Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 62

Thread: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Resting in Him
    Posts
    6,304

    "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    James 2:13 ... mercy triumphs over judgment

    The Gospel I understand as mercy ... is that how we usually present it. Or do we focus on judgment? I see God's "heart" focusing on mercy ... not judgment.

    This scripture also ties in for me about this and speaks much to me ...

    2 Corinthians 5:18-19 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,not counting their trespasses against them and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    15,554

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Great post. If you want to know what is inside something, squeeze it and what comes out is what is in it. When Jesus was squeezed on the cross, mercy came out: "Father forgive them..."

    God is mercy. Here's another verse that goes along with your point:

    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

    He desires compassion, not a record keeping of the sacrifices we make. If a son or daughter is drowning in a lake, no parent considers the risk before jumping in to save the child. If a leg is lost in the process, so be it. That is compassion! It doesn't take note of the cost.

    Thanks for posting. What an encouragement!

    Grace and peace,

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,886

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    James 2:13 ... mercy triumphs over judgment

    The Gospel I understand as mercy ... is that how we usually present it. Or do we focus on judgment? I see God's "heart" focusing on mercy ... not judgment.

    This scripture also ties in for me about this and speaks much to me ...

    2 Corinthians 5:18-19 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,not counting their trespasses against them and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    Surely God is a God of GREAT mercy. After the offense He has suffered at the hand of His creature, it is a wonder that that He even thought about mercy. No earthly king would stand such insult and injury and let the perpetrators get away with it. But lest we diminish the work of our Lord Jesus Christ, the truth must be said.

    God's number one attribute is righteousness. He CANNOT administer mercy. It is a travesty of justice! If driving down a school road at 100 m.p.h. drunk, and killing a schoolchild, is to be met with "life without parole", any judge who gives a lesser sentence may be merciful, but he is not just. He had favored the criminal and left the crime only partially retributed. The parents of the child would hate the merciful judge - and justly so. So, for the record, God will not allow any mercy. His Law, given to Moses, requires and eye for an eye, tooth for tooth and life for life. But God IS MERCIFUL... so how can He administer justice AND mercy? The answer is that an innocent volunteer must take the retribution.

    1. Innocent - because any guilty party can only pay for themselves and not another if death is penalty.
    2. Volunteer - because to force any one to take another's punishment is a worse travesty of justice.


    And thus we come to our Lord Jesus - an Innocent Volunteer to take God's rightful and just wrath INSTEAD of other men. Let us attribute mercy to our gracious God, but let us never forget the price that was paid so that mercy could legally be administered.

  4. #4

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    God's number one attribute is righteousness. He CANNOT administer mercy.
    Pertaining to the faith God, one of His main attributes is righteousness. But, pertaining to the grace of God, one of His main attributes is mercy. Grace/glory is greater than faith.

    It is inadequate (carefully choosing that word inadequate) to unilaterally declare "God's number one attribute is righteousness". There is the peace (by the grace) and joy (by the hope) of God far weightier than His righteousness by faith.

    Yes, God CAN and DOES administer mercy to all candidates for salvation by grace and to whomsoever He desires.

    He chooses mercy over judgment because mercy is of His glory/power. His judgment is not as a man judges; His judgment is of His name. His judgment is either the justification or condemnation of mankind based upon the receipt or non-receipt of faith and grace.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Resting in Him
    Posts
    6,304

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    God's number one attribute is righteousness. He CANNOT administer mercy.
    If God's number one attribute is righteousness then I would expect Scripture to read "Judgment triumphs over mercy" ... yet that is not what Scripture says.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Resting in Him
    Posts
    6,304

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Great post. If you want to know what is inside something, squeeze it and what comes out is what is in it. When Jesus was squeezed on the cross, mercy came out: "Father forgive them..."

    God is mercy. Here's another verse that goes along with your point:

    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

    He desires compassion, not a record keeping of the sacrifices we make. If a son or daughter is drowning in a lake, no parent considers the risk before jumping in to save the child. If a leg is lost in the process, so be it. That is compassion! It doesn't take note of the cost.

