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Thread: Why do miracles not happen today?

  1. #1
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    Why do miracles not happen today?

    I have heard stories of miracles. Some seem genuine, some seem rather obvious as parlor tricks. I have personally experienced at least one life-or-death situation, which I can only describe as a miracle because obviously I'm still here. So why would I ask such a silly question? Mostly because I still see the question being asked of others. Often times the question appears in the form of why we do not have "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in today's day and age. (A gift from the Holy Spirit is indeed a miracle, because how else would you explain it?)

    But why do some see them, and others do not? Why do gifts of the Holy Spirit seem to be so random?

    To a skeptical nation such as this, who relies on data that can be analyzed to predict the future, perhaps it is to leave some hearts hardened because they wouldn't believe anyway? To a sinful and backslidden nation such as this, who relies on reinterpretation until it means whatever we want it to, perhaps it is because of a lack of faith?

    Perhaps there is yet another explanation to throw in there: God doesn't want people to commit the unpardonable sin? "The" unpardonable sin, because as far as anyone knows, there is only one sin that humans can commit and not be forgiven of. Mathew chapter 12 goes over what this sin is, and so it is labeled as "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". But what exactly is that?

    Looking at the example in Matthew ch12, it seems to be that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when a miracle happens in the presence of someone, and it is attributed to Lucifer. This is exactly what the Pharisees did. Jesus cast out a demon, and the Pharisees attributed that power Jesus wielded to Beelzebub, the prince of the demons. In fact later on in the chapter, Jesus goes on to lecture them about Jonas and the queen of Sheba. Basically how if the same miracles had happened in Nineveh as they saw them there at that time, the people of Nineveh would have called the Pharisees idiots, and that's probably being too kind.

    But we're warned: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," - 2nd Thessalonians ch2 v9.
    Yet we're told: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans ch13 v1.
    And Job says: "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his." - Job ch12 v16.

    Perhaps some don't see bonafide miracles, because God knows they'd attribute them to Satan?
    But how do we differentiate the genuine from the malignant?
    Are we to say nothing at all: How else do we avoid committing this unpardonable sin if we witness a miracle, otherwise?
    Are we not obligated to warn people when the signs and lying wonders take place, or are these miracles also under the power of God?

    I have to wonder, though:
    Is attributing a genuine miracle of the Holy Spirit to some explainable, natural cause... The same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as in attributing the miracle to Satan? Or is this sin so specific, it can only happen one way, so that God only allows it to happen under explicit/strict circumstances?
    John 10 (KJV)
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    I have heard stories of miracles. Some seem genuine, some seem rather obvious as parlor tricks. I have personally experienced at least one life-or-death situation, which I can only describe as a miracle because obviously I'm still here. So why would I ask such a silly question? Mostly because I still see the question being asked of others. Often times the question appears in the form of why we do not have "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in today's day and age. (A gift from the Holy Spirit is indeed a miracle, because how else would you explain it?)

    But why do some see them, and others do not? Why do gifts of the Holy Spirit seem to be so random?

    To a skeptical nation such as this, who relies on data that can be analyzed to predict the future, perhaps it is to leave some hearts hardened because they wouldn't believe anyway? To a sinful and backslidden nation such as this, who relies on reinterpretation until it means whatever we want it to, perhaps it is because of a lack of faith?

    Perhaps there is yet another explanation to throw in there: God doesn't want people to commit the unpardonable sin? "The" unpardonable sin, because as far as anyone knows, there is only one sin that humans can commit and not be forgiven of. Mathew chapter 12 goes over what this sin is, and so it is labeled as "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". But what exactly is that?

    Looking at the example in Matthew ch12, it seems to be that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when a miracle happens in the presence of someone, and it is attributed to Lucifer. This is exactly what the Pharisees did. Jesus cast out a demon, and the Pharisees attributed that power Jesus wielded to Beelzebub, the prince of the demons. In fact later on in the chapter, Jesus goes on to lecture them about Jonas and the queen of Sheba. Basically how if the same miracles had happened in Nineveh as they saw them there at that time, the people of Nineveh would have called the Pharisees idiots, and that's probably being too kind.

    But we're warned: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," - 2nd Thessalonians ch2 v9.
    Yet we're told: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans ch13 v1.
    And Job says: "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his." - Job ch12 v16.

    Perhaps some don't see bonafide miracles, because God knows they'd attribute them to Satan?
    But how do we differentiate the genuine from the malignant?
    Are we to say nothing at all: How else do we avoid committing this unpardonable sin if we witness a miracle, otherwise?
    Are we not obligated to warn people when the signs and lying wonders take place, or are these miracles also under the power of God?

    I have to wonder, though:
    Is attributing a genuine miracle of the Holy Spirit to some explainable, natural cause... The same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as in attributing the miracle to Satan? Or is this sin so specific, it can only happen one way, so that God only allows it to happen under explicit/strict circumstances?
    Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
    2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
    3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
    4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
    5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
    6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
    7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
    8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
    9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
    10 And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
    11 And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.

    It seems to me that perhaps some folks don't realize how profound this miracle/healing was. Some points to note.

    1..lame from his mother's womb

    2..was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple

    3...Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

    4...he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up

    5...and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

    6...he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.


    I have heard of alleged healings these days where some have been in wheelchairs and then were able to get out of them and walk. But they would take small steps at a time and that it would take even more time, perhaps even months before their feet and ankle bones received satisfactory strength, etc. But when comparing that to the above passage, this man hadn't walked a second in his entire life, and not only moments later was he walking as if he had been walking his entire life, he was also leaping. That's what I have to compare with in regards to alleged miracles/healings these days. If anyone knows of a miracle/healing similar to this, I would be interested in hearing about it since only the Spirit of God would be able to successfully perform a miracle/healing like above, meaning within mere moments the person is 100% healed, and not partially where more time is needed for the person to get up to 100%. Am I raising the bar too high by comparing to the above? I wouldn't think so, but others likely might.

  3. #3
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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    I have heard stories of miracles. Some seem genuine, some seem rather obvious as parlor tricks. I have personally experienced at least one life-or-death situation, which I can only describe as a miracle because obviously I'm still here. So why would I ask such a silly question? Mostly because I still see the question being asked of others. Often times the question appears in the form of why we do not have "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in today's day and age. (A gift from the Holy Spirit is indeed a miracle, because how else would you explain it?)

    But why do some see them, and others do not? Why do gifts of the Holy Spirit seem to be so random?

    To a skeptical nation such as this, who relies on data that can be analyzed to predict the future, perhaps it is to leave some hearts hardened because they wouldn't believe anyway? To a sinful and backslidden nation such as this, who relies on reinterpretation until it means whatever we want it to, perhaps it is because of a lack of faith?

    Perhaps there is yet another explanation to throw in there: God doesn't want people to commit the unpardonable sin? "The" unpardonable sin, because as far as anyone knows, there is only one sin that humans can commit and not be forgiven of. Mathew chapter 12 goes over what this sin is, and so it is labeled as "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". But what exactly is that?

    Looking at the example in Matthew ch12, it seems to be that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when a miracle happens in the presence of someone, and it is attributed to Lucifer. This is exactly what the Pharisees did. Jesus cast out a demon, and the Pharisees attributed that power Jesus wielded to Beelzebub, the prince of the demons. In fact later on in the chapter, Jesus goes on to lecture them about Jonas and the queen of Sheba. Basically how if the same miracles had happened in Nineveh as they saw them there at that time, the people of Nineveh would have called the Pharisees idiots, and that's probably being too kind.

    But we're warned: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," - 2nd Thessalonians ch2 v9.
    Yet we're told: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans ch13 v1.
    And Job says: "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his." - Job ch12 v16.

    Perhaps some don't see bonafide miracles, because God knows they'd attribute them to Satan?
    But how do we differentiate the genuine from the malignant?
    Are we to say nothing at all: How else do we avoid committing this unpardonable sin if we witness a miracle, otherwise?
    Are we not obligated to warn people when the signs and lying wonders take place, or are these miracles also under the power of God?

    I have to wonder, though:
    Is attributing a genuine miracle of the Holy Spirit to some explainable, natural cause... The same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as in attributing the miracle to Satan? Or is this sin so specific, it can only happen one way, so that God only allows it to happen under explicit/strict circumstances?
    If all the occurrences of signs/wonders/miracles throughout the world could be consolidated like we see recorded from Matthew - John and all the Letters and Epistles... we'd realize that the Holy Spirit is AS active today, as He is over the years covered during the above mentioned books of the Bible.

    I also feel, no... know, that satan is able to deceive many in the Body when he is imitating s/w/m because so many in the Body are undiscipled and don't or can't discern properly through testing and/or utilizing the Gifts of the Holy Spirit to discern/identify/discriminate what is of God (Holy Spirit - real deal), or of flesh (spirit of man - FAKE), or of satan (imitation supernatural s/w/m - real but NOT of God).
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  4. #4

    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Will post some ideas and opinions...

    Gifts.

    Maybe the Holy Spirit won't distributes the gifts of the spirit :
    To those who don't believe in them?
    To those who have no interest in them?

    The Holy spirit might distribute the gifts different to those in ministry, who hold office, the working and administration of the gift - than just a believer not in full time ministry?


    Miracles.

    Miracles, the working of miracles is a gift of the spirit. Possibly we only see the workings of this gift, through who the Holy spirit gives the gift according to the will of the spirit.

    (1 Cor 12:10 KJV) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:


    (1 Cor 12:28 KJV) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    ::

    (1 Cor 12:29 KJV) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

    (1 Cor 12:30 KJV) Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

    (1 Cor 12:31 KJV) But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.


    Miracles: G4592. semeion, say-mi'-on; neut. of a presumed der. of the base of G4591; an indication, espec. cer. or supernat.:--miracle, sign, token, wonder. (see John 12:37)

    Miracles H1411. dunamis, doo'-nam-is; from G1410; force (lit. or fig.); spec. miraculous power (usually by impl. a miracle itself):--ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work. (see Acts 2:22)


    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    I have heard stories of miracles. Some seem genuine, some seem rather obvious as parlor tricks. I have personally experienced at least one life-or-death situation, which I can only describe as a miracle because obviously I'm still here. So why would I ask such a silly question? Mostly because I still see the question being asked of others. Often times the question appears in the form of why we do not have "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in today's day and age. (A gift from the Holy Spirit is indeed a miracle, because how else would you explain it?)

    But why do some see them, and others do not? Why do gifts of the Holy Spirit seem to be so random?

    To a skeptical nation such as this, who relies on data that can be analyzed to predict the future, perhaps it is to leave some hearts hardened because they wouldn't believe anyway? To a sinful and backslidden nation such as this, who relies on reinterpretation until it means whatever we want it to, perhaps it is because of a lack of faith?

    Perhaps there is yet another explanation to throw in there: God doesn't want people to commit the unpardonable sin? "The" unpardonable sin, because as far as anyone knows, there is only one sin that humans can commit and not be forgiven of. Mathew chapter 12 goes over what this sin is, and so it is labeled as "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". But what exactly is that?

    Looking at the example in Matthew ch12, it seems to be that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when a miracle happens in the presence of someone, and it is attributed to Lucifer. This is exactly what the Pharisees did. Jesus cast out a demon, and the Pharisees attributed that power Jesus wielded to Beelzebub, the prince of the demons. In fact later on in the chapter, Jesus goes on to lecture them about Jonas and the queen of Sheba. Basically how if the same miracles had happened in Nineveh as they saw them there at that time, the people of Nineveh would have called the Pharisees idiots, and that's probably being too kind.

    But we're warned: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," - 2nd Thessalonians ch2 v9.
    Yet we're told: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans ch13 v1.
    And Job says: "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his." - Job ch12 v16.

    Perhaps some don't see bonafide miracles, because God knows they'd attribute them to Satan?
    But how do we differentiate the genuine from the malignant?
    Are we to say nothing at all: How else do we avoid committing this unpardonable sin if we witness a miracle, otherwise?
    Are we not obligated to warn people when the signs and lying wonders take place, or are these miracles also under the power of God?

    I have to wonder, though:
    Is attributing a genuine miracle of the Holy Spirit to some explainable, natural cause... The same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as in attributing the miracle to Satan? Or is this sin so specific, it can only happen one way, so that God only allows it to happen under explicit/strict circumstances?

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    John 11King James Version (KJV)

    4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    I have heard stories of miracles. Some seem genuine, some seem rather obvious as parlor tricks. I have personally experienced at least one life-or-death situation, which I can only describe as a miracle because obviously I'm still here. So why would I ask such a silly question? Mostly because I still see the question being asked of others. Often times the question appears in the form of why we do not have "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in today's day and age. (A gift from the Holy Spirit is indeed a miracle, because how else would you explain it?)

    But why do some see them, and others do not? Why do gifts of the Holy Spirit seem to be so random?

    To a skeptical nation such as this, who relies on data that can be analyzed to predict the future, perhaps it is to leave some hearts hardened because they wouldn't believe anyway? To a sinful and backslidden nation such as this, who relies on reinterpretation until it means whatever we want it to, perhaps it is because of a lack of faith?

    Perhaps there is yet another explanation to throw in there: God doesn't want people to commit the unpardonable sin? "The" unpardonable sin, because as far as anyone knows, there is only one sin that humans can commit and not be forgiven of. Mathew chapter 12 goes over what this sin is, and so it is labeled as "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". But what exactly is that?

    Looking at the example in Matthew ch12, it seems to be that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when a miracle happens in the presence of someone, and it is attributed to Lucifer. This is exactly what the Pharisees did. Jesus cast out a demon, and the Pharisees attributed that power Jesus wielded to Beelzebub, the prince of the demons. In fact later on in the chapter, Jesus goes on to lecture them about Jonas and the queen of Sheba. Basically how if the same miracles had happened in Nineveh as they saw them there at that time, the people of Nineveh would have called the Pharisees idiots, and that's probably being too kind.

    But we're warned: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," - 2nd Thessalonians ch2 v9.
    Yet we're told: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans ch13 v1.
    And Job says: "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his." - Job ch12 v16.

    Perhaps some don't see bonafide miracles, because God knows they'd attribute them to Satan?
    But how do we differentiate the genuine from the malignant?
    Are we to say nothing at all: How else do we avoid committing this unpardonable sin if we witness a miracle, otherwise?
    Are we not obligated to warn people when the signs and lying wonders take place, or are these miracles also under the power of God?

    I have to wonder, though:
    Is attributing a genuine miracle of the Holy Spirit to some explainable, natural cause... The same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as in attributing the miracle to Satan? Or is this sin so specific, it can only happen one way, so that God only allows it to happen under explicit/strict circumstances?
    Ceegan, do you listen to KLOVE radio? Each day they have a segment called, The Encouraging Story of the Day. Listen to it and I will bet that if you were to count all the recorded s/w/m in the NT and get the total number of them... in 6 months to a year, you will hear testimony of s/w/m from Christians that will equal (at least) the number of s/w/m recorded. Now, in John 20 (? I think) John mentions that Jesus did more than was ever recorded in his Gospel... so there is always margin for error

    Anyway... in a year, should you reach = number... don't forget that the Bible does record s/w/m for about 30+ years and while I'm sure not all were recorded, the point is that God is doing major supernatural work out there in the world.

    Besides, if you did listen to KLOVE for that year and heard all 365 Encouraging Stories for a year... the total of examples would only be a tiny blip of the overall s/w/m throughout the world.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    God saved me, a condemned sinner. If that is not a miracle, I don't know what is.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    God saved me, a condmend sinner. If that is not a miracle, I don't know what is.
    I don't think any Christian in the course of history would deny it either
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Don't know what KLOVE is and not sure if we get it here in Maine, but where I live there are like... Four or five radio stations? Two of them in French?

    Think you guys missed some of my questions though. I'm not asking rhetorical questions, and I know miracles do happen. I'm not doubting miracles at all, I'm asking why more people aren't seeing them.
    John 10 (KJV)
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Probably most miracles we aren't even aware of.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    I have heard stories of miracles. Some seem genuine, some seem rather obvious as parlor tricks. I have personally experienced at least one life-or-death situation, which I can only describe as a miracle because obviously I'm still here. So why would I ask such a silly question? Mostly because I still see the question being asked of others. Often times the question appears in the form of why we do not have "gifts of the Holy Spirit" in today's day and age. (A gift from the Holy Spirit is indeed a miracle, because how else would you explain it?)

    But why do some see them, and others do not? Why do gifts of the Holy Spirit seem to be so random?

    To a skeptical nation such as this, who relies on data that can be analyzed to predict the future, perhaps it is to leave some hearts hardened because they wouldn't believe anyway? To a sinful and backslidden nation such as this, who relies on reinterpretation until it means whatever we want it to, perhaps it is because of a lack of faith?

    Perhaps there is yet another explanation to throw in there: God doesn't want people to commit the unpardonable sin? "The" unpardonable sin, because as far as anyone knows, there is only one sin that humans can commit and not be forgiven of. Mathew chapter 12 goes over what this sin is, and so it is labeled as "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". But what exactly is that?

    Looking at the example in Matthew ch12, it seems to be that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when a miracle happens in the presence of someone, and it is attributed to Lucifer. This is exactly what the Pharisees did. Jesus cast out a demon, and the Pharisees attributed that power Jesus wielded to Beelzebub, the prince of the demons. In fact later on in the chapter, Jesus goes on to lecture them about Jonas and the queen of Sheba. Basically how if the same miracles had happened in Nineveh as they saw them there at that time, the people of Nineveh would have called the Pharisees idiots, and that's probably being too kind.

    But we're warned: "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," - 2nd Thessalonians ch2 v9.
    Yet we're told: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans ch13 v1.
    And Job says: "With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his." - Job ch12 v16.

    Perhaps some don't see bonafide miracles, because God knows they'd attribute them to Satan?
    But how do we differentiate the genuine from the malignant?
    Are we to say nothing at all: How else do we avoid committing this unpardonable sin if we witness a miracle, otherwise?
    Are we not obligated to warn people when the signs and lying wonders take place, or are these miracles also under the power of God?

    I have to wonder, though:
    Is attributing a genuine miracle of the Holy Spirit to some explainable, natural cause... The same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as in attributing the miracle to Satan? Or is this sin so specific, it can only happen one way, so that God only allows it to happen under explicit/strict circumstances?
    No, this is the equivalent of saying if you slip up and make a mistake, saying the wrong word, you'll be damned! God isn't like that. It's true that we can slip up and make some very serious mistakes with dire consequences. For example, Moses slipped up and hit a rock in anger, and lost his opportunity to walk into the Promised Land! The Israeli spies slipped up and expressed doubt that they could enter the Promised Land, and the entire nation was condemned to spend the next 40 years in the Wilderness! Peter slipped up and said Jesus should not have to die, and he was condemned to deny Christ thrice! Clearly, we can slip up and make apparently small mistakes, and pay great consequences!

    On the other hand, maybe these little slip ups are not so "little" after all? Maybe Moses' anger had been simmering underneath for years, as he endured the nation's problems? Maybe Peter had stepped across the line with Jesus, his Master, after many months of questioning Jesus' theology of suffering and "peaceful resistance?" Maybe Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit after living many months on the "sloppy" side of agape? Big consequences tend to follow serious errors, even if they seem small or "unintended."

    But the claim that Jesus was demon-possessed was no slight mistake. It was an eternal choice to reject the spiritual side of Jesus, which is the side that brings us righteousness and salvation, love and mercy. To reject this is to reject the only thing God has to bring us in the form of life and peace! It is no mistake--rather, it is inherent revulsion at something that is essentially good. Why people do this is unknown, but it does happen.

    As to the question of miracles, I absolutely believe they happen. But if they were normal or usual they would not be miracles. Jesus made them seem "normal," but actually they only took place by him and by his immediate disciples. I do think this was a special time in which the Holy Spirit "anointed" Jesus as the Savior, and proved him to be sent by God. And although I think the Church carries forward the ministry of miracles it still is not "usual." It takes place only by established and called ministries determined by the Holy Spirit Himself. And they are not miracles "on demand." They take place in accordance with determining the will of God in each situation.

    I do believe that miracles proliferate at certain times in a nation's history, and not at all times. Nations fall and rise. They fail, and then sometimes they are restored. When there is a spiritual restoration you may be more likely to see miracles. However, in Jesus' day both were happening--Israel as a nation was falling, and a small remnant was being restored. So miracles proliferated. In darker times, when there is very little restoration, there are very few miracles, eg few miracles were done in Nazareth.

    Those in Christian ministries today who are gifted in healing often have bad doctrine. They think they can heal "on demand," and so appear to be charlatans when they claim everybody is healed, and there is no documented evidence to this effect. I don't believe this means no miracles are taking place. They are, and they can be documented. But you are more likely to find them outside of these healing ministries because of the confusion surrounding "Faith Doctrine." I accept Faith Teaching, but I reject Faith Doctrine. I reject a doctrine that *guarantees* healing to all Christians by *formula.* It doesn't work, period. But is Faith real, and do Healings take place? Yes. Pray, and you will see results of some kind. God is real, and He responds to our sincere prayers. But He will always answer in the way He sees best.

  12. #12
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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    Don't know what KLOVE is and not sure if we get it here in Maine, but where I live there are like... Four or five radio stations? Two of them in French?

    Think you guys missed some of my questions though. I'm not asking rhetorical questions, and I know miracles do happen. I'm not doubting miracles at all, I'm asking why more people aren't seeing them.
    Well... one of the main reasons is because some in the Body today teach that s/w/m have ended after the last Apostle died. So to them, anything supernatural in nature can't be God because they discern all supernatural occurrences via their doctrine. So any testimony, they will determine is of man or the devil. So, that portion of the Body will most likely never have God move in a supernatural manner. Then they will do what they can to destroy the testimony God gives to others in the Body when He glorifies Himself by giving a prophetic word, or healing someone etc.

    So... since this results in God loosing glory... God may only be empowering small (tiny) portions of the Body where He can work freely, all are obedient and when God does move supernaturally, God receives all the glory.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I have heard of alleged healings these days where some have been in wheelchairs and then were able to get out of them and walk. But they would take small steps at a time and that it would take even more time, perhaps even months before their feet and ankle bones received satisfactory strength, etc. But when comparing that to the above passage, this man hadn't walked a second in his entire life, and not only moments later was he walking as if he had been walking his entire life, he was also leaping. That's what I have to compare with in regards to alleged miracles/healings these days. If anyone knows of a miracle/healing similar to this, I would be interested in hearing about it since only the Spirit of God would be able to successfully perform a miracle/healing like above, meaning within mere moments the person is 100% healed, and not partially where more time is needed for the person to get up to 100%. Am I raising the bar too high by comparing to the above? I wouldn't think so, but others likely might.
    Bar too high? No indeed. Take it up a notch. Take a man beaten to a pulp and both legs broken in so many places he could not even crawl and had to be carried to the bathroom. Then put him a maximum security prison. Now you have a true miracle when he hears the Lord say go and then stands up and walks out of the prison through 6 iron gates to his freedom. Get Heavenly Man by Brother Yun. It is a book you will not regret. It is so good that the miracles are not even the main point of the book. You wont be able to put it down as a Christian.

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    Don't know what KLOVE is and not sure if we get it here in Maine, but where I live there are like... Four or five radio stations? Two of them in French?

    Think you guys missed some of my questions though. I'm not asking rhetorical questions, and I know miracles do happen. I'm not doubting miracles at all, I'm asking why more people aren't seeing them.
    Two things.
    One, why didn't people SEE them when Jesus was doing them? The saw, but didn't see, if you know what I mean. Miracles don't really build faith as much you'd think. Take the 5000 who got the free lunch from Jesus. All bailed on Him but the 12.
    Two, Jesus said a wicked generation asks for a sign. I honestly never understood that until I read Heavenly Man by Brother Yun. As a Christian, I would strongly recommend getting and reading it. If you like the book of Acts, you will love it. It is a modern day version which has been recorded and attested too by all involved. Get the book! Audible.com has it if you'd rather listen to it.

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    Re: Why do miracles not happen today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Bar too high? No indeed. Take it up a notch. Take a man beaten to a pulp and both legs broken in so many places he could not even crawl and had to be carried to the bathroom. Then put him a maximum security prison. Now you have a true miracle when he hears the Lord say go and then stands up and walks out of the prison through 6 iron gates to his freedom. Get Heavenly Man by Brother Yun. It is a book you will not regret. It is so good that the miracles are not even the main point of the book. You wont be able to put it down as a Christian.
    I've prayed over the leg of a person who had fallen and strained their knee and there was an dark bruising along the side of the knee. I never saw the person leave that night but met them the next day... they were praising God because the pain and bruise were gone.

    Now the same God who healed only a painful and bruised knee also healed all the injuries of the man in the book you mentioned... both miracles are equal in value. Man does seem to place wrong value upon God.

    If a person has a splinter and instead of pulling it out, they pray and the splinter vanishes and the spot where it was, is healed... is the same value as praying over a person dying of cancer and has days to live and God heals them.

    Its just too easy to allow our flesh to "rate" what is a miracle compared from one to another and actually determine one isn't a "real" miracle because only a splinter and cut was healed compared to something that seems worse. To God... one is not worse than the other, either are His means to glorify Himself by healing either person.

    Is this the book?

    The Heavenly Man: The Remarkable True Story of Chinese Christian Brother Yun

    I just saved it to my Amazon wish list.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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