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Thread: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

  1. #196
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    They are abiding by God's law in that way they are wrong. In the sense that humans can create laws and ceremonies they certainly can even if they are not in alignment with what God wants.
    hmmm, humans who say it's man's right to create laws and ceremonies so same sex can get married, are humans who say man can do this, are THEY in alignment with what God wants?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  2. #197
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    okay close enough, there are probably as many definitions of marriage as there are types of marriages.
    Here's something I have been thinking about for a little while. It's worth considering.

    First, words have the power of life and death. They matter. (The concept is throughout scripture.) The most important parable in scripture is the sower and the seed in Mark 4. Jesus said "If you do not understand this parable, how can you understand any of the parables?". It is a key. And the entire parable is about how the word, that should be fruitful, is so important. There are ways the enemy tries to get it out of us. And our responses matter. The very first way, is to block our understanding. The enemy seeks to change key words and their meaning because he knows the impact it will have on society at large.

    Slavery was acceptable to society for a long time because they were considered 3/5s human. They were not fully human. The words mattered. Definitions matter.

    Babies were able to be aborted because they aren't human. THey are fetuses, or tissue, etc. We don't kill a baby. We terminate a pregnancy. Words matter.

    Now, we have changed the very definition of marriage. That opens a pandoras box just as changing what it meant to be human did with abortion and slavery.

    Here's an article about how social norms are changed by government.

    https://www.psychologicalscience.org...l-beliefs.html

    Gay "marriage" was forced upon us by the courts. Even California voted against it but their courts shot it down. Because law is meant to teach, it did teach and what was once considered taboo, is now a social norm. Because the elites pushed it through and changed society.

    Here's another article on the influence government laws have on society at large, specifically concerning gay "marriage".

    https://psmag.com/news/legalizing-ga...r-new-research

    The impact of no fault divorce on society at large (and President Reagan's regret at signing the law in California as governor):

    https://psmag.com/news/legalizing-ga...r-new-research

    Laws matter. Words matter. They impact society and government. Laws that ignore sin may be fine. But government that forces sin upon society by making it a normal thing, is not fine. Changing words and their definitions have dire consequences and lead to death.

    Do you think your supporting the changing of the definition of marriage helps society? Does it hinder their understanding of God and His morality in any way? Do you think Satan cheered when the definition of humans was changed? Do you think he cheers when the definition of marriage changes?

    Mark 4, shows us that the entire war that we have with the enemy is all around the word of God. How He defines words matters a great deal and can lead to life or death. Which definitions of words do you want to support? Those that lead to life? Or those that lead to deception and death?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  3. #198

    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    hmmm, humans who say it's man's right to create laws and ceremonies so same sex can get married, are humans who say man can do this, are THEY in alignment with what God wants?
    Man can do this that is a fact. It is not a right it is free will. Humans do not grant free will to themselves or other humans. God granted humans free will.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  4. #199
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Man can do this that is a fact. It is not a right it is free will. Humans do not grant free will to themselves or other humans. God granted humans free will.
    Yes, free will. Man's ticket to be obedient to God's statutes (be in alignment with God, through His Son by the power of the Holy Spirit) and the ticket gets them into heaven, or man's ticket to be disobedient and the ticket gets them eternal separation from God.

    So, since you responded but didn't answer the question, humans who say it's man's right to create laws and ceremonies so same sex can get married, are humans who say man can do this, are THEY in alignment with what God wants?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  5. #200

    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Yes, free will. Man's ticket to be obedient to God's statutes (be in alignment with God, through His Son by the power of the Holy Spirit) and the ticket gets them into heaven, or man's ticket to be disobedient and the ticket gets them eternal separation from God.

    So, since you responded but didn't answer the question, humans who say it's man's right to create laws and ceremonies so same sex can get married, are humans who say man can do this, are THEY in alignment with what God wants?
    I cannot answer the way you want me to because I disagree with the idea that it is man's right to create laws and ceremony, it is man's free will that allows this and free will was given to man by God. So the question you are asking doesn't even apply to me so I can see no way for you to use my answer other than to intentionally or inadvertently misconstrue my actual position. IOW if whatever point you are leading to requires that I believe that it is man's right to create laws and ceremonies it has already failed to apply.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  6. #201
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I cannot answer the way you want me to because I disagree with the idea that it is man's right to create laws and ceremony, it is man's free will that allows this and free will was given to man by God. So the question you are asking doesn't even apply to me so I can see no way for you to use my answer other than to intentionally or inadvertently misconstrue my actual position. IOW if whatever point you are leading to requires that I believe that it is man's right to create laws and ceremonies it has already failed to apply.
    Then you are severely not reading my posts. The questions are in direct relation to you, based on all your answers.

    So let's approach this one step at a time. Man is given free will by God, God has ALSO informed man WHAT marriage is and WHAT marriage is, is ONLY between a man and a woman.

    Do you agree that God has informed man WHAT marriage is and WHAT marriage is, is ONLY between a man and a woman?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  7. #202
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I cannot answer the way you want me to because I disagree with the idea that it is man's right to create laws and ceremony, it is man's free will that allows this and free will was given to man by God.
    Do you think man is misusing and abusing his free will that was granted to him? If so, do you think God will judge him for that misuse?

    Do you think God supports changing the legal definition of marriage? If not, will He judge those that do support it? If so, will He judge those that do not support it.

    It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God! He will one day judge us all BU. You, me, Slug, everyone! It is not so important that God is on our side. But it is vitally important that we are on His side.

    God bless.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  8. #203

    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Then you are severely not reading my posts. The questions are in direct relation to you, based on all your answers.

    So let's approach this one step at a time. Man is given free will by God, God has ALSO informed man WHAT marriage is and WHAT marriage is, is ONLY between a man and a woman.

    Do you agree that God has informed man WHAT marriage is and WHAT marriage is, is ONLY between a man and a woman?
    I thought we were taking it one step at a time, i've only bothered with this because i thought you were carefully walking me through the premises of an argument. We don't need to start over as i've followed up until now. Does your argument ultimately hinge on me believing that it is man's right to create these laws and ceremonies as opposed to being granted by free will? If so then cede the argument and/or start a new one but at least say that is what you are going to do instead of acting like i've done something wrong when i've taken the time to take this whole walk with you.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  9. #204

    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Slug i get that you are trying to teach me something and change my view, and i'm fine with that but you are going to need to work with me here. like cmon?
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  10. #205

    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Slug to be fully clear i believe that your argument does hinge there, as if these are rights that we grant each other then your entire position makes sense,. You can legislate away rights given by man, but you cannot legislate away free will as it is not in the hands of men to do so.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  11. #206
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Slug to be fully clear i believe that your argument does hinge there, as if these are rights that we grant each other then your entire position makes sense,. You can legislate away rights given by man, but you cannot legislate away free will as it is not in the hands of men to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Slug i get that you are trying to teach me something and change my view, and i'm fine with that but you are going to need to work with me here. like cmon?
    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I thought we were taking it one step at a time, i've only bothered with this because i thought you were carefully walking me through the premises of an argument. We don't need to start over as i've followed up until now. Does your argument ultimately hinge on me believing that it is man's right to create these laws and ceremonies as opposed to being granted by free will? If so then cede the argument and/or start a new one but at least say that is what you are going to do instead of acting like i've done something wrong when i've taken the time to take this whole walk with you.
    Brave, seems the goal posts keep changing and I don't have the other thread to ref how they keep changing.

    Are you a proponent (support) of same-sex marriage?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  12. #207

    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    This in no way is written in support of same sex marriage. It is in support of accepting the will of God. We are placed in a world of sin to overcome that sin, not to fool ourselves into thinking we can eliminate sin. Sin is there and there it will stay.
    Note that whenever Paul condemns homosexuality he often includes other sins-giving them equal status to homosexuality, including greed, lying, anger, gossip. So most of us are probably just as guilty. He never includes his recommendations for action against those sinners, because no action is required.
    Man creates laws because God has installed the authority to them to create laws. We are specifically forbidden to challenge or oppose authority. This stay in this world is temporary and only to test us. By giving authority to those who allow same sex marriage He is testing them, those the law affects, and us in our reaction to it. Can we quietly accept what tests God designed?
    To those who presume to know what God wants us to do, I will add my opinion: I believe He most wants is us to change our own sins, and not to be obsessed with the sins of others. "But you would not have condemned my innocent disciples if you knew the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.'" Matt 12:7

  13. #208
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    This in no way is written in support of same sex marriage. It is in support of accepting the will of God. We are placed in a world of sin to overcome that sin, not to fool ourselves into thinking we can eliminate sin. Sin is there and there it will stay.
    Note that whenever Paul condemns homosexuality he often includes other sins-giving them equal status to homosexuality, including greed, lying, anger, gossip. So most of us are probably just as guilty. He never includes his recommendations for action against those sinners, because no action is required.
    Man creates laws because God has installed the authority to them to create laws. We are specifically forbidden to challenge or oppose authority. This stay in this world is temporary and only to test us. By giving authority to those who allow same sex marriage He is testing them, those the law affects, and us in our reaction to it. Can we quietly accept what tests God designed?
    To those who presume to know what God wants us to do, I will add my opinion: I believe He most wants is us to change our own sins, and not to be obsessed with the sins of others. "But you would not have condemned my innocent disciples if you knew the meaning of this Scripture: 'I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.'" Matt 12:7
    Hooah in that we are not to obsess. We are however commanded to discern error/sin and bring correction... just like Paul does throughout all he's led to write

    Also, James was led to put it quite prolifically about the NEED to correct and the WHY to correct, James 5:19-20.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  14. #209

    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Hooah in that we are not to obsess. We are however commanded to discern error/sin and bring correction... just like Paul does throughout all he's led to write

    Also, James was led to put it quite prolifically about the NEED to correct and the WHY to correct, James 5:19-20.
    100% correct! We will correct those within our church. Outside, not so much.

  15. #210
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    Re: Episcopal Church to allow same-sex marriages

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    100% correct! We will correct those within our church. Outside, not so much.
    Hooah. The problem is when Christians "support" the world's sin(s). Thus the need to point out, STOP being double-minded.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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