    Thanks for posting. What an encouragement!

    Grace and peace,

    Mark
    Thanks ... and after I posted I thought about Matthew 9:13 and how I should make sure I post it in this thread ... but you have thankfully taken care of that. God is Great!
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,886

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Pertaining to the faith God, one of His main attributes is righteousness. But, pertaining to the grace of God, one of His main attributes is mercy. Grace/glory is greater than faith.

    It is inadequate (carefully choosing that word inadequate) to unilaterally declare "God's number one attribute is righteousness". There is the peace (by the grace) and joy (by the hope) of God far weightier than His righteousness by faith.

    Yes, God CAN and DOES administer mercy to all candidates for salvation by grace and to whomsoever He desires.

    He chooses mercy over judgment because mercy is of His glory/power. His judgment is not as a man judges; His judgment is of His name. His judgment is either the justification or condemnation of mankind based upon the receipt or non-receipt of faith and grace.
    I address only your last sentence in blue. I vehemently disagree. The judgement fell on Christ in all its fury.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,886

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    If God's number one attribute is righteousness then I would expect Scripture to read "Judgment triumphs over mercy" ... yet that is not what Scripture says.
    It is a common perception among Christians that God needed to be appeased by Christ's death. The death of Christ paid the just deserts for the sins of men. If I willingly enter your house and trash the contents thereof with an axe, I have 4 problems
    1. I must pay for the restoration of your house says the judge
    2. You would angry - and rightfully so (this is outside the realm of the judge)
    3. We would be enemies - and rightfully so (this is outside the realm of the judge)
    4. I would still face a jail sentence (this not a judicial compensation like point 1, but the wages for breaking the Law)

    So when Christ (1) judicially paid for our sins He still had to
    (2) appease God's anger - that is, propitiate
    (3) reconcile us to God - to go from enemy to friend
    (4) go from death (the sentence) to life

    God was not obliged to accept any of the last three. That is, Christ's death could have fulfilled all judicial requirements and we would have been still in a miserable condition. That God's anger is appeased, that we are reconciled to God and that we are given eternal life is GRACE by MERCY over an above what Law demanded. So God's GRACE by MERCY is never in doubt. But first the legal requirements of justice HAD to be settled. And this was settled in a most brutal and all-encompassing way from Gethsemane to Golgotha.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    15,554

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    So God's GRACE by MERCY is never in doubt. But first the legal requirements of justice HAD to be settled. And this was settled in a most brutal and all-encompassing way from Gethsemane to Golgotha.
    And Jesus, who is Mercy, embraced it fully for God and for us. Since the fall of man, God can only meet with man in mercy. The mercy seat is the only place where we can enter into God's presence. For us, mercy triumphs over judgment. Jesus revealed this when he willingly suffered it all for God and for us.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Resting in Him
    Posts
    6,304

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is a common perception among Christians that God needed to be appeased by Christ's death. The death of Christ paid the just deserts for the sins of men. If I willingly enter your house and trash the contents thereof with an axe, I have 4 problems
    1. I must pay for the restoration of your house says the judge
    2. You would angry - and rightfully so (this is outside the realm of the judge)
    3. We would be enemies - and rightfully so (this is outside the realm of the judge)
    4. I would still face a jail sentence (this not a judicial compensation like point 1, but the wages for breaking the Law)

    So when Christ (1) judicially paid for our sins He still had to
    (2) appease God's anger - that is, propitiate
    (3) reconcile us to God - to go from enemy to friend
    (4) go from death (the sentence) to life

    God was not obliged to accept any of the last three. That is, Christ's death could have fulfilled all judicial requirements and we would have been still in a miserable condition. That God's anger is appeased, that we are reconciled to God and that we are given eternal life is GRACE by MERCY over an above what Law demanded. So God's GRACE by MERCY is never in doubt. But first the legal requirements of justice HAD to be settled. And this was settled in a most brutal and all-encompassing way from Gethsemane to Golgotha.
    Not everyone agrees with penal substitution ... that being said ... penal substitution STATES that judgment triumphs over mercy and mercy is ONLY ALLOWED because judgment has been carried out through substitution. Scripture states that mercy triumphs over judgment and not judgment triumphs over mercy.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,886

