Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 42

Thread: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wherever the Lord places me
    Posts
    42,687

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Willows View Post
    Actually, Christians and non-Christian Jews do not hope for the same thing.
    OK. We don't hope for the same thing. That doesn't preclude friendship, does it?

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Not of this earth
    Posts
    13,893
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Why should it be a stumbling block? Can't we be friends without agreeing on religion?
    Yes. However this is Bible Chat. As you know this is a Protestant Christian board and what my brother has expressed is how we interpret and believe the scriptures lay it out.
    I love you as my friend. With that said:

    Please don't attempt to persuade people things should be otherwise than I described above in Bible Chat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    The topic is about Jews and Christians getting along, not heaven.
    That is the central issue that lies between Christians and Jews so of course it is part of this conversation. Personally, I don't see Christians and Jews as people that should just "get along" I see us as part of the same family. We both worship the SAME GOD however our Jewish brothers have rejected the New Covenant and Jesus Christ.

    The situation today is no different to me than God making those He lead out of captivity wander for 40 years until He finally took them to the promised land. They, the Jews, are wandering and will continue to do so until they are grafted back in.

    But they are still Jews and loved just as much as we love the Jews we read about in the Old testament. The biggest hero's and influences in my life are the Jews of great faith scripture tells us about along with the Apostles and early leaders of the church.

    I can't understand for a second how a Christian should or would feel any animosity towards Jews and shun them. How is this possible? I don't know. That part I don't and will never get.

    Well, I could go on but I'd rather read what others have to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I too think that Christians and Jews should be natural allies. We both want the same thing: The world unified under God's rule.
    This we should all be able to agree with.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wherever the Lord places me
    Posts
    42,687

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Yes. However this is Bible Chat. As you know this is a Protestant Christian board and what my brother has expressed is how we interpret and believe the scriptures lay it out.
    I love you as my friend. With that said:

    Please don't attempt to persuade people things should be otherwise than I described above in Bible Chat.
    I'm confused. Where have I tried to influence anyone's beliefs? The original poster made some unusual comments, but I'm not getting involved in that. It's an internal Christian matter for you to take up. Is that who this is directed at?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Blue Ridge Mountains
    Posts
    1,471

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    OK. We don't hope for the same thing. That doesn't preclude friendship, does it?
    Of course not, for there is no more "battle" between Christians and Jews than there is between Christians and any other non-Christians.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Not of this earth
    Posts
    13,893
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I'm confused. Where have I tried to influence anyone's beliefs? The original poster made some unusual comments, but I'm not getting involved in that. It's an internal Christian matter for you to take up. Is that who this is directed at?
    Think of it as me jumping the gun in a "just in case" situation. No disrespect or offense is intended but if you feel any I will understand why. I can't help it though, the mod hat is heavy sometimes.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wherever the Lord places me
    Posts
    42,687

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Think of it as me jumping the gun in a "just in case" situation.
    Just in case...what? C'mon, you know me better than that.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    4,340
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    I don't feel that a battle is going on, however I do feel that a revelation will occur that will bring us together completely, I watch closely the affairs of Israel, they proclaim that Meshach is coming JUST as we do, their eyes will be open and they will see as we do, that it is HIS 2nd return and not his first.

    Some Jews who have become Christians refer to themselves as "completed Jews." In fact, the Old Testament is filled with hope, and the fulfillment of this hope is wonderfully described in the New Testament. Text after text relates how Jesus Christ fulfills all that the prophets foretold.


    We all owe a tremendous debt to the Jews. We have inherited so much from them, and from them came God's own Son, the Messiah. Faith in Him, his death, resurrection and ascension, is the key to peace of heart now and hope for the future.
    It takes love to embrace those ones who are weak, and strength to endure the weakness, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Posts
    158

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    I have read all your posts. Great discussion btw! I apologize I will not respond to all replies individually. However I will at least elaborate on my original post made earlier. I absolutely adore the entire New Testament including all of Paul's teachings. Also I seem to relate to Peter the most as I sort of went through what he went through. Or at least I feel I did by seeking fellowship with God the Father. The scripture that hit me the most was:

    Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:
    for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the
    iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and
    fourth generation of them that hate me;
    [Exodus 20:5]

    I interpreted His "Jealousy" as God sort of admitting His Great Love for us in a very human but discreat way.

    Also the more I feared Him, the closer I drew to Him. I realized Fear and Faith are connected. We need faith to fellowship with God, but He needs our FEAR as a guarantee that we are in fact paying attention. And the more I FEARED God I began to realize His tremendous love and the scriptures just started to make sense. I realize Jesus is the only way in and that They are of the same Spirit along with Moses. Perhaps I am in fact fellowshipping with Jesus and this is the way Jesus is choosing to fellowiship with me. What I fear is the day Jesus "Presents" me to His Father in Heaven and I realize that this will be awkward... Obviously, whenever I meet new people who do not know about Jesus and the Bible and need help and seek God I always point them to Jesus and preach them the Gospel. Jesus saved me, I cried out to Jesus and He came and it was an amazing experience I will never forget. The "image" I have when I "see" God The Father and talk to Him, He is in the clouds in Heaven and He teaches me about my life and deep deep things. I feel separated I guess because of the different "tone" or "thunder" in His voice all throught the OT. Whearas Jesus came to earth very humble and wise and He had pity for the blind and the poor and healed them.

    I do fear that many people who claim to be Christians, the ones who do not seek fellowship with the Lord (like the lukewarm churches, and the those who don't read the Bible), are going to fall for the antichrist. In those times we will need to stand up and do our part even more than we do now.

    Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom;
    give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
    [1:11] To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices
    unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of
    rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood
    of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. [1:12] When ye
    come to appear before me, who hath required this at your
    hand, to tread my courts? [1:13] Bring no more vain
    oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new
    moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot
    away with; [it is] iniquity, even the solemn meeting. [1:14]
    Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth:
    they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them.]
    [1:15] And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide
    mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I
    will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
    [Isaiah 1:10-15]

    Fear the Lord!

    The entire book of Daniel was amazing. Nebuchadnezzar was a lot like me...

    Also book of Job was terrific: "Putting God on Trial" which I did... And lost! But gained so much in learning. God ALWAYS wins!

    I also adore Israel! And now whenever I see hatred towards non-believing Jews I tell them to stop hating and show them Jesus through the Gospel.

    These things I have spoken unto you,
    that in me ye might have peace.
    In the world ye shall have tribulation:
    but be of good cheer;
    I have overcome the world.
    [John 16:33]
    --
    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,
    I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,
    but shall have the light of life.
    [John 8:12]


    כל הידע שלי וההבנה שלי (כולל למיטב ידיעתי של עברית) טירוף בעיני ה '; אבל בחסד ורחמים שלו, דרך אמונה בנו ישוע המשיח אדוננו המושיע שלי, פונה אליו, אני מקווה שהוא ינחה אותי למקום שאני שייכת לעולם אלוהים.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Not of this earth
    Posts
    13,893
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Just in case...what? C'mon, you know me better than that.

    You know what? I reread the thread and reconsidered and you're right. I apologize my friend. Forgive me?
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Posts
    158

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I guess you think Christians should be fighting Jews?
    Not at all we owe them so much. The real Jews know who their God is and have known Him for over 5000 years and they are under a different covenant. Their land is promised to them. They know who Jesus is (Yeshua ) and will not be surprised when He comes back. and they are on the same side as us I suppose. I guess I equate Those who Practice Judaism (who reject Christ) to the "Christians" who do not read the Bible and attend "lukewarm" churches only every Christmas. They are the ones who I am afraid are in the worst danger... We need to pray for them and give them the Gospel. My parents fall in this category... and I pray for them. Also I pray for others who call themselves Jews who do not practice, neither have read any scripture and yet still believe to be "protected" by the blood. How can they know their God if they do not fellowship with Him?
    --
    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,
    I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,
    but shall have the light of life.
    [John 8:12]


    כל הידע שלי וההבנה שלי (כולל למיטב ידיעתי של עברית) טירוף בעיני ה '; אבל בחסד ורחמים שלו, דרך אמונה בנו ישוע המשיח אדוננו המושיע שלי, פונה אליו, אני מקווה שהוא ינחה אותי למקום שאני שייכת לעולם אלוהים.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wherever the Lord places me
    Posts
    42,687

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    You know what? I reread the thread and reconsidered and you're right. I apologize my friend. Forgive me?
    Of course.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,837
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by wendy-p-marshall View Post
    Good day,

    I am troubled lately by many sermons and articles I read about Jews that "killed Jesus" and other articles about Christians "saving" Jews and other similar subjects. I have come to many realisations, the first being that the Jewish people have had a long relationship with their God (God the Father) for over 5000 years. The second realisation is that the Pharisees and Saducees, High Priests etc.. Seem to resemble very much the ancient pagens and closely resemble the Priesthood of the Catholic Church more than any of the Jews in those days. Also Jesus was a Jew! And Jesus never claimed to be the Christ in Matthew... It seems like certain early Christians stole their religion in a certain sense and added chapters to the Bible to start a new religion. The book of Matthew is certainly geared towards the Jews yet seems of much higher quality than the other Gospels for some reason. Jesus clearly stated that His mission was to gather the lost sheep of Isreal. Marks' Gospel seems to be written with Matthews' side-by-side. Not that I believe Jesus made a mistake or anything of choosing Mark as a disciple. Jesus did give different instructions to different disciples. I have bad feeling when the antichrist comes, Christianity will fall, and I mean fall hard. I am very confused, as I Love Jesus with all my heart, yet I have seeked also fellowship with God the Father. I started reading the OT and I really enjoy it. He has showed me great revelations and taught me things about myself. I'm afraid of having denied Jesus. I believe the Jews are going to take back what's theirs eventually. I seem to get so much out of the OT and the book of Matthew. But converting to Judaism would be hypocrytical. I love you Jesus and I will know who you are when you come back!

    Any thoughts?
    I have a number of thoughts on this issue but will refrain from sharing many of them. Without the proper context, and without making sure that the definitions I might use for certain words are understood, it would be better for me to not say much at this time. I do, however, want to say two things. First, I agree with Fenris, we should be natural allies. Christianity, for good or bad, began as a Judaic sect and in the end, serves the same God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Because of its relation to one another, Jews and Christians are obvious targets by groups like ISIS and others who serve another god but who single out ONLY these two groups... Christians and Jews. That should be cause to perhaps seek ways to live and perhaps function in mutual respect and understanding.... allowing God to correct whichever of us is wrong. In the end, in many ways... that will be both of us anyway!

    Second, I believe that God has provided for Himself two witnesses in the form of Judaism and Christianity. Neither is perfect, both need to be redeemed, but both also testify of the same God and the same coming Kingdom but from separate and often conflicting positions. Meaning, we haven't always gotten along, in fact, we often have stood opposed to one another, and yet we make the same testimony. As such, we are perfect witnesses because we make the same testimony of the same God and coming Kingdom without collusion. One group has testified of God through the Law, and the other, while not lawless, has testified through grace. Like the Parable of the Prodigal Son where the son left on the farm and the wayward son who came back from the nations shared a picture of the Father from two different perspectives..... Judaism and Christianity has likewise given testimony from different perspectives. Ultimately, ALL of God's people will come together as one House, one Body... and when these two bookends (grace and law) come together.... the picture will be more complete.

    Just my two cents.

    Many blessings.
    Ken

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Posts
    158

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Since this is Bible Chat. Here is some scripture to help those seek a bit deeper: With Fear!

    So that we may teach those who are not as tuned in to God and help those on the last days.

    I have seen the visions revealed to me too and know that God has a plan for all this. I guess I don't know I can even still be called a Christian. The Church I attend is Roman Catholic and the mass is "lukewarm" I guess. The Priest is a really nice man and knows his scripture. But when the Pope puts his hammer down, my preist is under his authority. I don't consider myself a Catholic but he knows me and lets me attend. End times and revelation are never preached.

    The Spirit of the Fear of the Lord is what gives birth to the spirit of Knowledge:
    The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
    [Proverbs 1:7]

    Knowledge then brings you into Might, which is inner strength:
    A man of knowledge, increaseth strength.
    [Proverbs 24:5]

    Job too, a man described as the greatest of all men of the East, was acknowledged by Satan as
    possessing one outstanding quality: the fear of the Lord.
    Doth Job fear God for nought?
    [Job 1:9]

    Joseph, a man discreet and wise, who through his wisdom, saved Egypt in the time of famine, said concerning himself:
    For I fear God.
    [Genesis 42:18]

    In Isaiah [11:2], we observe that the root of this latter rain is the
    Fear of the Lord. It is at the bottom rung of the ladder and just as every ladder is climbed from the bottom,
    you climb into the fullness of the Seven Spirits from the spirit of the fear of the Lord.

    And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of Wisdom and Understanding, the Spirit of
    Counsel and Might, the Spirit of Knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
    [Isaiah 11:2]

    From Might you graduate to Counsel:

    ... My strength is made perfect in weakness ...
    I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
    [1 Corinthians 12:9, 1]

    From counsel to understanding, then to wisdom which culminates in the manifestation of power.
    The Spirit of the Fear of the Lord is what Apostle Paul refers to as the Spirit of Holiness.
    And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
    [Romans 1:4]

    Jesus knew no sin, no wonder He knew no defeat. He was in touch with heaven. As He walked in purity the Father
    always responded to Him. In fact Jesus was dedicated to doing the things that pleased God. Not just
    preaching those things, but actually doing them!

    And He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
    [John 8:29]

    God‘s eyes are purer than to behold evil. He is angry at the wicked everyday (Psalm 7:11). How could
    Jesus walk together with God if He was sinful? God is the thrice Holy God, so for Jesus to walk with Him,
    He too had to maintain a Holy life. That‘s why Jesus said,
    I do always the things that please Him.
    When Jesus carried the sins of the world, the Father forsook Him. How much more when you carry your
    own sins. But when holiness is in place the Father becomes proud of His Son and declares:
    This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased.
    [Matthew 3:17]

    If God is holy, you can‘t walk with Him except you are holy.
    Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? Or who shall stand in his holy place?
    He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity nor sworn deceitfully.
    [Psalm 24:3,4]

    When you walk with God, you have a guarantee of automatic exploits. His presence commands exploits
    — the sea gives way to him and Jordan is driven back for Him; the mountains skip like rams before Him
    (Psalm 114). But sin repels God‘s presence. So, when sin disappears, God‘s presence is made manifest
    and exploits are inevitable.

