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Thread: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

  1. #61

    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I think what divaD is arguing for, and I find I agree with him, is that the war when Jesus returns and defeats the Beast and the Beast's armies leaves dead bodies around. That is the final battle (except for Satan's last attempt after being released from the pit.) It is a fair conclusion that the world is not literally set on fire, and so all these dead bodies are burned up, but rather that this large army of those who took the Mark of the Beast will take a long time to clear up, along with weapons and other accoutrements of war.
    So rather than being well before the MK starts, it is the smash of the Rock pulverising the Toe Kingdom and bringing the whole edifice down. This means it ushers in the MK, with triumph over this world's powers (as the powers in heaven were already triumphed over at the 7th trumpet).
    I'm not equating the Ezekiel 38-39 "war" with "Armageddon" though... I think the ones who have the "hook in the jaw" and will "come against the land of Israel" do this before the mark is implemented (and before Israel "flees" to the mountains mid-trib... because they come against them "when they are living peaceably" [not a direct quote]... not when they have scrammed!), and is not necessarily identified as "the toe kingdom" (smashed at His Second Coming).

    Please correct me where my view cannot possibly be correct. I'd appreciate it.

  2. #62
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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I'm not equating the Ezekiel 38-39 "war" with "Armageddon" though... I think the ones who have the "hook in the jaw" and will "come against the land of Israel" do this before the mark is implemented (and before Israel "flees" to the mountains mid-trib... because they come against them "when they are living peaceably" [not a direct quote]... not when they have scrammed!), and is not necessarily identified as "the toe kingdom" (smashed at His Second Coming).

    Please correct me where my view cannot possibly be correct. I'd appreciate it.
    Is Eze 38 & 39 the same war?
    Is one of them this:
    Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
    Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
    Rev 20:9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

    Eze 38:6 Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes—many peoples are with you.
    Eze 38:7 "Be ready and keep ready, you and all your hosts that are assembled about you, and be a guard for them.
    Eze 38:8 After many days you will be mustered. In the latter years you will go against the land that is restored from war, the land whose people were gathered from many peoples upon the mountains of Israel, which had been a continual waste. Its people were brought out from the peoples and now dwell securely, all of them.

    This speaks of an event AFTER Eze 39:26 which therefore speaks of Satan's release.

    Eze 38:22 With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with him, and I will rain upon him and his hordes and the many peoples who are with him torrential rains and hailstones, fire and sulfur.

    note how this matches Rev 20:9.

    Whereas this:
    Eze 39:2 And I will turn you about and drive you forward, and bring you up from the uttermost parts of the north, and lead you against the mountains of Israel.
    Eze 39:3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand, and will make your arrows drop out of your right hand.
    Eze 39:4 You shall fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your hordes and the peoples who are with you. I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
    Eze 39:5 You shall fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Lord GOD.
    Seems to speak of Armageddon.

    And this:
    Eze 39:22 The house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God, from that day forward.
    Eze 39:23 And the nations shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity, because they dealt so treacherously with me that I hid my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they all fell by the sword.
    Eze 39:24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their transgressions, and hid my face from them.
    Eze 39:25 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for my holy name.
    Eze 39:26 They shall forget their shame and all the treachery they have practiced against me, when they dwell securely in their land with none to make them afraid,
    Eze 39:27 when I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them from their enemies' lands, and through them have vindicated my holiness in the sight of many nations.
    Eze 39:28 Then they shall know that I am the LORD their God, because I sent them into exile among the nations and then assembled them into their own land. I will leave none of them remaining among the nations anymore.
    Eze 39:29 And I will not hide my face anymore from them, when I pour out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD."

    Seems to speak of the end of the Tribulation and the ushering in of the MK. It matches with Zech 14 I think. The time when Israel is brought back from exile. IOW it hadn't done so at that time. Note also the connection with cleansing the land.
    So I find Eze 39 fits with Rev 19, and Eze 38 goes with Rev 20.

  3. #63

    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    To which I responded and highlighted the following:
    He can't move around, he can't hurt, kill, steal or destroy within God's prison. It isn't his prison, he is not king over it - wherever do you get such a ridiculous notion from?
    There is no person inside that prison, no one else for him to hurt, kill, steal or destroy.
    So when you actually get to grips with the false image you have and bring it in line with scripture and the image God gives then you may progress.
    Let me ask you 1 simple question in response to your 6.
    When God binds something, is it only a little bit bound, or is it properly bound?
    Binding

    You do not seem to understand the figurative usage of the word "bind" (deo) in Scripture. When used in a spiritual context speaking about devils it is never speaking about physical restraint. After all, they are not physical beings. It is talking about a spiritual restraint. When Jesus bound (deo) devils in Scripture did that mean they were unable to move, speak or do injury to anyone or anything else? Of course not!

    King of the pit - now

    Revelation 9:10-11 significantly adds: “they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

    Here we have a king reigning over them called “Abaddon” and “Apollyon.” Here is proof and corroboration that Satan is located in the abyss before the Second Coming not after it as Premils claim.

    Revelation 12 confirms that this victorious scene (described in Revelation 20) relates to Christ’s eternal victory at the cross and His glorious ascent to the throne. A careful comparison of both passages confirms that they closely parallel and perfectly correlate with each other. Revelation 12:9-13 says, speaking of the tremendous ramifications that Calvary had upon Satan, the great dragon was cast out (ballo), that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out (ballo) into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down (ballo), which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

    In this reading we have an explicit outline of the nature and standing of the devil prior to his eviction from his accusing seat in heaven. At that time, he “accused” the elect of God in heaven “before our God day and night.” The accused here were overwhelmingly the Israeli believers – the only country privileged on a national scale with the Gospel. On earth, the devil ruled the Gentile nations unchallenged, deceiving “the whole world” (Revelation 12:9). The Gospel influence was completely curtailed among the nations by “the god of this world” (who is Satan) who “blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them” (2 Corinthians 4:4). The door of opportunity was tightly closed to the Gentile people.

    (1) This is before the cross.
    (2) You are trying to make the abyss a physical prison for demons when in fact it is a spiritual place of restraint for the same. Surely you accept that demons are spiritual beings?
    (3) Revelation 9 describes an abyss that is full of wicked spirits that are restrained, but will be released prior to the Second Coming for a short season. This is something Premils choose to overlook. The abyss is inhabited now with Satan's minions.
    (4) They had a king over them (Abaddon / Apollyon), a ruler who marshalled their hosts. Locusts often, and indeed generally, move in bands, though they do not appear to be under the direction of anyone as a particular ruler or guide. This is Satan - the only king in the kingdom of darkness.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  4. #64
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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    We're all just going to have to face the facts one of these days and accept there is no reasoning with the unreasonable, and just admit it is futile and nothing will ever be gained by trying. when someone is 100% closed-minded about something, they are not going to consider a single thing you say no matter what.
    Okay. I good advice. Thanks.

  5. #65

    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I don;t know why you claim that premil states that the whole world will be tranquility and bliss and Edenic IMMEDIATELY.
    Was this true of you when you became a Christian? Did you immediately stop every kind of sin? Are you always full of bliss and joy? Have you reached perfection already?
    No the Bible paints a picture of a world being restored, but which doesn't reach full restoration until Satan is released and defeated and cast into the Lake of Fire long with all the wicked. Then we will have such bliss. However there will be still a truth that those who are In Him will be in full communion with Christ and so we will have joy of the Lord in this time.
    Scripture depicts the new earth as perfect and pristine. The Premil millennium is a war-torn draconian kingdom where the enemy is being fought and destroyed at every turn. Sin is abounding and fear is on every street. Christ is in supposed control yet the nations go on in their rebellion as if nothing has changed. Frankly, there is no different with your millennium and the day we live in now. It is just a re-run of the intra-Advent period. If Premil was right they would bring the dead saints that have been promoted to heaven and are experiencing the rest and peace of God back to an earth full of hate and horror, sin and death, bitterness and widespread strife. They would have the dead in Christ that have eternally been delivered from the evil of this sin-cursed world with its conflict, unrighteousness and wars right back into the middle of the same.

    the termination of sin/death/all decay occurs at the Second Advent and is referred to in Revelation 21:4-5, which says, “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.”

    It is at His appearing that corruption in all its putrid forms is finally ended. All creation will then once-and-for-all be relieved of every last vestige of distress. On that great impending day there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever” (Revelation 22:3-5).

    The last enemy that shall be destroyed at the Second Coming is death” (1 Corinthians 15:25). Whilst death still exists today, it will be finally eliminated “at the last trump.”

    The dead in Christ tonight are "before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes" (Revelation 7:15-17).

    Premil would have these beloved saints come back down to experience what they have just left. This millennium of supposed bliss and perfection is a millennium of terror and wickedness, death and destruction.

    The redeemed are being brought back to a glorified arrangement greater than the pre-fall state. Notwithstanding, the closest picture of the eternal state that we can find in history is the Garden of Eden. It too was paradise. But even it falls short of the believer’s eternal home. Why? In the Garden Satan was active trying to tempt man; on the new earth there will be no devil to trouble us. Also, man in the Garden had the ability to sin, in eternity he won’t, he will be glorified and made perfect.

    The new earth is cleansed of every impurity and renewed to a glorified state. It will be an earth totally regenerated and eternally free of corruption. Every enemy of God’s perfect righteous order will be finally eliminated with the fiery regeneration of this earth and the final and complete destruction of the wicked at His appearing. Christ is coming to put all things in order, removing everything that is out of order.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  6. #66
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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    Scripture depicts the new earth as perfect and pristine.
    No it doesn't. Being selective as to the parts of Rev 21 & 22 you quote or Isa 65 & 66, just makes you out to lack any objectivity. What it states is that the New Jerusalem is pristine.

  7. #67
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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    Binding

    You do not seem to understand the figurative usage of the word "bind" (deo) in Scripture. When used in a spiritual context speaking about devils it is never speaking about physical restraint. After all, they are not physical beings. It is talking about a spiritual restraint. When Jesus bound (deo) devils in Scripture did that mean they were unable to move, speak or do injury to anyone or anything else? Of course not!
    The figurative is predicated upon the literal. It speaks of restraint - which you don't have. Yes when Jesus bound a devil it was no longer able to harm anyone and was cast OUT of the person. So you have no scriptural support for your view. No grammatical or linguistic support for your view. In fact you are using imagery which doesn't even match that which scripture speaks of because it would show your doctrine to be a crock. Hence your inability to be objective about it.

    King of the pit - now

    Revelation 9:10-11 significantly adds: “they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.”

    Here we have a king reigning over them called “Abaddon” and “Apollyon.” Here is proof and corroboration that Satan is located in the abyss before the Second Coming not after it as Premils claim.
    It does add a number of things. Satan is NOT King of the pit, he is to be a prisoner in the pit. A BIG difference. If you don't realise this then you have a serious problem. The prisoner is NOT the warden.

  8. #68

    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The figurative is predicated upon the literal. It speaks of restraint - which you don't have. Yes when Jesus bound a devil it was no longer able to harm anyone and was cast OUT of the person. So you have no scriptural support for your view. No grammatical or linguistic support for your view. In fact you are using imagery which doesn't even match that which scripture speaks of because it would show your doctrine to be a crock. Hence your inability to be objective about it.
    2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, Revelation 9:1-3 and Revelation 20:2 prove the abyss became the domain of demons after the 1st Coming of Christ. They show the abyss occupied now by Satan's minions, prior to the last trumpet. Revelation 9:11 also shows Satan (Abaddon/Apollyon) there as well. Of course the restrain here cannot be physical. After all, Satan is a spiritual being. He is like a dog on a chain. He cannot stop the Gospel going out to the nations since the cross. He once had that power. How can Premils recognize the restraint of part of the demonic host in the pit but not Satan? You cannot divorce them. Their fate is all tied together.

    The chain refers to the spiritual limitations of Satan’s powers since Christ’s first Advent, just like Paul says the man of the man of lawlessness being "restrained" in in his day after the cross (2 Thessalonians 2:6). Few Bible students have any difficulty accepting the spiritual restraint upon antichrist, and his release prior to the Coming of Christ, yet they get all funny with the binding or restraint of Satan at the same time.


    It does add a number of things. Satan is NOT King of the pit, he is to be a prisoner in the pit. A BIG difference. If you don't realise this then you have a serious problem. The prisoner is NOT the warden.
    He is kingdom over the kingdom of darkness, a kingdom that is retrained since the first resurrection.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  9. #69

    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    No it doesn't. Being selective as to the parts of Rev 21 & 22 you quote or Isa 65 & 66, just makes you out to lack any objectivity. What it states is that the New Jerusalem is pristine.
    Isaiah 65:17-19 says, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

    Does this match up with anywhere in Revelation or anywhere in the New Testament?

    Of course!

    Revelation 21:1-5: “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband … for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

    Have a look and see if you notice any likenesses. This is the same eternal age. Your NHNE is more of the same. In the biblical NHNE everything is made new and perfect and the past corruption and sin, death are gone forever.
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  10. #70
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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    Isaiah 65:17-19 says, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

    Does this match up with anywhere in Revelation or anywhere in the New Testament?

    Of course!

    Revelation 21:1-5: “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband … for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

    Have a look and see if you notice any likenesses. This is the same eternal age. Your NHNE is more of the same. In the biblical NHNE everything is made new and perfect and the past corruption and sin, death are gone forever.
    Indeed the two do match - that wasn't the point I made.
    The point I made is that you ONLY highlight the portion in the NHNE that speaks of bliss and reject the verses that speak of sin, death, children being born, sinners and other things which are not bliss.
    We find the OT prophets speaking of the time when the Kingdom is restored (which has not yet happened and thus is future, so either an MK, or part of the NHNE) has the possibility of people choosing not to worship God, of plagues being sent and of the River of Life bringing life to certain places, but other places being left dead. That is why I said your quotes are selective. You further ignore that this perfection is found IN New Jerusalem, not the world, at least not at the start.

  11. #71
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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, Revelation 9:1-3 and Revelation 20:2 prove the abyss became the domain of demons after the 1st Coming of Christ. They show the abyss occupied now by Satan's minions, prior to the last trumpet. Revelation 9:11 also shows Satan (Abaddon/Apollyon) there as well. Of course the restrain here cannot be physical. After all, Satan is a spiritual being. He is like a dog on a chain. He cannot stop the Gospel going out to the nations since the cross. He once had that power. How can Premils recognize the restraint of part of the demonic host in the pit but not Satan? You cannot divorce them. Their fate is all tied together.
    No those passages don't. They show that the Abyss is no more occupied, than you would say a prisoner occupies a prison. They are chained up, in eternal darkness, they are not ruling, nor exercising any form of rule. I get the impression you have been seriously influenced by Catholic ideas of purgatory and Dante's Inferno.
    The demons don't torture people.
    Satan is NOT like a dog on a chain - that illustration is found nowhere. What scripture says is he is like a prisoner, chained up and cast into a pit. Hence the link I gave you for an Oubliette.
    Those angels in Jude and 2 Peter 2 are not part of Satan's followers. So the problem is entirely of your making.

    The chain refers to the spiritual limitations of Satan’s powers since Christ’s first Advent, just like Paul says the man of the man of lawlessness being "restrained" in in his day after the cross (2 Thessalonians 2:6). Few Bible students have any difficulty accepting the spiritual restraint upon antichrist, and his release prior to the Coming of Christ, yet they get all funny with the binding or restraint of Satan at the same time.
    Actually where is the Man of Sin? Well, we are told he is also known as the AC and the beast. Where does the beast come from? The Abyss. So whilst the beast is restrained he is NOT roaming around or doing anything. When the 5th trumpet is blown then the pit is opened and those in it are released. Until that time, those in the pit CANNOT harm anyone.

    He is kingdom over the kingdom of darkness, a kingdom that is retrained since the first resurrection.
    Who made the Abyss? Who made the Lake of Fire? Who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
    Does God anywhere say that he makes Satan King of anywhere?
    Did you know that there is only one passage in the Bible which suggests that Satan is able to destroy, the rest of the passages in the Bible about him suggests he seeks to destroy, but we are told how limited his ability is. He is no king.
    When you search scripture you find that the destroyer is God. He sends His destroying angel against the Egyptians. That destroying angel follows what God says exactly. There is no connection between these two different angelic beings.

  12. #72

    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    No those passages don't. They show that the Abyss is no more occupied, than you would say a prisoner occupies a prison. They are chained up, in eternal darkness, they are not ruling, nor exercising any form of rule. I get the impression you have been seriously influenced by Catholic ideas of purgatory and Dante's Inferno.
    The demons don't torture people.
    Satan is NOT like a dog on a chain - that illustration is found nowhere. What scripture says is he is like a prisoner, chained up and cast into a pit. Hence the link I gave you for an Oubliette.
    Those angels in Jude and 2 Peter 2 are not part of Satan's followers. So the problem is entirely of your making.


    Actually where is the Man of Sin? Well, we are told he is also known as the AC and the beast. Where does the beast come from? The Abyss. So whilst the beast is restrained he is NOT roaming around or doing anything. When the 5th trumpet is blown then the pit is opened and those in it are released. Until that time, those in the pit CANNOT harm anyone.


    Who made the Abyss? Who made the Lake of Fire? Who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
    Does God anywhere say that he makes Satan King of anywhere?
    Did you know that there is only one passage in the Bible which suggests that Satan is able to destroy, the rest of the passages in the Bible about him suggests he seeks to destroy, but we are told how limited his ability is. He is no king.
    When you search scripture you find that the destroyer is God. He sends His destroying angel against the Egyptians. That destroying angel follows what God says exactly. There is no connection between these two different angelic beings.
    Are there two groups of fallen angels - those in the abyss now and those not?
    Who is king of the kingdom of darkness then?
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

  13. #73

    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Indeed the two do match - that wasn't the point I made.
    The point I made is that you ONLY highlight the portion in the NHNE that speaks of bliss and reject the verses that speak of sin, death, children being born, sinners and other things which are not bliss.
    We find the OT prophets speaking of the time when the Kingdom is restored (which has not yet happened and thus is future, so either an MK, or part of the NHNE) has the possibility of people choosing not to worship God, of plagues being sent and of the River of Life bringing life to certain places, but other places being left dead. That is why I said your quotes are selective. You further ignore that this perfection is found IN New Jerusalem, not the world, at least not at the start.
    When is the bondage of corruption lifted?
    "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).

    http://www.evangelicaltruth.com/

    WPM

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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by wpm View Post
    Are there two groups of fallen angels - those in the abyss now and those not?
    Apparently there must be, because if there isn't, and all of these fallen angels have allegedly been in the pit since the cross up until now, then what spirit beings have been still deceiving men the past 2000 years? Even if in your view the pit is not literal, and that the restraint is simply spiritual, why then isn't it working? It's not like everyone on the planet are no longer being deceived since the cross.

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    Re: 211 reasons to question Premillennialism Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Okay. I good advice. Thanks.
    But don't let that discourage you from discussing these things though. I for one am interested in your perspective on these things and enjoy reading what you post. Just don't expect any Amil to even remotely consider anything you say if it appears to support Premil in any way. No doubt in my mind, even though I haven't encountered every Amil on the planet, the Amils I have encountered, not a single one of them wonders at times if perhaps the Premils could be correct about some of these things. IOW they are not losing an ounce of sleep wondering if there could be something to Premil after all.

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