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    Not everyone agrees with penal substitution ... that being said ... penal substitution STATES that judgment triumphs over mercy and mercy is ONLY ALLOWED because judgment has been carried out through substitution. Scripture states that mercy triumphs over judgment and not judgment triumphs over mercy.
    I have not found such a thought in scripture that penal substitution STATES that judgment triumphs over mercy. God's judgement is fair, equal, in proportion and deserved. Mercy, as I said can only be administered if the righteous requirements of God have been met. But maybe a look at the context of James' statement will help.

    The context of James' statement in Chapter 2:1-12 is once Jews, now believers, according more esteem to certain members of the congregation than others. He writes to Jews in dispersion (1:1). The Jew, impregnated with 1,500 years of Law, would more highly esteem a rich man in their Assembly (most probably a synagogue) because prosperity was a sign that the man was keeping the Law (e.g. Deut.28:1-13). So James goes on to tell them that God has chosen base people to inherit the coming Kingdom and that all stood as sinners before God (v.5; 1st Cor.1:26-29). James goes on to tell these Jews, now converted to Christianity, that they are to stop judging according to the Law of Moses, and from now on judge according to the "Royal Law" which is "love your neighbor as yourself" (v.8). The judgement that the Law of Moses required was "without pity" (Deut.13:6-11, 19:13, 21, 25:12), but now, since all these believing Jews were themselves absolved of their sins, and had received mercy, they could judge according to the Royal Law - that is, they could administer mercy, seeing as the sins against them had been born by Christ already.

    The triumph of mercy over their judgement is as follows; Without Christ's substitution, the Law would have remained, and judgement without pity the norm. This is not wrong or evil. It is righteous and God instituted it. But once Christ removed sin and sins, and His substitution is accepted (by faith), the believer has his sins wiped out. And so too all other believers in the Assembly. Now, an offended believer can require just retribution. It is innate to God's nature. But seeing as both the offender and the offended in the Assembly must not pay the just deserts of their sins, THEY CAN AFFORD TO OVERLOOK THE OFFENSE. Just judgement is good, but a man freed of a great debt can easily afford to be merciful. And within verse 12 is a hidden warning. It says; "You that have had mercy, beware you show mercy, because if you judge without mercy, the judgement wherewith you will be judged at the Bema (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10) will also be without mercy." The end result is that FOR MEN IN ABSOLUTION, mercy is the winner - hands down!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Resting in Him
    Posts
    6,304

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I have not found such a thought in scripture that penal substitution STATES that judgment triumphs over mercy. God's judgement is fair, equal, in proportion and deserved. Mercy, as I said can only be administered if the righteous requirements of God have been met. But maybe a look at the context of James' statement will help.

    The context of James' statement in Chapter 2:1-12 is once Jews, now believers, according more esteem to certain members of the congregation than others. He writes to Jews in dispersion (1:1). The Jew, impregnated with 1,500 years of Law, would more highly esteem a rich man in their Assembly (most probably a synagogue) because prosperity was a sign that the man was keeping the Law (e.g. Deut.28:1-13). So James goes on to tell them that God has chosen base people to inherit the coming Kingdom and that all stood as sinners before God (v.5; 1st Cor.1:26-29). James goes on to tell these Jews, now converted to Christianity, that they are to stop judging according to the Law of Moses, and from now on judge according to the "Royal Law" which is "love your neighbor as yourself" (v.8). The judgement that the Law of Moses required was "without pity" (Deut.13:6-11, 19:13, 21, 25:12), but now, since all these believing Jews were themselves absolved of their sins, and had received mercy, they could judge according to the Royal Law - that is, they could administer mercy, seeing as the sins against them had been born by Christ already.