    The barrier between man and the flow of the spirit of the fear of the Lord is sin. Until the sin barrier is
    broken down, man‘s separation from God remains. When you become free from sin, you become a friend
    of God and you have access to all things that the Father has shown Jesus. When this happens, Friends,
    you begin to operate at the level Jesus was operating in, you begin to do the type of exploits Jesus did
    here, and even greater.

    Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
    Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you
    friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
    [John 15:14,15]

    Become a friend of God. Leave sin alone, despise and humiliate it. Tell yourself "I am now the friend of Jesus."
    Malachi, a prophet of restoration, told the people,
    Look, Israel, you don't have to suffer the way you're suffering. This is the Word of the Lord: the fear of God
    is no longer in your hearts, that's why your offerings are polluted in the sight of the Lord. That's why those
    who are outside the Church look better than you!

    And God said,
    I will send you a messenger of the covenant who will purify you as silver and purge you as gold; then your
    offerings will be acceptable unto God.
    [Malachi 3:1-5, paraphrased]

    What is the effect of this?
    And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts
    [Malachi 3:12]
    --
    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,
    I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,
    but shall have the light of life.
    [John 8:12]


    כל הידע שלי וההבנה שלי (כולל למיטב ידיעתי של עברית) טירוף בעיני ה '; אבל בחסד ורחמים שלו, דרך אמונה בנו ישוע המשיח אדוננו המושיע שלי, פונה אליו, אני מקווה שהוא ינחה אותי למקום שאני שייכת לעולם אלוהים.

  14. #29

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by wendy-p-marshall View Post
    Not at all we owe them so much. The real Jews know who their God is and have known Him for over 5000 years and they are under a different covenant. Their land is promised to them. They know who Jesus is (Yeshua ) and will not be surprised when He comes back. and they are on the same side as us I suppose. I guess I equate Those who Practice Judaism (who reject Christ) to the "Christians" who do not read the Bible and attend "lukewarm" churches only every Christmas. They are the ones who I am afraid are in the worst danger... We need to pray for them and give them the Gospel. My parents fall in this category... and I pray for them. Also I pray for others who call themselves Jews who do not practice, neither have read any scripture and yet still believe to be "protected" by the blood. How can they know their God if they do not fellowship with Him?
    What about the countless Jews that are dying outside of Christ for 2,000 years? Do you not care about them? If you do you will tell them the truth: there is no salvation outside of Christ and the new birth.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec
    Posts
    158

    Re: Christians vs. Jews - The battle that should not exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    A great topic to be sure. Welcome to Bible Forums.

    Could you elaborate how it is that the Jews can have a relationship with the Father, yet not with the Son, when Jesus said he is the only way to the Father? I will boil it down: Can they then know Jesus 'somehow', without fully realizing that he is the way to the Father?


    How do you contrast the ancient Pharisees, and High Priests with the religious jews of today? The same? Different?


    I don't understand, do you mean that the Jews will follow the antichrist, and that CHristians will do likewise? Or that the Jews will reject the antichrist, and the Christians will accept him? What do you mean here?


    My thoughts here are that the antichrist is a great deception, and the man of sin is not a dude/person. Jesus is returning, and many will think he's the antichrist, actually.
    Depends, not all Jews went "apostate" and followed Judaism. Most did. Some stayed true but had to flee. Some saw and believed on Jesus.

    Honestly: Common similarities I see are: Secrecy, Lots of Rules, Authority, Hierarchy, Rituals, Chanting, etc...

    Great question!
    No that 'lukewarm' Christians who do not know and seek Christ will follow antichrist, FOLLOWING the "Jews already rejecting Christ" rejection of antichrist.

    I think the real Christ comes after. But this will cause much chaos because 'lukewarm' Christians' and "Jews already rejecting Christ" combined far out-number REAL believers of Real Christ.
    Just a thought...
    --
    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,
    I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,
    but shall have the light of life.
    [John 8:12]


    כל הידע שלי וההבנה שלי (כולל למיטב ידיעתי של עברית) טירוף בעיני ה '; אבל בחסד ורחמים שלו, דרך אמונה בנו ישוע המשיח אדוננו המושיע שלי, פונה אליו, אני מקווה שהוא ינחה אותי למקום שאני שייכת לעולם אלוהים.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The main difference to me between OT Jews and NT Christians
    By TransformedSon in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Nov 12th 2011, 09:31 PM
  2. Replies: 162
    Last Post: Oct 28th 2011, 10:51 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •