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Thread: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

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    Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    1. If the rapture occurs at the tail end of the GT and all the righteous gets to be with the Lord, will they still be mortal or immortal?
    2. Isaiah 65And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    3. Will the above occur during the millennial or after?

    4. If Christ judges the sinners at his return and only the saints remain with him, why would there still be sin and death?

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. If the rapture occurs at the tail end of the GT and all the righteous gets to be with the Lord, will they still be mortal or immortal?
    2. Isaiah 65And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    3. Will the above occur during the millennial or after?

    4. If Christ judges the sinners at his return and only the saints remain with him, why would there still be sin and death?
    1. Immortal: Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the sons of God, being the sons of the resurrection.

    3. During the millennial, it's that Kingdom the prophets were prophesying about.

    4. Christ judges the sinners after the millennium, at the GWT.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. If the rapture occurs at the tail end of the GT and all the righteous gets to be with the Lord, will they still be mortal or immortal?
    2. Isaiah 65And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
    3. Will the above occur during the millennial or after?
    4. If Christ judges the sinners at his return and only the saints remain with him, why would there still be sin and death?
    1. Those raptured are immortal.
    2. This speaks of BOTH Jerusalem AND the people who will live during the Millennium. Notice it speaks of sinners, who will not be in the New jerusalem.
    3. During
    4. He doesn't. There is the Matt 25 judgement which occurs AFTER His return, and possible is speaking of the Millennium itself. However the Great White Throne of Judgement is not until the Millennium is over.

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    The gathered (the great multitude of the 7th Seal) are spiritually immortal, will not see spiritual death. They are still on the earth, which is why Satan can war against them.

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by blur1 View Post
    The gathered (the great multitude of the 7th Seal) are spiritually immortal, will not see spiritual death. They are still on the earth, which is why Satan can war against them.

    Satan CANNOT war against them, he is BOUND when people are immortal, that has been stated on this site over and over, no disputing that fact.

    Satan also will NOT war against them during the "little season", he will ATTEMPT to war, but GOD(not Jesus) will send fire and destroy his armies, then destroy him in the lake of fire.

    Again, discussed many times with very little disagreement.

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by hunger and thirst View Post
    Satan CANNOT war against them, he is BOUND when people are immortal, that has been stated on this site over and over, no disputing that fact.

    Satan also will NOT war against them during the "little season", he will ATTEMPT to war, but GOD(not Jesus) will send fire and destroy his armies, then destroy him in the lake of fire.

    Again, discussed many times with very little disagreement.
    Some Christians are spared the hour of trial. that is not the same as proof of them becoming physically immortal... For the non Philadelphian church, Satan is indeed warring upon them.

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. If the rapture occurs at the tail end of the GT and all the righteous gets to be with the Lord, will they still be mortal or immortal?
    The rapture happens only after the GT has ended. The only ones that are raptured are the living saints so they are mortal at first, then are changed into immortal then raptured. Mortals can't breath up where the clouds are so we know the change of bodies must happen just prior to the rapture.


    4. If Christ judges the sinners at his return and only the saints remain with him, why would there still be sin and death?

    The final judgement of all the unsaved does not happen until long after the second coming. Many mortals exist after the second coming and it is they which will be reigned over with a rod of iron by both Christ and his resurrected saints.

    Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
    Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
    Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by hunger and thirst View Post
    Satan CANNOT war against them, he is BOUND when people are immortal, that has been stated on this site over and over, no disputing that fact.

    Satan also will NOT war against them during the "little season", he will ATTEMPT to war, but GOD(not Jesus) will send fire and destroy his armies, then destroy him in the lake of fire.

    Again, discussed many times with very little disagreement.
    blur was talking about what happens during the tribulation not what happens after Satan is released from the pit in Rev 20.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    1. Those raptured are immortal.
    2. This speaks of BOTH Jerusalem AND the people who will live during the Millennium. Notice it speaks of sinners, who will not be in the New jerusalem.
    3. During
    4. He doesn't. There is the Matt 25 judgement which occurs AFTER His return, and possible is speaking of the Millennium itself. However the Great White Throne of Judgement is not until the Millennium is over.
    By your explanation it appears longevity is also extended to sinners, if one who dies at 100 is considered accursed?

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    By your explanation it appears longevity is also extended to sinners, if one who dies at 100 is considered accursed?
    Well consider Genesis. How long did people live?
    If the river of life flows through various lands and the blights of war, famine and disease are removed, then people WILL live longer. This is still not immortality, as Adam and Eve knew.

  11. #11

    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. If the rapture occurs at the tail end of the GT and all the righteous gets to be with the Lord, will they still be mortal or immortal?
    All who are "raptured" will immediately be "immortal"... but this ('the rapture') is not what occurs AT THE END/AFTER the GT.

    The "rapture" occurs BEFORE the 7-yrs, and of the people remaining on the earth after that, MANY will come to faith DURING the tribulation period (and they will enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, which commences upon Christ's 2nd Coming to the earth). If these remain alive to His Second Coming to the earth, they will enter the kingdom in mortal bodies, and "FILL [verb] the whole earth" over time (Daniel 2:35).


    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    2. Isaiah 65And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    3. Will the above occur during the millennial or after?
    During the Millennial Kingdom.

    Children will be born unto the righteous who entered the kingdom in their mortal bodies. The children won't be "born" automatically "righteous". All life will be prolonged (as compared with our current existence), and for most (the common thing) will be to live for that entire 1000 years, as I see it. It is only the rebellious that will "die young" (@ 100 years old, will be considered a youth).


    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    4. If Christ judges the sinners at his return and only the saints remain with him, why would there still be sin and death?
    "The righteous" who will "inherit the kingdom" (at the time of His 2nd Coming to the earth) will still be in mortal bodies (which now will have extended LIFE because "LIFE HIMSELF" will be present there). The children born to them will also have long lives, unless they rebel (at which point, their lives are cut off--these are some of "the dead" which later show up at the GWTJ to be "cast into the lake of fire"-Rev20:12-15--AFTER which point, no more death, for it too will have been "cast into the lake of fire"-v.14).

    "The righteous," in that context ^ (who [still living/mortal] "inherit the kingdom" upon His "return" to the earth), are not the same people who had (PRIOR to that point in time) been "caught UP ['to meet the Lord IN THE AIR']" and been transformed ("like unto His glorious body"), nor are they the same people who will be "resurrected" AFTER the trib (and also not bear children, then).

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    ewq1938;3298702]The rapture happens only after the GT has ended. The only ones that are raptured are the living saints so they are mortal at first, then are changed into immortal then raptured. Mortals can't breath up where the clouds are so we know the change of bodies must happen just prior to the rapture.
    Your explanation above assumes the only mortals on earth at Christ's return will be only sinners? If this scenario is true, it means Christ rules on earth with the raptured 'immortal' saints (now equal to angels or even better) right?) How does it relate to Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed?

    The raptured living in immortality cannot die anymore, so who are v-20 above referring to? If only sinners in mortal bodies are left on earth, why will God care for them to fulfil their life span bearing in mind they are all beyond repentance at this point?.

    The final judgement of all the unsaved does not happen until long after the second coming. Many mortals exist after the second coming and it is they which will be reigned over with a rod of iron by both Christ and his resurrected saints.

    Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
    Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
    Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    Following my view above, when Satan is released after the 1000 years (Rev 20:7) he will make war against the saints but will ultimately be defeated by God. Why would Satan war against immortal souls? Surely, he can only war against flesh and blood and by this time, the only flesh and blood left are the sinners who are already his?

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    All who are "raptured" will immediately be "immortal"... but this ('the rapture') is not what occurs AT THE END/AFTER the GT.

    The "rapture" occurs BEFORE the 7-yrs, and of the people remaining on the earth after that, MANY will come to faith DURING the tribulation period (and they will enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, which commences upon Christ's 2nd Coming to the earth). If these remain alive to His Second Coming to the earth, they will enter the kingdom in mortal bodies, and "FILL [verb] the whole earth" over time (Daniel 2:35).

    During the Millennial Kingdom.

    Children will be born unto the righteous who entered the kingdom in their mortal bodies. The children won't be "born" automatically "righteous". All life will be prolonged (as compared with our current existence), and for most (the common thing) will be to live for that entire 1000 years, as I see it. It is only the rebellious that will "die young" (@ 100 years old, will be considered a youth).

    "The righteous" who will "inherit the kingdom" (at the time of His 2nd Coming to the earth) will still be in mortal bodies (which now will have extended LIFE because "LIFE HIMSELF" will be present there). The children born to them will also have long lives, unless they rebel (at which point, their lives are cut off--these are some of "the dead" which later show up at the GWTJ to be "cast into the lake of fire"-Rev20:12-15--AFTER which point, no more death, for it too will have been "cast into the lake of fire"-v.14).

    "The righteous," in that context ^ (who "inherit the kingdom" upon His "return" to the earth), are not the same people who had (PRIOR to that point in time) been "caught UP ['to meet the Lord IN THE AIR']" and been transformed ("like unto His glorious body"), nor are they the same people who will be "resurrected" AFTER the trib (and also not bear children, then).
    Your remark above stands on the assumption of a Pre-trib Rapture (I'm Post-Trib myself) which cannot be supported by scripture. I mean, if a pre-trib rapture is clear cut scripturally, then everything falls into place per your explanation above, but unfortunately, it doesn't. So there remain unexplainable gaps.

    Several prophesies are unequivocal that the dead will rise first, before the living are raptured. Christ himself painstakingly repeated it 4 times in John 6:39,40,44 and 54. Even Martha got it right when she said she believes her brother Lazarus will resurrect on the last day in John 11:24. Given the above, how does a pre-trib rapture occur 7 years before the Last Day?

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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post

    Several prophesies are unequivocal that the dead will rise first, before the living are raptured. Christ himself painstakingly repeated it 4 times in John 6:39,40,44 and 54. Even Martha got it right when she said she believes her brother Lazarus will resurrect on the last day in John 11:24. Given the above, how does a pre-trib rapture occur 7 years before the Last Day?
    "The last Day" is the "7th Millennium" [not a singular 24-hr day, as you are defining it], and "AT/IN the last Day" is when:

    --v.39 Israel and its associated promises will be "raised up" (see Hosea 5:15-6:3 context: Israel--"to the end that all THAT He has given Me nothing of it shall I lose, but I shall raise it up AT the last day"), ["THAT" is not used to speak of 'individuals']... versus the following verse:

    --v.40 "every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up AT the last day." [this is speaking of individuals who have come to faith in Him (1 Corinthians 15 says "[re: resurrection] but every man IN HIS OWN ORDER" (meaning, there is a sequence to it and we see that when we examine how the 2 Witnesses are resurrected at the 6th Trumpet/2nd Woe, a distinct time period from when others are "resurrected"... etc)]


    Two distinct ideas being conveyed here... but when you compare verse 39 with Hosea 5:15-6:3 and its context (re: Israel), you see that "IN the THIRD DAY" (since Christ's 1st advent) is "WHEN" Israel will "live in His sight" (and THAT is not a momentary 24-hr day, but the entire promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, promised TO ISRAEL).

    This is that "LAST Day" (the 7th Day/sabbatismos--"It [the 7th day/sabbath] is a SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever..."--Exodus 31:17 [also v.13])



    Hosea 5:15-6:3 -

    15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

    6:1 Come, and let us [Israel] return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us [Israel]; he hath smitten, and he will bind us [Israel] up.

    2 After two days will he revive us [Israel]: IN the third day he will raise us [Israel] up, and we [Israel] shall live in his sight.

    3 Then shall we [Israel] know, if we [Israel] follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us [Israel] as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
    [some versions just say "latter/spring rain unto the earth" (not adding "former/fall")]


    This correlates with:

    Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. ["and He shall shepherd [G4165] them..." Rev19:15; Rev7:17 same word there ([G4165 "feed"] see also Isaiah 49:10 in correlation to this passage)]

    24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

    25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

    26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.



    [Verse 26 ^ refers to the "BLESSEDness" of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon Christ's Second Coming to the earth (aka "the wedding supper/feast" aka "the kingdom of the heavens" [on the earth])--Matthew 25:34 "blessed"; Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "blessed"; Daniel 12:12 "blessed"; Revelation 19:9 "blessed"; Mark 11:10 "blessed"; Matthew 23:39 "blessed" [when "Jerusalem" shall say this]; Matthew 5:5,10 "blessed"; etc]


    Job also spoke of it (Job 19:25), as I see it [esp. in light of v.26 of Job 19 too], "
    For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" [not merely a singular 24-hr day, but for His entire reign].

    [inserting this: see also Psalm 72:6 in light of the entire passage of Psalm 72 ("kingly reign" [and v.17 "blessed"])--and also 1 Timothy 6:15 "future" ("which IN HIS TIMES He shall [future] shew [openly manifest]..." (one of only TWO times "King" is used in all of the epistles, and it is referring to "future")]

    THIS is how we need to "define" the phrase "the Last Day" (and the phrase "AT/IN the last day" in light of that), and it starts at "DARK"/sundown, the evening before, just as all 'days' (in Scripture, especially having to do with Israel) do.



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    Re: Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Your explanation above assumes the only mortals on earth at Christ's return will be only sinners? If this scenario is true, it means Christ rules on earth with the raptured 'immortal' saints (
    Yes that is exactly what happens.


    How does it relate to Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed?
    I think God is using language that people of the day could understand as being a prosperous time of health etc. Naturally after the resurrection and the change of bodies at the 2nd coming, none of the righteous will age or die or be children. Only the enemy nations will be mortal after the return of Christ, and they are ruled over by Christ and the saints with a rod of iron. After that reign, they are no longer ruled by the rod of iron and Satan deceives them into forming an army and then those mortals will be slain by fire.


    The raptured living in immortality cannot die anymore, so who are v-20 above referring to? If only sinners in mortal bodies are left on earth, why will God care for them to fulfil their life span bearing in mind they are all beyond repentance at this point?.
    They are not beyond repentance. And I explained above that it's likely not a reference to them.

    Additionally, Daniel speaks of sinners having "their lives prolonged" at this same time frame so the mortals are able to live through the 1000 years of Rev 20.


    Following my view above, when Satan is released after the 1000 years (Rev 20:7) he will make war against the saints but will ultimately be defeated by God. Why would Satan war against immortal souls? Surely, he can only war against flesh and blood and by this time, the only flesh and blood left are the sinners who are already his?
    He fought a war against heavenly angels also. Seems doomed to fail but maybe he is insane?
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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