    The triumph of mercy over their judgement is as follows; Without Christ's substitution, the Law would have remained, and judgement without pity the norm. This is not wrong or evil. It is righteous and God instituted it. But once Christ removed sin and sins, and His substitution is accepted (by faith), the believer has his sins wiped out. And so too all other believers in the Assembly. Now, an offended believer can require just retribution. It is innate to God's nature. But seeing as both the offender and the offended in the Assembly must not pay the just deserts of their sins, THEY CAN AFFORD TO OVERLOOK THE OFFENSE. Just judgement is good, but a man freed of a great debt can easily afford to be merciful. And within verse 12 is a hidden warning. It says; "You that have had mercy, beware you show mercy, because if you judge without mercy, the judgement wherewith you will be judged at the Bema (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10) will also be without mercy." The end result is that FOR MEN IN ABSOLUTION, mercy is the winner - hands down!
    Penal substitution implies that punishment MUST BE GIVEN and that implies that judgment triumphs mercy. And again not everyone agrees with penal substitution. This conversation we are having back and forth started from my comment concerning the following which you wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    God's number one attribute is righteousness. He CANNOT administer mercy.
    Again I don't see in Scripture where righteousness is said to be the number one attribute of God ... and that because of that He cannot administer mercy.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  13. #13

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I address only your last sentence in blue. I vehemently disagree. The judgement fell on Christ in all its fury.
    However was the judgment the last thing to fall upon, the Christ? Who is the Christ? Is it by the Christ, that God has in these last days spoken to us and isn't the Christ, the Son of the God. Heb 1:1,2?

    In verse two the Son is said to be the heir of the God. Does an heir, inherit what one already possess? Yet this Son, died, received our judgment, Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. Where was the Son buried? We are speaking of the sinless, without spot and without blemish Son, Lamb of God. And he is dead in our stead.

    According to his (The God's) mercy he (The God) saved us, through washing of regeneration.

    Who received the mercy of God through which we could be saved? Who after the resurrection said, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth"? Who received the washing of regeneration according to the mercy of The God? 1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, (regenerated?) your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.

    Could our sins have been washed away in his own blood, had he not been the first begotten (regenerated) from the dead?

    Did not the mercy of the God follow judgment?

    Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

  14. #14

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    Penal substitution implies that punishment MUST BE GIVEN and that implies that judgment triumphs mercy. And again not everyone agrees with penal substitution. This conversation we are having back and forth started from my comment concerning the following which you wrote:

    Again I don't see in Scripture where righteousness is said to be the number one attribute of God ... and that because of that He cannot administer mercy.
    If Christ, who knew no sin, indeed died for our sins and was raised from the dead by the Father of him, according to mercy, would that not have manifested, "the righteousness of God"?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Resting in Him
    Posts
    6,304

    Re: "mercy triumphs over judgment"

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    If Christ, who knew no sin, indeed died for our sins and was raised from the dead by the Father of him, according to mercy, would that not have manifested, "the righteousness of God"?
    Yes Christ died for our sins, I agree with this but not in the sense of penal substitution. If Christ died and took the penalty for our sins - death, then why do we still die??? The fact that we still die points to me that penal substitution is not the correct understanding of Christ died for our sins. My understanding is that Christ did not die on the cross to take our punishment so God could forgive us it is that through the cross that God's mercy and forgiveness is revealed to men. Our sin's killed Christ on the cross and Christ defeated evil/sin proven by His resurrection.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 140
    Last Post: May 5th 2018, 07:07 AM
  2. Information Is this passionate or what? "I desire mercy not sacrafice"
    By One Fine Day in forum Recovery: Breaking The Chains
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 7th 2011, 03:12 PM
  3. "Judgment must begin at the house of God"
    By forum lurker in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: Sep 16th 2010, 02:49 PM
  4. Replies: 1166
    Last Post: May 26th 2010, 03:30 PM
  5. God's judgment in the "wheels" of the throne
    By tomwindsor in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Apr 19th 2009, 04:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •