2:2-3 “Let the children of Israel encamp fronting each other, every man keeping his own rank, according to their standards, according to the houses of their families; the children of Israel shall encamp round about the tabernacle of witness. And they that encamp first toward the east shall be the order of the camp of Juda with their host, and the prince of the sons of Juda, Naasson the son of Aminadab.”7 When the pillar of cloud moved, indicating it was time to take down the encampment and travel, each tribe moved out together in a sequential order established by the Law of Moses. “And they first set in motion the order of the camp of the children of Juda with their host; and over their host was Naasson, son of Aminadab. ... And the order of the camp of Ruben set forward with their host; and over their host was Elisur the son of Sediur. ... And the order of the camp of Ephraim shall set forward with their forces; and over their forces was Elisama the son of Semiud. ... And the order of the camp of the sons of Dan shall set forward the last of all the camps, with their forces: and over their forces was Achiezer the son of Amisadai.”


    Every time this Greek word appears in the Septuagint, it refers to encampments by rank or to ranks of Israelites moving out according to tribe, or to ranks of troops in battle, or to official government ranks of officers. This is the background for this term in Paul’s statement, that all will be raised in ranks – an orderly succession of groups of people of the same class or rank.

    Some might suppose that these successive ranks will all be raised on the same day. But, Paul went on to describe when each rank will be resurrected. He first referred to Christ as the “firstfruits” (or prototype). He then used a term of sequence – “afterward.” The rank or class to be raised “afterward” refers to “those who are Christ’s,” and they will be raised “at His coming.”


    Notice that Paul only placed the resurrection of believers at Christ’s coming. Nowhere in Scripture is the resurrection of non-believers placed at Christ’s second coming.


    Verse 24 begins with the word “then,” which is often misunderstood by amillennialist. In English, “then” could mean either “next” or “at that time.” Amillennialists wrongly suppose that it means “at that time” in this passage. But the Greek word for “at that time” is “tote.” Paul did not use “tote", but ”"eita" which means “after that” or “next in sequence.” Therefore verse 24 indicates another resurrection after the resurrection of those who belong to Christ at His coming.
    THE VERY FACT THAT THE WORD "THEN" MEANS "NEXT IN SEQUENCE" SAFELY REMOVES VERSE 25 REGARDING THE REIGN OF CHRIST FROM ENDING AT THE 2ND COMING. INSTEAD IT DEMANDS THAT THE REIGN IS INITIATED AT THE BEGINNING HIS SECOND "COMING"! This demands that there be a lengthy period of time after Christ 2nd coming but before death is defeated in which Christ rules in the midst of His enemies. This agrees perfectly with Hebrews which states that when Christ ascended, he sat down at the right hand of God, and "from that time is WAITING until til His enemies are made His footstool". Jesus is not currently reigning in the midst of the nations, but is waiting to begin the reign of the Rod of Iron.


    Hebrews 10:12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.


    Paul is quoting Psalms 110 which states that only after the enemies become the footstool, that Christ will then rule in their midst. This demands that the materialization of God's full reign can only happen after the 2nd coming.


    Going back to 1 Cor 15, Paul went on to inform his readers when this third resurrection will take place – at “the end,” after Christ has reigned and put down all enemies, including death. We know from Revelation 20 that “death” is cast into the lake of fire after the millennium, after the saints reign with Christ.


    Rev 20: 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. ...12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


    Thus Paul in 1 Cor 15 has described here three resurrections in orderly sequence:


    1. Christ’s own resurrection (the prototype)
    2. Afterward the resurrection of those who are Christ’s
    3. Afterward a third resurrection at the end of Christ’s reign when “death” is fully
    defeated.


    That a third and final resurrection of the unjust is implied in the verse is demanded by that fact that Paul spoke of an order fo resurrections for "all" men but only spoke of believers being raised at "christ coming". If Paul did not imply that there would be a final resurrection of the wicked after Christ reign and after the 1st resurrection, then he would not have stated that "all" wil be made alive nor would there have been an order of resurrections. That Paul is not including Christ resurrection as a part of the future order because verse 22 uses the future tense to describe the coming order of resurrections of all men stating "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all SHALL BE (Future Tense) made alive". Christ resurrection was a past event from the writing of Paul and was only considered a firstfruit. The term "firstfruits" is a reference to a part of the Passover festival of the Jews. On the Sunday after Passover, all the Jewish males were to appear at the Temple with a "firstfruits" offering. This was a small bundle of wheat gathered from their fields just prior to harvest. It was a token gift representing the larger offering of the harvest to be brought to the Temple seven weeks later on Pentecost. The term "firstfruits" became a Jewish idiom with a meaning similar to our English word "prototype." When a new model car or airplane is introduced, the manufacturer builds ONE only, for the purpose of display, testing, advertisement, etc. It is the prototype of what will follow when that model is put into full production. So it is with "firstfruits." The token sheaf of wheat was taken from the fields before the main harvest arrives. Jesus resurrection was a "prototype" of the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20 in which the dead in Chirst will come back to life to rule and reign with Him.



    "The end" (1 cot 15:24) does not refer to the end of chronological existence or time as some amills say. It simply refers to the end of “all rule, authority, and power” and the time when the “kingdom is given to the Father”. Amills arbitrarily seek to make verse 24 and the word "then" a immediate fulfillment instead of "next in sequence. Consequently they violate the precedent set forth in the passage where Paul is giving large gaps of time between each sequence.

    Please notice the large gaps of time found throughout the passage

    1 Cor 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

    21 For since by a man came death, (6,000+ year gap) by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
    22 For as in Adam all die, (6,000+ year and ongoing time) so also in Christ all will be made alive.
    23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that (2,000+ year gap) those who are Christ’s at His coming,

    24 Then (1,000 year gasp [Pre Mill] or Immediate Fulfillment [Amill]) comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power

    IMO, the Premillennial follows the previous pattern laid out in 1 Cor 15 better than that of Amill by following the construct of the passage.




    1 Cor 15:50-55



    1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"





    1 Cor 15:50 states the "flesh and blood cannot inheirt the kingdom. Amills use this to disavow the idea of mortal survivors in the next age. However, Premills do not believe mortals inherit the kingdom. The inheritance is biblically connected to an allotment of land for an eternal possession. Mortals in the next age are subjects of the kingdom. There is a massive difference between being a subject of the kingdom and receiving an eternal inheritance as heirs. 1 Cor 15 is solely about the resurrection of believers. This passage has nothing to do with the “resurrection of unbelievers”. It is solely the believer’s experience, whether they are resurrected or raptured that the sting of death is no more and Death is swallowed up.

    Please notice below:

    1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."

    Notice that Paul said "THEN shall come to pass the saying". When is the "THEN" that Paul is referring to? Paul is quoting Isaiah 25 in this passage. There can be little doubt that Paul is saying Isaiah 25 shall be fulfilled when the believers are putting on immortality.

    Isa 25:6 And in this mountain The LORD of hosts will make for all people A feast of choice pieces, A feast of wines on the lees, Of fat things full of marrow, Of well-refined wines on the lees. 7 And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken.

    If you read the whole of Isaiah 25, you will see there is a continuation of time, the physical earth and natural processes after the 2nd coming. This is incompatable with Amillennialism. In fact, the context of Isaiah 25 is cojoined with Isaiah 24-26 in one continuance oracle. In Chapter 24-26, we see premillennialism confirmed in three ways.


    1. We see the binding of Satan and His demons in a prison (IMO, the Millennium). After many days (i.e thousand years, they are then "punished" (Isa 24:21-23). This is in context to the time when Jesus rules from Mount Zion and Jerusalem.

    Isa 24:21 It shall come to pass in that day That the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones, And on the earth the kings of the earth. 22 They will be gathered together, As prisoners are gathered in the pit, And will be shut up in the prison; After many days they will be punished.

    We see the effects of Satan's binding upon the nations in Isaiah 25:7 and its harmony with Rev 20:3. The "veil" of deception will be lifted off the nations.

    Isa 25:7 And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever,

    Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

    2. We see the events of the chapters are transpiring on this present earth. Amillennialist believe God will blow up this earth at the 2nd coming and start a brand new one. Later, we see the marriage supper of the Lamb located “in this mountain” (which, hermeneutically, only refer to Jerusalem in the book of Isaiah). They will eat food, such as meat. Meat requires the death of animals (this is incompatible with Amillenialism). Isaiah 26:1-2 speaks of the restoration of Jerusalem which shows the continuation of known geographical cities after the 2nd coming. Isaiah 26:16 refers to the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant and the full extension of the land inheritance that has never happened before in history.

    Isa 26:15 You have increased the nation, O LORD, You have increased the nation; You are glorified; You have expanded all the borders of the land.

    3. Isaiah confirms the Premillennialial understanding that only the righteous are raised from the dead AT THIS TIME while the wicked remain in the grave. This destroys the amillennialial understanding of a simultaneous resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

    Isa 26:13 O LORD our God, masters besides You Have had dominion over us; But by You only we make mention of Your name. 14 They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish. 15 You have increased the nation, O LORD, You have increased the nation; You are glorified; You have expanded all the borders of the land. 16 LORD, in trouble they have visited You, They poured out a prayer when Your chastening was upon them. 17 As a woman with child Is in pain and cries out in her pangs, When she draws near the time of her delivery, So have we been in Your sight, O LORD. 18 We have been with child, we have been in pain; We have, as it were, brought forth wind; We have not accomplished any deliverance in the earth, Nor have the inhabitants of the world fallen. 19 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead

    The timing of this event is when the Abrahamic land covenant is fulfilled and God increases the nation and "expands the borders of the land". The wicked dead I have highlighted in red and Isaiah specifically says that they will be dead and "will NOT rise". However, 4 verses later, Isaiah exclaims that the righteous (highlighted in blue) will be raised from the dead and sing for joy. This proves that both the righteous and wicked cannot rise at the SAME TIME and it upholds John's revelation that the 1st resurrection of the righteous precedes the general resurrection of the rest of mankind.
    I guess i only have one question do you believe Christ is the whole first resurrection of just the first fruit of the group know as those who have fallen asleep
    Thus Paul in 1 Cor 15 has described here three resurrections in orderly sequence:


    1. Christ’s own resurrection (the prototype)
    2. Afterward the resurrection of those who are Christ’s
    3. Afterward a third resurrection at the end of Christ’s reign when “death” is fully
    defeated.

    Do you believe Christians or the church could be included in the first "order"? And that Christ is the the first fruits of the first group but not all of the group.
    1 Corinthians 15 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
    Romans 8:23 - And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
    Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
    23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
    James 1:18 In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.
    Revelations 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    I mean even the second group seems to have first fruits.
    Revelations 14:3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[c] from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

    If this is the case as i suspect then Jesus there are 3 orders as Paul describes.
    1. The resurrection of the dead or (the asleep) with Christ as the First fruit of our order
    2. Afterward the resurrection of those who are Christ’s with the 144,000 as the First fruits of this order
    3. Afterward a third resurrection at the end of Christ’s reign when “death” is fully defeated and all of humanity is Judged from the start of time including pre-flood and the dead during the millennial Kingdom.

    I Also want to say Thank You for doing this Chap for me it was greatly Appreciated. It was a blessing for me and i hope it will be for others. God bless you!!

  3. #78
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    Re: End-Times Debate: "One or Two Resurrections / Judgments?"

    1 Cor 15: 23 does not say that believers will be resurrected at Christ's coming, but rather, it defines those who are "dead in Christ." Paul is saying that those who are in Christ already, (at the time of His coming), will be the first raised when the resurrection occurs. We know that to be 1000 years after He comes to rule. Those who are resurrected prior to the 1000 years are not the dead-in-Christ... They are the tribulation martyrs who refused the mark of the beast and maintained their testimony of Jesus. The dead-in-Christ will be resurrected before those who are alive at the time of the mass resurrection, but not before the millennium. The millennium is for Christ to rule Jerusalem, as was promised to them, and for the martyrs to co-rule with Christ.

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