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Thread: What brings the Messiah?

  1. #1
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    What brings the Messiah?

    Curious to see what people's opinions are on this. In Judaism it's repentance, obviously, as outlined first in Deuteronomy 30. Ezekiel alone outlines a different scenario, where the Jews don't repent but God ushers in the messianic era anyway, For the sake of His name.

    What do people here think?
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Curious to see what people's opinions are on this. In Judaism it's repentance, obviously, as outlined first in Deuteronomy 30. Ezekiel alone outlines a different scenario, where the Jews don't repent but God ushers in the messianic era anyway, For the sake of His name.

    What do people here think?
    The Messiah came during the Roman empire of the first century, and will come again at the end of time to judge the world, depending on nothing more than all the elect having come in.

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willows View Post
    The Messiah came during the Roman empire of the first century, and will come again at the end of time to judge the world, depending on nothing more than all the elect having come in.
    Can you explain? What does that mean, " all the elect having come in."?
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Can you explain? What does that mean, " all the elect having come in."?
    All those whom God ordained to believe (Ac 13:48) will have come to faith so that none will be lost (condemned) at the judgment.

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willows View Post
    All those whom God ordained to believe (Ac 13:48) will have come to faith so that none will be lost (condemned) at the judgment.
    Ah. OK, so this is something that God does, though, and not humans. Am I right? In other words, this is a sign that the Messiah will be coming but not it's cause.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Willows
    All those whom God ordained to believe (Ac 13:48) will have come to faith so that none will be lost (condemned) at the judgment.
    Ah. OK, so this is something that God does, though, and not humans. Am I right? In other words,
    this is a sign that the Messiah will be coming but not it's cause.
    It's not a sign, for it is not something we can see.
    It is a condition which must be met before he will come again.

    The NT indicates the cause of Christ's second coming will be to rescue the church from his enemies (2Th 2:1-12) who have their foot on her neck and are about to destroy her, trying to kick her out of the world (Rev 12-13).

    He will destroy them at his second coming to judge the world at the end of time.

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willows View Post
    It's not a sign, for it is not something we can see.
    It is a condition which must be met before he will come again.

    The NT seems to indicate the cause of his second coming will be to rescue the church from his enemies who have their foot on her neck and are about to destroy her, trying to kick her out of the world.
    OK, gotya. Thanks for the information.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  8. #8

    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:4-6 KJV

    In the fulness of time the Messiah came to do what was necessary for man to be adopted as sons of God. And from then til now the Spirit of adoption is being given.

    Through that Spirit of adoption the Messiah will come again and those with the Spirit of adoption will receive the adoption, the redemption of the body. Currently those who have been given the Spirit of adoption, the firstfruit of the Spirit, groan in birth pangs awaiting, the adoption. Kind of makes me wonder about being, born again.

    And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:23 KJV

    See verse 22 for understanding of the underlined.

    For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Verse 22 KJV

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:4-6 KJV

    In the fulness of time the Messiah came to do what was necessary for man to be adopted as sons of God. And from then til now the Spirit of adoption is being given.

    Through that Spirit of adoption the Messiah will come again and those with the Spirit of adoption will receive the adoption, the redemption of the body. Currently those who have been given the Spirit of adoption, the firstfruit of the Spirit, groan in birth pangs awaiting, the adoption. Kind of makes me wonder about being, born again.

    And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:23 KJV

    See verse 22 for understanding of the underlined.

    For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Verse 22 KJV
    Maybe it's because I am not Christian, but I am not understanding this.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:4-6 KJV

    In the fulness of time the Messiah came to do what was necessary for man to be adopted as sons of God. And from then til now the Spirit of adoption is being given.

    Through that Spirit of adoption the Messiah will come again and those with the Spirit of adoption will receive the adoption, the redemption of the body. Currently those who have been given the Spirit of adoption, the firstfruit of the Spirit, groan in birth pangs awaiting, the adoption.
    Kind of makes me wonder about being, born again.
    What denominational doctrine is this?

    The born again's possession of the Holy Spirit is not only evidence of his present salvation (Ro 8:14, 16), but is also a pledge of his future inheritance--and not only a pledge but also the down payment on that inheritance (2Co 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:14).

    And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:23 KJV
    The born again are already God's children, but inwardly long for the full realization of their inheritance in Christ and the final stage of their adoption in glorified bodies at the resurrection, the first stage being God's predestination of it (Eph 1:5) and the second stage being our present status as children of God (Ro 8:14; Gal 3:26).

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    What brings the Messiah?
    God does.

    Quite simply, though we are told to look for signs and are even given examples of what those signs can be no man knows the day He will return or is given any certain, concrete unmistakable pattern or series of events to accurately predict the day.

    There is nothing we mere mortals can or must do or tasks to complete in order to precipitate His second coming.

    What do we do? We watch and make ourselves prepared and spread the seeds of the gospel. We love Him even more than we love ourselves and we love each other. That's it.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    God does.
    ...
    There is nothing we mere mortals can or must do or tasks to complete in order to precipitate His second coming.
    Simple and to the point. Fair enough.
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

  13. #13

    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    My opinion is a combination of factors, something like "all of the above" as in repentance and something God does type event. I've always looked at the time of Jacobs trouble as the last dealings with the Jews for the purpose that they will repent. So that means I look at the rebirth of the Nation of Israel as a sign we are approaching His coming but what first comes is the time of Jacobs trouble, judgement. I've heard it preached that the future history of the Jews is "somehow" rapped up with the future history of the church. Not that we can "fully" understand it, but I do believe all the elements are there and somehow pressed together.

    That's why the admonition to watch and be ready the day of the Lord is at hand is a biblical theme.
    And why some churches get so involved with the nation of Israel believing they are heading into judgement, so they try as they may to evangelize, while other churches believe they are heading for blessing, so they get involved getting more Jews to the land and sign papers not to evangelize, which they are heading for blessing but first, a time that has never been and never will be again.

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by carboy View Post
    My opinion is a combination of factors, something like "all of the above" as in repentance and something God does type event.
    Aha. Interesting. Thank you for your thoughts
    "For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

    Isaiah 54

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    Re: What brings the Messiah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Curious to see what people's opinions are on this. In Judaism it's repentance, obviously, as outlined first in Deuteronomy 30. Ezekiel alone outlines a different scenario, where the Jews don't repent but God ushers in the messianic era anyway, For the sake of His name.

    What do people here think?
    It almost seems like a contradiction then, if in regards to the Messiah coming, that is has to do with repentance in Deuteronomy 30, while in Ezekiel it has to do with the Jews don't repent but God ushers in the messianic era anyway, For the sake of His name. Maybe then...two comings explains it?

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