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Thread: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Number

  1. #1

    The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Number

    In my search to "calculate" 666, the number of the beast mentioned in the book of Revelation 13:18, I believe I can correctly interpret the meaning of the mysterious creatures that unfold one after the other in the whole of chapter 13 of the book of Revelation.

    The dragon (satan), earlier had been expelled from Heaven. Now in the realm of earth-inhabiting Man, he gives his power and throne of authority to the beast seen rising out of the sea that had seven heads, one of which bore a mortal wound that appeared to have healed. It had 10 horns with a crown adorning each.

    The beast out of the sea, represents the heart of Man - in all its inassailable depths.

    Moreover, this same beast - the heart of Man - was the serpent in the garden of Eden at the fall of Man, I believe.

    At Eden, Eve's heart (the serpent), rationalised over God's direct order and then chose to disobey. Thenceforth, Man lost the priviledge to fellowship with God in Heaven.

    Man, whose heart hitherto was blameless (as depicted by a seven-headed creature), then had a curse placed upon it that prophesied how generational offsprings of Eve would bruise their proverbial heels against its head (deciphered as the one mortally wounded head out of seven the creature owned). It is to be noticed, the attendant drop from the heavenly-correlative figure 7, to the humanly-correlative figure 6, in number of unblemished heads now owned by the creature.
    Last edited by Kofoworola Awojobi; Jul 12th 2015 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Typo editing.

  2. #2

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Then came the beast from the earth, depicted as equal in power and authority in the presence of the beast from the sea. He acts somewhat as the advocate to the earlier creature, going so far as to perform signs and wonders, drawing men closer in awe of the beast - the same men who had earlier worshiped the beast (and like-wise the dragon in whom authority was derived) on account of his war prowess.

    The beast from the earth, in my considered interpretation, is the flesh of Man which is inclusive of his intellect and advances in technology and industry - the "signs and wonders" that supposedly causes mankind to revel (worship) at the thirst for, and depth of its power - including his ability to forge mighty tools of war (nuclear capabilities inclusive) - Revelation 13:4 "...Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

  3. #3
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    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    A student of the Bible has two choices. He/she can insert their own thoughts into God's Word, or they can be diligent to allow scripture to interpret itself. You have chosen the first. But for those who don't trust the fallen and darkened human intellect, there is ample evidence of who the Beast is by studying every mention of him, every mention of the "sea" and every mention of the "earth" where they appear in parabolic language.

  4. #4

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    A student of the Bible has two choices. He/she can insert their own thoughts into God's Word, or they can be diligent to allow scripture to interpret itself. You have chosen the first. But for those who don't trust the fallen and darkened human intellect, there is ample evidence of who the Beast is by studying every mention of him, every mention of the "sea" and every mention of the "earth" where they appear in parabolic language.
    Hello @Walls. Every student study of scripture IS a process that involves inserting one's thoughts into God's Words.

    What would be wrong is altering the written Word unauthoritatively.

    In figuring out scripture, prophesy no less, speculative assertions and correlations are unavoidable, are spoken-out or kept within ones thoughts - and, I really hope you would share the knowledge you have on the subject matter.

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    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoworola Awojobi View Post
    In figuring out scripture, prophesy no less, speculative assertions and correlations are unavoidable, are spoken-out or kept within ones thoughts
    I totally agree that is why I try to be open to seeing alternative ways to look at things ... of course in the end our understanding is what we believe best fits Scripture ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  6. #6

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    "And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast..." - Revelation 13:14.

    I believe the image "to" the beast from the sea (the heart of Man) that is made by earth-dwelling men prompted by the beast from the earth (Man's intellect), is to be interpreted as those works created in the Arts (music, theatre, TV, film) that depict evil, in conflict for the souls of men.

    Story-lines out of the proverbial "play-book" - but not quite so. For they are now to be viewed, as per the interpretation, as real-life spiritual manifestations, granted voices to speak to its audience. These "story-lines" often portraying innocent deaths:

    "... that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed." - Revelation 13: 15.
    Last edited by Kofoworola Awojobi; Jul 12th 2015 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Minor typo editing.

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    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoworola Awojobi View Post
    Hello @Walls. Every student study of scripture IS a process that involves inserting one's thoughts into God's Words.

    What would be wrong is altering the written Word unauthoritatively.

    In figuring out scripture, prophesy no less, speculative assertions and correlations are unavoidable, are spoken-out or kept within ones thoughts - and, I really hope you would share the knowledge you have on the subject matter.
    Thank you for your gracious answer, and I agree with it. We mere humans cannot possess ALL truth and so we have thoughts and ideas that are most probably wrong. Here is my understanding of the Beast.

    Since Genesis 1:26-28 lays down God's plan that man should rule the earth, sea and sky, the final issue will be:- "Which Man?" God raises up Adam to rule but Adam subjugates himself to the previous "Prince of this world" - an angel called Satan. All rule by men from this point onwards is a rule subject to this "Prince". About 2,000 years ago, God, in accordance with His promises, produces from a woman, Mary, a Man Who is designated "heir of all things" (Heb.1:2). This Man opens a road for fallen men to escape (1) the consequences of their fallenness, (2) their subjugation to this angel, Satan, and (3) their loss of inheritance of the earth.

    In both cases we have (1) men who are given the earth by God's decree, and (2) men subject to a heavenly creature. Those in Adam are men subject to, and empowered by, Satan of the heavenly host, and those in Christ are men subject to, and empowered by, Jesus Christ the Man who came from heaven (Jn.6:33). The Gospel, or "Good News" of the Man Jesus is set before men of all nations for 2,000 years. At the end of 2,000 years God will allow AN-other man to be set before the nations. He has power, charisma and seems to be able to solve men's problems. He is set before men for only 7 years, but most of the earth, including Israel, set their hearts on him and give him allegiance. This is the Beast.

    Of this Beast scripture says the following;
    1. He is a "Prince" of the people who destroy Jerusalem. He must be a Roman (Dan.9:26)
    2. He is "he", that is, a man (Rev.13:6, 17:11 etc.)
    3. He "goes into perdition" (Rev.17:8, 11). This is the Lake of Fire, making him either and angel or a man (Matt.25:41)
    4. He is called "son of perdition" (2nd Thess.2:3), but also "that MAN of sin"
    5. He claims to be God (2nd Thess.2:4). Thus, he makes the same claim as Jesus
    6. He is a "king", which makes him (1) an individual, and (2) masculine (Rev.17:10-11)
    7. He is one of eight kings of John's time but had already died (Rev.17:11). "he WAS... ." Thus, he must be a Roman, for Rome ruled at John's time
    8. He is one of the first five kings and will be the eighth (Rev.17:11). Thus, he is a king who died and who is resurrected to rule again. "Eight" is the number of resurrection in scripture. Christ was "raised" on the day After the Sabbath (7 + 1 = 8)
    9. His place of authority is a city with seven hills (mountains). Only one city can claim this - Rome
    10. He receives spiritual power from Satan (Rev.13:2, 4; Eph.6:12)
    11. He receives temporal power from 10 prominent kings (Dan.7:24; Rev.17:12)

  8. #8

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    I totally agree that is why I try to be open to seeing alternative ways to look at things ... of course in the end our understanding is what we believe best fits Scripture ...
    Any thing founded upon the above premise is patently wrong. We are to avoid fables: scriptures (and the apostles) establish doctrines we are not allowed to deviate from.

    Also, there are things of the kingdom and things of godliness building up to heavenly patterns that we are not allowed to deviate from.

    Let us confess, preach, minister and teach according to those heavenly patterns without adding or subtracting a thing from them.

    Scriptures are not given for private interpretations, lest many become tossed to and fro with strange doctrines.

  9. #9

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoworola Awojobi View Post
    The dragon (satan), earlier had been expelled from Heaven. Now in the realm of earth-inhabiting Man, he gives his power and throne of authority to the beast seen rising out of the sea that had seven heads, one of which bore a mortal wound that appeared to have healed. It had 10 horns with a crown adorning each.

    The beast out of the sea, represents the heart of Man - in all its inassailable depths.
    Beasts are powerful seats and overcoming symbols of kingdom authority. Upon beasts do principalities and powers sit.

    In the mystery of the kingdom of God, there can only be four beasts from its beginning to its ending (the first three are directly of the kingdom and the last beast is of knowledge - the body of knowledge and seat of judgement).

    But, that old serpent - the devil or Satan, really has no throne. Deceitfully, he poses as God; he has a seat (not a throne) that is mentioned in Rev. 2:13.

    Satan's seat is on the 'sea' (of people). It is the second and highest seat (a beast) in his kingdom. That is how come there are no third and fourth beasts in Satan's kingdom.

    Satan's seat is preceded by a first seat (a beast) spiritually called the 'synagogue of Satan' on the 'ground (or earth)' amongst nations.

    Satan and his angels (ministering evil spirits), not his two beasts, were driven out of Heaven. Rev. 13 gives us a revelation of the two beasts coming out of the 'sea' and 'ground' after Satan was thrown out of Heaven.

    There is the pattern of the kingdom followed by that of godliness. Pertaining to God, the former is first given/revealed before the later. By these patterns do we count all things unto the fullness of God.

    Specifically, by the pattern of godliness do we count that number of the beast (666) using spiritual wisdom (also powers of the Christ and of the Son that are more acceptable and perfect respectively).

  10. #10

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post

    Of this Beast scripture says the following;
    1. He is a "Prince" of the people who destroy Jerusalem. He must be a Roman (Dan.9:26)
    2. He is "he", that is, a man (Rev.13:6, 17:11 etc.)
    But then, Rev. 13:7 went on to say: "..he made war with the saints...and authority given him over every tribe, tongue and nation." - It therefore seems "the beast" is figuratively collective: "kings","princes" and "he(s)" coming into play at set times. A similar case figuratively, as the "woman" seen riding the beast (Rev. 17): she represents the great city, Babylon.

  11. #11

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post

    Of this Beast scripture says the following;


    3. He*""goes into perdition""*(Rev.17:8, 11). This is the Lake of Fire, making him either and angel or a man (Matt.25:41)

    4. He is called "son of perdition" (2nd Thess.2:3), but also ""that"*MAN of sin"
    But then, this works for my understanding of the beast being "Man", albeit in the collective noun sense of the word.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofoworola Awojobi View Post
    But then, this works for my understanding of the beast being "Man", albeit in the collective noun sense of the word.
    Usually, if scripture uses the singular it means the singular. If you want to make it something else you must show cause for it.

  13. #13

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post

    Of this beast scripture says the following;

    5. He claims to be God (2nd Thess.2:4). Thus, he makes the same claim as Jesus
    Jerusalem today is home to the Jews, backed by a powerful Israeli army with a strong US army as an ally force.

    No designated King chosen from amongst His people that regularly bows at the Altar of God inside His Temple in holy worship. Not so today.

    Rather, it is one political leadership after another, each wielding mightier and mightier war capabities (including nuclear warheads) - now the major deterrent to an unholy enemy attack; not any more "the fear of the Lord of Hosts".

    The law of the Holy city obviously follows the principle of seperation of Temple from State.

    Belies there not a substitution of perceived authority in the eyes of men?

  14. #14

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post

    Of this beast scripture says the following;

    7. He is one of eight kings of John's time but had already died (Rev.17:11).*""he WAS... .""*Thus, he must be a Roman, for Rome ruled at John's time
    8. He is one of the first five kings and will be the eighth (Rev.17:11). Thus, he is a king who died and who is resurrected to rule again. "Eight" is the number of resurrection in scripture. Christ was "raised" on the day*"After"*the Sabbath (7 + 1 = 8)
    Rev. 4:8 declares of the Almighty: "Holy, holy, holy ...Who was and is and is to come." The Almighty WAS at the beginning, IS NOW and would be FOREVER.

    Rev. 17: 8 as if mockingly, discredits the beast of owning such powers, a trick he tries pulling off by using multiple kings: "The beast...WAS, and IS NOT and... (in future will) GO TO PERDITION..."

    This "WAS" and "IS NOT" in that verse, could only have meant that the beast is "one king" and later "another king". And yet still "another king again" - hear the concluding part of the very same verse: "...they see the beast that WAS, and IS NOT and yet IS".

    It becomes even clearer, as we read Rev. 17:10-11: "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come... The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eigth..." - The tail-end mention of an eigth king, is purposed to simply high-light the trend of likely future additions. The verse tellingly ends with the suggestion of their
    indivisibility: the whole of verse 11 at a stretch reads: "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eigth, AND IS OF THE SEVEN, and is going to perdition.

    The clincher, to my mind, was the reading further of same chapter 17, precicely Rev. 17:12-17. I implore all to read it and the multiple personalities of the beast becomes clearly evident. So much so that ten individuals who are to be FUTURE kings, are co-opted to give their FUTURE power and authority, towards the beast's FUTURE use for making war with Christ.
    Last edited by Kofoworola Awojobi; Jul 15th 2015 at 05:05 AM. Reason: Typo editing.

  15. #15

    Re: The Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Earth, its Image, its Mark and its Num

    I highly regard all of your posts. I take the subject matter with the sense of responsibilit it deserve, no doubt. @Glorious, your posts are deep and sweepingly with not to many quoted verses as could have aided my ability to revert, but again I appreciate that you bring your understanding to bear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    I totally agree that is why I try to be open to seeing alternative ways to look at things ... of course in the end our understanding is what we believe best fits Scripture ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Usually, if scripture uses the singular it means the singular. If you want to make it something else you must show cause for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Beasts are powerful seats and overcoming symbols of kingdom authority. Upon beasts do principalities and powers sit.

    In the mystery of the kingdom of God, there can only be four beasts from its beginning to its ending (the first three are directly of the kingdom and the last beast is of knowledge - the body of knowledge and seat of judgement).

    But, that old serpent - the devil or Satan, really has no throne. Deceitfully, he poses as God; he has a seat (not a throne) that is mentioned in Rev. 2:13.

    Satan's seat is on the 'sea' (of people). It is the second and highest seat (a beast) in his kingdom. That is how come there are no third and fourth beasts in Satan's kingdom.

    Satan's seat is preceded by a first seat (a beast) spiritually called the 'synagogue of Satan' on the 'ground (or earth)' amongst nations.

    Satan and his angels (ministering evil spirits), not his two beasts, were driven out of Heaven. Rev. 13 gives us a revelation of the two beasts coming out of the 'sea' and 'ground' after Satan was thrown out of Heaven.

    There is the pattern of the kingdom followed by that of godliness. Pertaining to God, the former is first given/revealed before the later. By these patterns do we count all things unto the fullness of God.

    Specifically, by the pattern of godliness do we count that number of the beast (666) using spiritual wisdom (also powers of the Christ and of the Son that are more acceptable and perfect respectively).
    Last edited by Kofoworola Awojobi; Jul 15th 2015 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Wrong name, changed to correct one.

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